Northstar Telcom batteries

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Requ21

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Hey everyone, I'm still in the planning stages of my van build, and am currently looking at options for the electrical system.. I know the normal option is marine/deep cycle batteries... but I've been looking at Northstar batteries designed for telcom applications.. they are big, and heavy, but provide insane amounts of power... I'm just curious however if they will require unreasonable accomidations for charging due to their higher power outputs.

Here is a link to the batteries I'm considering... http://www.northstarbattery.com/batteries/nsbblue/index.php

They are 12v, and availiable in up to (I believe) 200aH, each weigh about 145lbs... 

Now, i know they can be ran into a converter, and made to run electrical devices... my question however is could they still be charged off the alternator and solor power? Sorry if this is a stupid question.


And I know that these retail for like $800, but we are pretending that money is no object for the time being...


Thanks for any help.
Requ21
 
I have a Northstar battery and have a high opinion of it, but it is a demanding battery which would not behave well if not treated right.


However I take  any lead acid battery claiming resistance to PSOC cycling with a large grain of salt, especially an AGM.

In my opinion these telecom batteries are for back up power when the grid goes out.  Most of their life is going to be held at a float voltage to keep them fully charged for when the power outage occurs.  

Now would they be a good battery in an RV.  Probably so.  Would they be better than their regular lineup designed in the standard case sizes for rv/marine use.  I've no idea.

Would they be cost effective?  Depends on how they are recharged when deeply cycled.

Any Lead Acid battery is abused by PSOC cycling.  Resistance to this is not magically going to disappear because the manufacturer states so in their marketing campaign.  It merely is an acknowledgment that the condition is a known issue, and that marketers are trained liars.

Is there some different plate material chemistry that does impart resistance to PSOC use is the question, and has no answer that can be believed unless you know an engineer that is actively working for the company and experimenting to achieve the goal, and they are willing to break their contract by talking about it.

BTW, in the RV world a converter is a 120 to 12v battery charger, an Inverter takes battery power and transforms it into 115vAC household power.

Alternators can and do recharge batteries.  they are most effective at that task when the cabling between alternator is thick and as short as possible, and AGMS when depleted can be so incredibly hungry that they can easily overheat an alternator when it is wired thickly and shortly.

And these Northstar batteries in question could indeed be superior to their regular lineup.  with their price I would certainly hope so.  But in my opinion they are mostly designed around fitting as much lead as possible in the smallest footprint.  Taller batteries generally accommodate this desire, as one is not going to build shelves strong enough to stack rows of  short squat batteries as opposed to having taller batteries with the same capacity taking up the same footprint on the floor.

Taller batteries having taller plates do have advantages.  T-105 Golf cart batteries in the GC-2 and the L-16 variants can yield much superior cycle life than the regular car jar battery sizes.  Which were all designed around stuffing under a car hood as a starting battery.

Later on manufacturers saw the market for a more cycleable battery in a car jar size, and started stuffing thicker plates into these jar sizes, but this is a serious compromise compared to a battery designed around deep cycling in the first place, like the GC-2 or l-16 size format.

These telecom batteries were not designed with the car jar restrictions in mind.  They could very well be superior to their car jar sized batteries, or perhaps not.

Their price would say yes and perhaps convince the consumer.

Me, I'll remain suspicious until my suspicions are are proved wrong, as marketers are liars, and maximum profit is the motivation of all manufacturers, and there is no consequence to outright lying.

In this lifestyle we can often repurpose things to perform in tasks in which they were not designed.  If one wants a battery with ultimate cycle life resistance, then repurposing golf cart batteries to work in this application is hardly a new idea, and not going to earn the installer any slaps on the back for their ingenuity, but it is the best bang for the buck.

As always proper recharging is key to ultimate cycle longevity, but a battery designed around cycling in the first place is just as important as charging sources which can properly  and fully recharge the battery after every discharge cycle.

Until Lithium batteries become more affordable initially,  Lead acid will be the workhorse, even with their petulant nature when improperly insufficiently  recharged.
 
