Paralysis by Analysis

[[email protected]]

Paralysis by Analysis



First time here. Been researching vehicles for the last couple of years and I’m at an impasse. Hoping to start van life in he fall.

Hopefully y’all can ask some clarifying questions (or even the questions I should be asking) or helpful suggestions or thoughts.

Here’s what I’m working with. 25K to purchase a vehicle. 5K of that will be spent on building out the electrical including solar panels, batteries, etc. The rest of the build I can just chip away and make do for the short term, (I.e., cabinets, toilet, stove, heating, etc.

Looking for something with a good life span of 4+ years. maybe 15,000 miles/year.

Unless I was able to find an ‘06 Sprinter (Dodge, FL, MB) I’d pass on diesel because of perceived maintenance hassles.

The only other diesel I would consider would be a short-schoolie or a shuttle bus. Other than that I would try to find the optional gas-engine for the make of the van. Decent gas mileage vs. required horsepower.

Any thoughts? Thanks for your input. Good to be here!

 

[wb8vyn]

Opinions are like--- well you know. You need facts, plain and simple. Fact: diesel engines last longer than gas engines, If you can afford the greater cost of maintenance. Fact: Nation wide, Diesel fuel costs more than gas due to taxes.
Fact: Diesel mechanics cost more when things do go wrong, as do parts for even simple repairs
Fact: Diesel engines make more noise than gas engines.
Is that enough or do you need specifics.
Been driving diesel semi trucks for over 60 years nation wide. They are fine for that purpose. Smaller ones not so much.
Ken

 

[SierraVanCampers]

I think you are wise allowing for 5K for solar and power. The more you do and build yourself the lower you can get that 5K down. I can send you a quick google sheets spreadsheet on what my various build costs were for different vehicles solar and power. Even with today's crazy van prices, you should be able to find something that lasts at least four years and can handle 60K+ miles. You didn't mention your requirements in a vehicle, but it sounds like you are looking for something tall? Like a Transit or Sprinter? If not, a good 2014 Ford E250 Cargo would be a great start. Where I live in California, I see two E250 vans (2013 - 84K and a 2011 with 94K miles ) Priced at 17995.00 and 15995.00 respectively. These would last well beyond four years and 60K miles. We went the Chevrolet Express route and are very happy. We just added the raised top recently. Looking forward to hearing what you end up with and how the build goes.

Cheers,

 

[tx2sturgis]

Here's a question: Is this gonna be a weekend camping van, a fulltime live-aboard, or a seasonal bug-out rig from the great Nor-Wet?

Or something else?

Do you have a place to do the work?

 

[[email protected]]

Opinions are like--- well you know. You need facts, plain and simple. Fact: diesel engines last longer than gas engines, If you can afford the greater cost of maintenance. Fact: Nation wide, Diesel fuel costs more than gas due to taxes.
Fact: Diesel mechanics cost more when things do go wrong, as do parts for even simple repairs
Fact: Diesel engines make more noise than gas engines.
Is that enough or do you need specifics.
Been driving diesel semi trucks for over 60 years nation wide. They are fine for that purpose. Smaller ones not so much.
Ken

Thanks Ken. I appreciate the maintenance perspective on diesels. Will help much in making a decision.

 

[[email protected]]

Here's a question: Is this gonna be a weekend camping van, a fulltime live-aboard, or a seasonal bug-out rig from the great Nor-Wet?

Or something else?

Do you have a place to do the work?

Good question. Full time. Looking for a high roof something. Yes, my boss has a ranch Where I can work on it. Unless he fires me, of course! LOL!!!

 

[[email protected]]

I think you are wise allowing for 5K for solar and power. The more you do and build yourself the lower you can get that 5K down. I can send you a quick google sheets spreadsheet on what my various build costs were for different vehicles solar and power. Even with today's crazy van prices, you should be able to find something that lasts at least four years and can handle 60K+ miles. You didn't mention your requirements in a vehicle, but it sounds like you are looking for something tall? Like a Transit or Sprinter? If not, a good 2014 Ford E250 Cargo would be a great start. Where I live in California, I see two E250 vans (2013 - 84K and a 2011 with 94K miles ) Priced at 17995.00 and 15995.00 respectively. These would last well beyond four years and 60K miles. We went the Chevrolet Express route and are very happy. We just added the raised top recently. Looking forward to hearing what you end up with and how the build goes.

Cheers,

I would love to see your Google cost sheets! Going for a high roof. Will be living in it full time.

