Parking vs camping....

[Guest]

Here is an interesting post I gleaned from an rving boondocker's blog. George has been boondocking in the US and in mexico for the last few years...he rarely has laid for a nights sleep and rarely uses a parking lot like Walmart or a truck stop.<br><br>"Yesterday morning while MsTioga and I were at Marina Park in the City of Ventura, a policeman came around. &nbsp;I exited MsTioga, closed the door behind me and talked to the officer.<br> <br> Officer: &nbsp;A&nbsp;homeowner complained that a tan motorhome had camped here overnite. <br> George: &nbsp;I did not camp here last nite.<br> Officer: &nbsp;When did you arrive here?<br> George: &nbsp;7:30 this morning.<br> Officer: &nbsp;It is not legal to camp here at any time during the day.<br> George: &nbsp;I am not camping.<br> Officer: &nbsp;What are you doing?<br> George: &nbsp;Parking.<br> <br> This conversation between myself and the officer contains much of what goes on between police and an RVer who is living a life out on the road. &nbsp;As an RVer, I must be aware of the law and how to respond to police in order to stay out of trouble. &nbsp;In a situation such as this, it is my responsibility to determine what I am doing when there is a question of camping or parking.<br> <br> The reason that I close MsTioga's door when a police officer is present is because I do not want the officer to gain any access to MsTioga's interior. &nbsp;When the officer asked to see identification, I went inside to get my drivers license and closed the door behind me. &nbsp;If I left the door open, the officer would have an opportunity to stick his head inside and possibly detect the odor of cooked food from my breakfast. &nbsp; Is cooking a camping activity? &nbsp;You get the picture."<br><br>Bri<br> <br>

 

[cyndi]

<FONT size=3>One can learn an awful lot from <A href="http://vagabonders-supreme.net/" target=_blank><b>George, Ms. Tioga and the other characters</b></A> with whom George travels.&nbsp; There's a lot&nbsp;of wisdom (life lessons, education and&nbsp;humor among other things), there.</FONT><br><FONT size=3></FONT>&nbsp;<br><FONT size=3>"I'm not camping, I'm parking," is a&nbsp;wonderful response to remember!&nbsp; Along with closing the door behind, you.</FONT><br>

 

[beemerchef]

I met George about 3 years back in OR. Every day is a learning curve as "people" just cannot "let other People" be... Of course I was in a tent but now trailering with an ECamper the learning curve again surfaces. <br>What I have done often instead of putting up tent is just use my bevy bag, Spirit sleeps in the sidecar and if woken up I go with the concept that I was tired, I have a medical condition (Spirit is a Service Dog) and better to sleep under this awning than for you to scrape me off the ground. It has worked... It is so much the "instant" relationship with the officer, attitude, ways of speaking and so forth... even a bit what one is wearing!<br><br>Be well, always.<br><br>Ara &amp; Spirit<br><br><A href="http://www.theoasisofmysoul.com" target=_blank>www.theoasisofmysoul.com</A><br>

 

[Seraphim]

It's important you know the laws of the particular community you are in. Not all of them seem reasonable, but generally communities have them for their own particular reasons, and you may not be aware of those reasons. What is acceptable in one community is often not acceptable in another. People passing through an area, living in vans, are generally not considered part of the community. They are - in general - feared. The residents know nothing about you personally, so they rely on the police to check you out. They call. The police generally don't care if you're not being a problem, but they have a legal requirement to enforce the community's laws.

Laws are generally clearly written. We have park with an amphitheater. It's trespassing for anyone to be on the stage unless performing in a city scheduled event. Seems strange, but there are concealed areas behind the stage where it was easy for drug activities to occur without being seen. Since the culprits were.difficult to catch (they'd toss contraband before the could be seen with it) the entire stage was made off limits. The law also cut down the cost of repairing vandalism in that area.

Just watch yourselves. Cops generally don't want to search you vehicles unless they think you are up to something illegal. Just be honest with them. They'll generally cut you some slack in that case as long as you're not a danger, an obvious criminal causing problems, or doing something so blatantly against the law they're forced to take enforcement action.