Two GC2, 6 volt batteries, weigh about 60 pounds each. Are rated over 200 amp hours, and are designed to cycle. retail for less than $150 each. Mine cost $95 each and are 235 amp hour.
 
ccbreder said:
Two GC2, 6 volt batteries, weigh about 60 pounds each. Are rated over 200 amp hours, and are designed to cycle. retail for less than $150 each. Mine cost $95 each and are 235 amp hour.

Where do you find them at less than $150? Everything I've seen in that range is 2x that.... maybe I'm looking in the wrong place...
 
I've been reading that a lot of people run golf cart batteries.. however, to my knowledge Northstar doesn't make any golf cart batteries.

I have access to pretty much any Northstar battery for essentially pennies, which is why I'm trying to determine the best battery from their lineup. Which I have gathered is not the Telcom batteries.
 
Requ21 said:
I've been reading that a lot of people run golf cart batteries.. however, to my knowledge Northstar doesn't make any golf cart batteries.

I have access to pretty much any Northstar battery for essentially pennies, which is why I'm trying to determine the best battery from their lineup. Which I have gathered is not the Telcom batteries.

People run golf cart batteries because those are usually the CHEAPEST true deep-cycle batteries they can find.

If you can get ANY Northstar AGM for pennies, just get one or more of their Marine/RV batteries and stop being OCD about it.   They are DESIGNED to take the pounding a vehicle produces.  I was on their site, and they were claiming 900 cycles on 50% discharge, and 400 cycles on 80% discharge.

If those claims are even anywhere CLOSE to being correct, you will be getting way more than your money's worth from them.

Check their specs, and then concentrate on building a recharge set-up that will keep them happy.

Regards
John
 
TMG51 said:
Where do you find them at less than $150? Everything I've seen in that range is 2x that.... maybe I'm looking in the wrong place...

Costco usually has 208 AH 6V GC2's for around $80 each. You don't get more than a year warranty, but I'm going on 5 years with mine and they are still working great.

You really can't beat the GC2's. Bigger plates last longer. Heavy to have two, but worth it. They are also a bit taller than your run of the mill Group 27 12V deep cycle.

I'd go two series GC2's over two parallel 12V anything any day.
 
Cosco has GC batteries. Sam's Club has CG batteries. In the east Sam's Club sells Duracell label, these are made by East Penn. The same as Deka. I found a franchise company with East Penn batteries lower cost than Sam's Club. "Batteries Plus" with no membership fees. All around $100. +/-
 
If you can get any NS batteries for pennies, telecom or not, then you would be a fool not to acquire them.
The telecom batteries are not subject to the fitting inside of standard car jar sizes, which is a compromise in design.

I'd use a NS telecom battery in an instant if it were pennies, even if it were well used.

How often do these telecom batteries even get used? They are an emergency backup for when grid power fails and are kept at float voltage the rest of the time. They are replaced not because they wore out, but on a schedule regardless of condition. They might have been floated for 2 years, never cycled and still have 90% or more of their original capacity.

GC batteries are the best bang for the buck, for those who cannot get NS telecom batteries for pennies.
 
We've got 3 of the big 210ah blue series telcom batteries on order, no idea when they will actually get to us though.
 
That amp hour rating is at 10 hours. Most lead acid batteries are rated at 20 hours. They are designed for very fast charging, that means high amps. Your alternator may struggle. Solar should be ok, as long and slow is not all bad. I suggest a "smart" charger you can adjust to these batteries. Plug into main's power occasionally to keep them fully charged.
 
give us updates. I am interested because every couple of years a friend in the telcom industry gets a line on these. highdesertranger
 
highdesertranger said:
give us updates. I am interested because every couple of years a friend in the telcom industry gets a line on these. highdesertranger
I'll definitely give updates, my brother works at one of the Northstar plants that builds the Telcom batteries, and they allow him to buy 3 batteries a year at what amounts to pretty much nothing... the only draw back is they don't get delivered as quickly as they would if you paid retail.

Requ21
 
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