Need to figure out battery set up in one week?

[ColdBrook]

Finally have my van with basic setup, not complete but enough to travel for months this year-except for batteries and wiring...
I have only one week left to do this in.
After reading and watching you tube videos I am even more comfused-so much conflicting info out there.   I need a battery set up that will eventually be connected to 400-500 watts of solar (or is it amps?)  For now I need to set up batteries and connect my roof vent/fan, a huge Whynter refrig/freezer unit and a power winch to load and unload a wheelchair. Charge cell, reader and computer.  In future there will be a few more things but big ones are listed.  I will use a small generator to charge the batteries for now.  Help?  No matter how much I read and try to figure it out I am overwhelmed.  In order to protect my refrid/freezer what do I need? How heavy a wire do you think?  What type and size of inverter so I don't have to turn around and buy a bigger one later on? What else do I need? Any real tips you can share I appreciate.  (Please do not argue). Thank you.

 

[akrvbob]

Relax, you’e Got this!! It’s much easier than you think!! 500 watts of solar sounds good for your needs. If it were me I’d get 4, 6-volt, golf carts. If you’ll take good care of them I’d get Trojan T-105, if you won’t I’d buy Full River AGMs.

The fridge is 12 volt so no need for an inverter for it. Cigarette Lighter plugs are very poor so cut it off and hard wire it to the battery with 10 gauge wire if fairly close.

The winch will need a BIG wire but follow the manufacturers requirements, don’t guess and don’t ask on the internet. Bigger is better! My first thought is 2/0, but don’t guess—know for sure!! I’d also give serious thought to wiring the house batteries to the starting battery through a solenoid to help them out during use by starting the engine. REMEMBER, IF YOU DO THAT, THE WIRE FROM THE HOUSE TO THE STARTING BATTERIES WILL NEED TO BE THE SAME SIZE AS THE WINCH!

Nothing else you mentioned needs much of an inverter—most of it can be done with USB from 12 volt. Chances are you can get a 12 volt adapter for your laptop (search Amazon and Google).

I’d get a 500 watt inverter just in case... unless you have something you know needs a bigger one.

You can do this!!!!

 

[highdesertranger]

break it down into steps. mount the battery. does your refer have a ciggy plug if it does you have a fuse already but you need a socket to plug it into. check your 120v AC items and get an inverter that covers the largest draw. my guess is a 200-400 watt pure sine wave would do it, if the inverter has a ciggy plug you will need 2 sockets one for the inverter one for the refer. you should fuse the hot taps at the battery. what type of battery charger? hard wire or clips? highdesertranger

 

[akrvbob]

The much harder problem will be properly charging the batteries for their longest life—that really is kind of hard.

I suggest you start a new thread and ask which charger to buy and how to set it up.

You’ll get lots of great help but we’ll have to be careful that it doesn’t break down into petty bickering.

 

[John61CT]

Get a Watts Up, measures the current draw of each device in amps.

We need the peak amps consumed and the length of the wiring path to recommend wire gauges. If you are getting someone local to do your terminations (crimping) for you, ideally you will only buy 2-3 sizes to save money, it's always OK to go bigger, but smaller can be a fire risk with bigger loads.

Ideally your heavier loads will be 12V DC direct, inverters get expensive, and some device types pull very heavy amp loads when starting up, sometimes tricky to size right.

See if you can find out from the mfg of any 120V AC devices how many amps they require, especially at startup, and maybe a tech support person will know how big an inverter to get and whether that device needs a "pure sine" type.

 

[Almost There]

That winch may be a complete power hog...check the power needs carefully with the manufacturer and if it is then you may want to have it wired to the starting battery and become accustomed to starting the vehicle to use the winch.

Once you get the power ratings for the winch, bring the information here so we can help you figure out if it's more practical to run it off the house battery system or the engine.

 

[John61CT]

Whichever bank's circuit it's tied to, big loads like that should normally only run while the engine's also running, ideally higher rpm than just idling.

Otherwise even with a full bank, large voltage drops can trigger protective cutoffs, run the bank down quickly or just not run the device at its full capacity.

 

[ColdBrook]

That winch may be a complete power hog...check the power needs carefully with the manufacturer and if it is then you may want to have it wired to the starting battery and become accustomed to starting the vehicle to use the winch.

Once you get the power ratings for the winch, bring the information here so we can help you figure out if it's more practical to run it off the house battery system or the engine.

I agree and I probably need to run the winch off my my van's battery while it's running.  Just don't know how to hook it up, have read enough that I think I need a solenoid but no idea how to go about that. Hoping to have enough energy to stop by the only rv place anywhere near me and see what they say tomorrow.  Thank you.

 

[ColdBrook]

Whichever bank's circuit it's tied to, big loads like that should normally only run while the engine's also running, ideally higher rpm than just idling.

Otherwise even with a full bank,  large voltage drops can trigger protective cutoffs, run the bank down quickly or just not run the device at its full capacity.

I can run the engine to load and unload my wheelchair with the winch.  However it would be idling because van can't be moving when I load or unload my chair.  So will using the winch with van idling be an issue.  Can't I by-pass my house battery set up and just run it off my van's battery?

 

[MrAlvinDude]

Of the things you have mentioned to use power, I think that the winch is the big unknown.