Don't take them for idiots either, just because they overlook the smell of cooking food, either, or the heat coming from the vents lol. Any cop worth his salt knows the local laws sufficiently well to find something, if they wish. Especially in a park, which generally has more rigid rules. They generally don't want to waste
their time with trivial matters, unless forced to. Generally, they're pretty understanding people.

 

[beemerchef]

Well said Seraphim... <br><br>Ara &amp; Spirit<br><br><A href="http://www.theoasisofmysoul.com" target=_blank>www.theoasisofmysoul.com</A><br>

 

[WanderingRonin]

Ara and Spirit... you are my inspiration!!!<div><br></div>

 

[High Plains Drifter]

In this small town in northern Missouri, I was checked by a uniformed officer four nights ago. I sit in front of the old court house square to get public internet. He drove across the road into an alley behind some buildings to circle behind me.&nbsp;<img src="https://vanlivingforum.com/images/boards/smilies/sneaky.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0"> He drove up behind me, turned on his lights and walked over and he introduced his self and said he was with the local police department. I told him, you look like a police officer <img src="https://vanlivingforum.com/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0"> I showed him that I was on the computer. He was a nice person and he did not even ask for my drivers license or anything. Told him that I thought it would be safe there and he said yes but you have to watch the cops. I told him, yeah those darn cops. <img src="https://vanlivingforum.com/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0"><br>

 

[romani10]

I find it so much easier to boondock, don't like cities.

 

[Seraphim]

All land is owned by someone -not getting philosophical here, just legal
Lol - and 'no trespassing' signs are not required in Ohio. You step on property without prior permission you're trespassing.

There's always one landowner who wants people prosecuted. You never know which one that will be.

 

[Seraphim]

The reason that I close MsTioga's door when a police officer is present is because I do not want the officer to gain any access to MsTioga's interior. When the officer asked to see identification, I went inside to get my drivers license and closed the door behind me. If I left the door open, the officer would have an opportunity to stick his head inside and possibly detect the odor of
cooked food from my breakfast. Is cooking a camping activity? You get the picture."

Yes, we got the picture. Most people would probably concur cooking is a camping activity. You were attempting to circumnavigate a law. No judgement, just a statement.

But, DEPENDING ON THE STATE, when a motor vehicle is occupied, an officer may, for his own safety, have the legal right to search the area immediately around the occupant for any concealed weapons - generally limited to arms reach of the occupant. By entering a MOTOR VEHICLE, you may have just given him permission for a limited entry. He probably also has the right to insist you keep the door open. Again, it's a motor vehicle, not a house. This situation has been argued successfully in the courts for years. Know what's what in your state.

You get the picture.

Keep your ID in your pocket.

 

[Seraphim]

My wife was stopped for speeding in Nebraska. He asked for the registration, which was back under the sink. I advised him, and offered to let him look in the cabinets prior to me getting into it. I don't know Nebraska law. He smiled, thanked me and declined.

DW got a ticket lol. Her first.

 

[templedog]

When I camp in my stealth cargo van in the city... and if an officer asks me what I'm doing one morning in a grocery store lot... can I just tell him straight up with a smile on my face "living in a cargo van".

I ask the question with no concern about the law, I wonder more about the humility of the situation. Like should I be smiling? or more timid...

 

[stude53]

<p>Unless you have the money to pay a unwanted ticket, I'd say be polite and just move on. If they want to, the police can find usually a reason to ticket or arrest you.</p>

 

[templedog]

what's the max fine possible? it seems not just a fine is in the balance.. but your reputation as well. Like within the territory if you want to stay in the area fir a long time. plus the rep of all peaceful dwellers.