I think you are wise allowing for 5K for solar and power. The more you do and build yourself the lower you can get that 5K down. I can send you a quick google sheets spreadsheet on what my various build costs were for different vehicles solar and power. Even with today's crazy van prices, you should be able to find something that lasts at least four years and can handle 60K+ miles. You didn't mention your requirements in a vehicle, but it sounds like you are looking for something tall? Like a Transit or Sprinter? If not, a good 2014 Ford E250 Cargo would be a great start. Where I live in California, I see two E250 vans (2013 - 84K and a 2011 with 94K miles ) Priced at 17995.00 and 15995.00 respectively. These would last well beyond four years and 60K miles. We went the Chevrolet Express route and are very happy. We just added the raised top recently. Looking forward to hearing what you end up with and how the build goes.

Cheers,

thanks much for your input. Really appreciate it! I would love to see the Google spreadsheet for the cost breakdown. I’m looking for a high roof.

Any thoughts on resources for doing the electrical? Videos, blogs, etc.

What do you do at Sierra Van Living?
Thanks again!

 

[SierraVanCampers]

I would love to see your Google cost sheets! Going for a high roof. Will be living in it full time.

thanks much for your input. Really appreciate it! I would love to see the Google spreadsheet for the cost breakdown. I’m looking for a high roof.

Any thoughts on resources for doing the electrical? Videos, blogs, etc.

What do you do at Sierra Van Living?
Thanks again!

I will get busy on the google sheets right away. I will provide a link that you can access.

I am a bit different when it comes to power in our van. Everything in our van runs off 12V DC instead of having a big inverter to convert 12V up to 120V and then back down to whatever voltage the device uses. It keeps things simple too. We do have an exterior electrical connection on the van that feeds an inside power strip so when we are somewhere that has shore power, we can take advantage of it. There again, it would be to charge our batteries or run a small electrical heater. My resources on electrical are more where I go for purchasing or learning. I came from a low voltage background for 30 plus years so I was already familiar with wiring and battery plants.

I really like the following for ordering wiring:

Powerwerx Fantastic customer service but a bit more $$ then say Amazon.
Renogy Quality solar and power products and reasonable pricing

Helpful info:

www.diysolarforum.com Great forum that has a vehicle category. Usually get great responses quickly. Will Prowse runs the forum. Youtube search: Will Prowse Solar He is very knowledgeable and covers everything form basic to advanced.


If you could help provide some detail on what you are looking for too? (what devices you will be using, how many days you want to be without shore power, what is most important in powering...etc) I agree for living in it, it is so nice to be able to stand up. We first used our van without the high roof and we loved it but being able to stand has really made it nice. We still duck inside because we were so used to having to duck with the low top. LOL

Sierra Van Campers is just what we call ourselves. I could never do a van build to sell. LOL While I know electrical, when it comes to woodwork and custom interior work, I would have to give it away.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

$5k is rather generous for a solar power setup. Though I assume you are including a shore power connection and cutover switch in that figure which can be more expensive than you may think.
My set up is all Renogy stuff and is less than $2k. Though I haven't actually installed panels yet. They one I want keep selling out!
The batteries are easily the biggest chunk.

 

[[email protected]]

Qi

I will get busy on the google sheets right away. I will provide a link that you can access.

I am a bit different when it comes to power in our van. Everything in our van runs off 12V DC instead of having a big inverter to convert 12V up to 120V and then back down to whatever voltage the device uses. It keeps things simple too. We do have an exterior electrical connection on the van that feeds an inside power strip so when we are somewhere that has shore power, we can take advantage of it. There again, it would be to charge our batteries or run a small electrical heater. My resources on electrical are more where I go for purchasing or learning. I came from a low voltage background for 30 plus years so I was already familiar with wiring and battery plants.

I really like the following for ordering wiring:

Powerwerx Fantastic customer service but a bit more $$ then say Amazon.
Renogy Quality solar and power products and reasonable pricing

Helpful info:

www.diysolarforum.com Great forum that has a vehicle category. Usually get great responses quickly. Will Prowse runs the forum. Youtube search: Will Prowse Solar He is very knowledgeable and covers everything form basic to advanced.


If you could help provide some detail on what you are looking for too? (what devices you will be using, how many days you want to be without shore power, what is most important in powering...etc) I agree for living in it, it is so nice to be able to stand up. We first used our van without the high roof and we loved it but being able to stand has really made it nice. We still duck inside because we were so used to having to duck with the low top. LOL

Sierra Van Campers is just what we call ourselves. I could never do a van build to sell. LOL While I know electrical, when it comes to woodwork and custom interior work, I would have to give it away.

Wow! Thanks for the very thorough reply.
I hear you about inverters. The only 110V I would like is a microwave to reheat that cup of coffee. I think fridge I can do 12V is I’m researching correctly.

I want to be able to boondock for a couple of weeks.

Have watched a lot of Will Prowse videos, so thanks for the link to his forum!

As I get older (66), I’ve gone from 5’10” to 5’8.” I’m shrinking with age. In 2 or 3 years a low roof would probably work! LOL!!!