It is however only a wheel chair that needs to be lifted. So it is possible that the motor of this winch is much smaller than those meant to operate front-of-vehicles winches.

If it is a big winch, then I agree with everyone else here, it needs special attention, and to run it for much more than a minute  at a time, it would be beneficial to do things like run the engine, and even run it at more than idle.



But if it is only to lift a small wheelchair (that typically weigh less than 100 pounds, and the whole operation might take 30-45 seconds), then it is most likely that the motor is quite small, and then any battery could be used to operate it several times with no problem.



So I think that in order to give you the most realistic advice, then a little more details about the type of wheelchair or lift system, or amp draw on the motor, or size of fuse that comes with the winch system, would be good to know.


So is it meant to lift a simple foldable wheelchair? Or is it an electric wheelchair? Will you be sitting in the wheelchair while it is being lifted?

Do you know how long it takes to complete the whole lift operation? Will it be lifted to the roof or only up to the floor of the van?


Or do you know how it was installed in any other vans? 
Did they fit those vans with an extra battery?  Or did they just use that vans starter battery?

 

[Weight]

With out details of the wheelchair lift. Good information will not be found here. As for the rest. Bob has posted some good information here and on other threads. Select the battery, anchor it well. Then plan wiring that can be built as you go. Don't forget fuses at the positive battery terminal. A small generator with a battery charger can be used to charge your batteries at the beginning. Don't over think the whole system, just one step at a time.

 

[John61CT]

If you follow the below, it doesn't matter which circuit you put the heavy load on. But in general it - and all deep-cycling loads not required to run the vehicle - should be connected on the House side.

A combiner (aka ACR/VSR) in normal operation only connects the House bank to the alt/Starter circuit while there is an active charge source raising voltage.

There are quality ones that also have a manual override for self jump-starting.

Even with the engine running, joining the Starter and House banks together for a short but heavy load like that, will both provide more power and save wear and tear on the House bank, helping to extend its lifetime.

Of course, you would not want to do this for long-running loads; you don't want to pull the Starter down so low the van won't start.

You definitely want an ACR rated to carry high ampacity across the connection between the two sides.

This is a good one:

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7620/ML-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12V_DC_500A

It will last even longer than the chargers I recommended, likely can be passed on down to the great grandchildren.

 

[ColdBrook]

So I think that in order to give you the most realistic advice, then a little more details about the type of wheelchair or lift system, or amp draw on the motor, or size of fuse that comes with the winch system, would be good to know.

So is it meant to lift a simple foldable wheelchair? Or is it an electric wheelchair? Will you be sitting in the wheelchair while it is being lifted?

Do you know how long it takes to complete the whole lift operation? Will it be lifted to the roof or only up to the floor of the van?

Or do you know how it was installed in any other vans? 
Did they fit those vans with an extra battery?  Or did they just use that vans starter battery?

Sorry I never answered your questions, missed it somehow.  My electric wheelchair is actually a huge three wheel one. I won't be on it when it is loaded. The winch will pull it up 6 foot ramps into my Ram Promaster van (sliding door opening) Winch is bigger than needed but was given to me used.  It is a 3000 lb electric winch.  It was previously used to load Harley motorcycles into a cargo trailer.  I will only need to load and unload my wheelchair when I stay at locations for more than a night or two.   It loads in just a couple of minutes.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

Sorry I never answered your questions, missed it somehow.  My electric wheelchair is actually a huge three wheel one. I won't be on it when it is loaded. The winch will pull it up 6 foot ramps into my Ram Promaster van (sliding door opening) Winch is bigger than needed but was given to me used.  It is a 3000 lb electric winch.  It was previously used to load Harley motorcycles into a cargo trailer.  I will only need to load and unload my wheelchair when I stay at locations for more than a night or two.   It loads in just a couple of minutes.

Ah, I see. Well, then it is to be considered a "big" winch, and then a suitable big battery bank is to be advised. And setting up that battery bank, so the engine can idle while the winch is being used, can be a very good idea. 

For a 3000 lb winch, loading even an electric wheel chair, should however not push the winch anywhere near its limits. And thus it will also not push the batteries to their limits, as long as you have at least a 150Ah battery bank.


Setting up a solenoid (or similar), as John61CT describes in a previous post, so your house battery and van starter battery can be connected, at the flick of a switch, will be the best way to use your batteries. 

The solenoid (or similar) can also be set up, so your house batteries will get charged while you drive the van.

A solenoid (or similar), will also allow you to take advantage of having the engine running, while you use the winch, even if the winch is primarily connected to your house batteries. 

Likewise a solenoid (or similar), can be set up so your house batteries can be used to jumpstart the van, in case the van starter battery, for some reason or other, gets too drained. 


Since a solenoid can incorporate all of these advantages, at the flick of a switch, I highly recommend you add this option to your electric setup.

 

[Weight]

I had one of those smaller wenches. I wouldn't trust it pulling a stuck-truck, but it will work fine for your cart. I would connect to the vehicle start battery, with the engine running. The drain on the battery will not be much for the few seconds it is used with your light load. Then, the alternator will cover that while you drive away. When it comes time for a new start battery, I would get a marine type. A block and tackle could be stashed as an emergency loader.