 

[dragonflyinthesky]

<P><FONT color=#0000ff>big </FONT></P><DIV><b><FONT color=#0000ff>Common sense dictates that if you think you might be doing something you shouldn't do, then maybe you shouldn't do it.</FONT></b></DIV><P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <IMG border=0 align=absMiddle src="/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif">&nbsp; Sound advice but it is surprising how many people never understand it.<BR></P>

 

[Seraphim]

templedog

Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 44
    
11/21/11 at 01:52 PM
#16
what's the max fine possible? it seems not just a fine is in the balance.. but your reputation as well. Like within the territory if you want to stay in the area fir a long time. plus the rep of all peaceful dwellers.
__________________
A bad day of fishing is better than a good day of work. ~Author Unknown

Honesty is best. The max fine depends on the state. If you are parked in a grocery store lot and the business is closed, you are trespassing. If the store is open, but you are not patronizing the business you are technically trespassing as well. The decision maker is the property owner, or his representative, such as the store manager.

Most officers are not going to cite you with trespassing without the owner's backing: it's not the officer's property and they haven't that authority, unless the owner has given them previous permission to do so. If you tell the officer you are currently without a home address, are sleeping in your van until your situation improves, then most cops will have A heart. They may have you move, after checking to make sure you have no warrants.

Some places have vagrancy laws, but I can't comment on that, as we haven't one and I've no experience enforcing such.

If a business owner tells the officer it's OK with him that you are parked there, there is little the officer can do. The city may have zoning laws, but those are not enforced by the police. By the time a zoning inspector comes out you'll be long gone. That's the owners problem anyway. Zoning won't be buggered much, unless it's a continual problem of some sort - citizens complaining. But, as I said, zoning goes after the property owner.

Trespassing fwiw, is a criminal charge and, in Ohio, can be up to 3 months in jail and a $1000 (don't quote me exactly, but that'll be in the ball park) depending on the circumstances.

We had a gentleman living in his van for about a year here. He'd park in plain sight in front of a business. When the owner got tired and told him to move, he drove down to the next business. He's never been caught in any criminal activity. He cooperates every time the police deal with him and never argues. He's been banned from a couple of businesses, at the owner's request. He's neat and well groomed, walks around the city all day, spends time in the senior center, library, etc. he doesn't get needlessly hassled, only when someone complains legitimately. He's never been charged with trespassing. Store owners don't want to be jerks, they just want him to move along because they're concerned his presence, or the presence of his rusty old van, will be bad for their business.

He turned one officer against him by being untruthful. He made up some big story to explain his situation, and got the officer's sympathy. When the officer found out the background story was false, he felt like he'd been played.

The guys van finally broke down, and when the property owner complained about it, and it couldn't be moved under its own power, it got towed.

Another business's owner let's him sleep in his business at night - a violation of zoning laws, but it doesn't seem anyone has ratted him out yet.

Cops don't enforce zoning ordinances.

 

[VanTrekker]

<p style="margin: 0px;">Someone mentioned The Home Depot... The other day I was in a different city and was too tired to drive.&nbsp; After&nbsp;trying to get on the Internet at McDonalds, I gave up - it was down.&nbsp; I saw a Home Depot and, as a former employee, had to laugh.&nbsp; During the day, it's the ideal place for a nap!</p><p style="margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style="margin: 0px;">All I had to do was reach under the bed and&nbsp;grab the magnetic decoy signs which&nbsp;look like they are for&nbsp;a handyman service.&nbsp;&nbsp;I slapped the signs on the van, went over and boldy parked in the&nbsp;Pro Parking (for business customers) at the Home Depot... Then I played on the Home Depot&nbsp;public wifi, ate a bite,&nbsp;and took a nap for a while...&nbsp; Talk about well hidden - and I was in the middle of the parking lot.&nbsp; <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"></p><p style="margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style="margin: 0px;">Which do I like better, boondocking or stealth?&nbsp; It depends on where I'm at but in general, I feel safer boondocking... The law makes me nervous.</p><p style="margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style="margin: 0px;">Here's a pic with the decoy signs...&nbsp; (aka "Cloaking Device")</p><p style="margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style="margin: 0px;"><img border="0" hspace="0" alt="" align="baseline" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZgxZJkCdYvY/T1VZraEZaKI/AAAAAAAAAkE/Zn4IclMeUOc/s320/Cloaking+Device.jpg"></p>