Thanks for your great input and putting the Google Soreadsheets together!

 

[[email protected]]

$5k is rather generous for a solar power setup. Though I assume you are including a shore power connection and cutover switch in that figure which can be more expensive than you may think.
My set up is all Renogy stuff and is less than $2k. Though I haven't actually installed panels yet. They one I want keep selling out!
The batteries are easily the biggest chunk.

Yeah, My tendency is to overbuild. I want to have plenty of power on board, both solar panel and batteries.

That you were able to do it for under 2K is promising!

What batteries are your going with, and how much power?

Thanks!

 

[[email protected]]

Here's a question: Is this gonna be a weekend camping van, a fulltime live-aboard, or a seasonal bug-out rig from the great Nor-Wet?

Or something else?

Do you have a place to do the work?

What do you have? A weekend bug-out rig or a full time rig?

 

[GntlStone]

Don't overlook a box van or ambulance either. Ambulances have great built in storage and insulation. Box vans are easy to build in because of square, flat sides.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I

Yeah, My tendency is to overbuild. I want to have plenty of power on board, both solar panel and batteries.

That you were able to do it for under 2K is promising!

What batteries are your going with, and how much power?

Thanks!

have two Renogy Bluetooth 100AH batteries.
Renogy 50 amp DCDC charger (it does inverter charging and PV charging)
and a Renogy 3000 watt inverter
If I did it over again now, I'd go all 24V since it halves the thickness of your power cables and is more compatible with the output of PV panels.
Renogy gets a bad rap, but I couldn't find a better charger for my needs at that price point. All the others have terrible power connection terminals. The DCDC50 has the same kind of lugs as the batteries. None of this bare wire into a surface mount screw terminal nonsense.
I still need to spend about $350 putting in a shore power hookup, $700 on a few panels and $1000 or so on 2 more batteries.
So I'll be at about $4000 when I finish, but I'm going to penny pinch and try and push that closer to $3500.

 

[frater secessus]

That you were able to do it for under 2K is promising!

My power setup (750w of panel, 100Ah LFP, 50a mppt, alternator charging and shore power charging was about $900.

The panels do 95% of the lifting since I don't drive much and am never around shore power.

The only 110V I would like is a microwave to reheat that cup of coffee

It could save $hundreds to use an insulated coffee mug instead. .

It doesn't take a lot of Wh to heat a cup of coffee, but the current demands for that short period will require a more substantial inverter, wiring, and battery setup than would otherwise be needed.

Thought experiment: if I were to offer you

• A microwave-reheated cup of coffee; or
• a Yeti mug and ~$600

Which one would you take?

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks! Good thoughts.
You did a separate alternator for charging?

 

[[email protected]]

I

have two Renogy Bluetooth 100AH batteries.
Renogy 50 amp DCDC charger (it does inverter charging and PV charging)
and a Renogy 3000 watt inverter
If I did it over again now, I'd go all 24V since it halves the thickness of your power cables and is more compatible with the output of PV panels.
Renogy gets a bad rap, but I couldn't find a better charger for my needs at that price point. All the others have terrible power connection terminals. The DCDC50 has the same kind of lugs as the batteries. None of this bare wire into a surface mount screw terminal nonsense.
I still need to spend about $350 putting in a shore power hookup, $700 on a few panels and $1000 or so on 2 more batteries.
So I'll be at about $4000 when I finish, but I'm going to penny pinch and try and push that closer to $3500.

 

[[email protected]]

It sounds like you’ve got a good handle on it. I thought about the 24 V quandary before. Interesting to consider.

Yes, I have the tendency to overbuild as well. Obviously everything has to work together. Doesn’t do me any good to overbuild on one part and then under build on the other.

So you’ll end up with 400ah of batteries?

And solar panels?

Thx!

 

[[email protected]]

Don't overlook a box van or ambulance either. Ambulances have great built in storage and insulation. Box vans are easy to build in because of square, flat sides.

I’m giving that thought as well. Nothing is off the table. I’m looking at short Schoolies, Shuttle Vans, box truck and ambulances and vans.

I would sure like to think that I could find something work to get 15 mpg. Probably wishful thinking unless I go with something really small in gasoline or something really expensive in diesel which I’m not going to do.

The only thing with a box van is the access from the cab and an easy way to get into the box. Lots of livable room though! Have to knock in some windows and skylights!

Thx for your input. Much appreciated!

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks Ken. I appreciate the maintenance perspective on diesels. Will help much in making a decision.

Hey Ken,
Do you feel pretty much the same way about diesels in short Schoolies or ambulances? From what I hear you saying, you were advising to stay away from diesel engines all together just because of the high maintenance in fuel costs. Correct?

Thx!