My Conversion van.....conversion

[Vanholio]

Now I need to figure out why my home had a "spray on" radiant barrier. Snake oil?

Reflective paint does work to some extent to reduce emmisivity of the decking, but not very well. That is, the decking can't release its heat into the attic as well as if the paint weren't there. But foil / Reflectix with an air gap is much more effective because it's a smoother surface and because it uses reflectivity to shoot the radiant energy back, which works twice as well.

So in a van, Reflectix between foam board and paneling helps a bit, but not much. Better to use the foam board with foil backing; less work.

[video=youtube]

 

[rvpopeye]

Welcome aboard Vanholio !
(Or , are you actually Butthead ?)

Post an intro of yourself on the newcomer's corner thread to everyone can get a chance to welcome you as well.
Oh yeah pics of the rig will make you a star !

 

[waverider1987]

Thanks all who've replied thus far.

Think i'll be done with ripping out the interior tomorrow or monday. Then the real work begins. Problem is, I'm not sure where to start.

I figure BEFORE installing the insulation, I should put any holes in the roof that I want, for ac/vent/solar? Or does it not really matter which order that part goes in.

And this may be getting a bit far ahead, but eventually i'm going to come back to this question. I want to get a solar set up that can run a small fridge/electric cooler and run an ac unit. I realize the ac may be pushing it a bit, not sure if it's even logical. Can you get enough energy from solar to run a roof ac unit?

 

[DannyB1954]

I realize the ac may be pushing it a bit, not sure if it's even logical. Can you get enough energy from solar to run a roof ac unit?

A room A/C is more than the solar panels can deal with. An evaporate cooler would work if you are in a dry climate, but then you would be using water which may be hard to come by. 

To run an a/c unit, you will need to run a generator. Even the smallest window a/c will use 5 amps at 120v. That is 600 watts. Even more when they first start. Watts is also called Power. It is the voltage times the amperage. The inverter does not create energy, it just converts it. It takes low voltage at high amperage and turns it into high voltage at low amperage. So the inverter will be taking 600 watts out of the battery. At 12 Volts that will be 50 amps. A 100 watt solar panel will put out 8 watts, so you would need over 6 of them of them. When you factor in the inefficiencies of the inverters and solar panels, you would need probably 8 or ten of them and be parked in the direct sun.

Most people use a fan called the Fan-Tastic Vent. They start around $130 and go upwards of $250 if you want all the bells and whistles like rain sensors and electric opening and closing
You can make a room cooler by blowing air over ice, but then you need to buy ice.

 

[TMG51]

Short answer: Give up on the AC idea. A 12v fan works wonders and a cold spray bottle works wonders more when it's really hot. Doesn't hurt to be naked either.

 

[Binxie]

Short answer: Give up on the AC idea. A 12v fan works wonders and a cold spray bottle works wonders more when it's really hot. Doesn't hurt to be naked either.

I agree with what TMG51 said. What I did in my Promaster City (a mini cargo van) was put in two reversible FanTastic fans with the vent hoods. The idea was that I'd get one pulling in and one pushing out for complete and rapid air circulation in hot weather. It worked like a charm. I've been comfy up to low 90s humid weather. Of course, that's lying still and taking my shirt off, but still. Under 90, I'm just fine.

In moderately warm weather, I just run the fan over the foot of my bed on the lowest setting pushing out. Then close up all the windows and doors and simply open the vent to the fan over the head of the bed; I don't even turn that fan on. The pushing out fan action sucks in air through the vent by my head, bringing in a lovely, cooling breeze right on my face that passes over my body. I didn't plan it that way; it was serendipity.

Another advantage to the duel fan setup is that if I have dampness inside, say when the dogs and I climb in after getting wet in the rain or when a cold front has caused humidity to suddenly condense in the night and soak me in my bed, I run the two fans, one in, one out, on lowest settings. I'm dry pretty fast. I've gotten in soaked in a rain storm, just changed my shirt and towel dried as best I could, and the bedding, dogs, and I are dry in an hour, even with the storm still raging outside. Again, serendipity.

What I also like about this setup is that I get all that airflow without cracking windows or doors. I feel safer. Maybe I really am safer. No bugs that way, too.

 

[phillipaaron]

Yes, I would take care of any wiring, holes, or etc before putting in the insulation. You could do this after the fact but generally easier to do so before hand.

Sadly, A/C's are power hungry. Get a generator if it's a must, however, fantastic fans are quite fantastic. I do not have one, but have experienced one. In the Texas heat I was rather comfortable.

 

[waverider1987]

I figured the AC was a bit much. I was more thinking about for my cat, then for myself. Like if I had to leave her in the car to go work for all day, i didn't want to have the windows cracked cuz more chances of people breaking in...or the cat getting out.

 

[DannyB1954]

I figured the AC was a bit much.  I was more thinking about for my cat, then for myself.  Like if I had to leave her in the car to go work for all day, i didn't want to have the windows cracked cuz more chances of people breaking in...or the cat getting out.

If you are not in a humid climate, a evaporator cooler running with a roof fan might work. If you are at work, getting water is probably not a problem. What I use is a small room humidifier. Get the type that uses a fan to evaporate the water and not a heater. Something like this one  https://jet.com/product/detail/d9812a5322de43da982846beb6f9bd34
I got mine from a thrift store for about $6. I run it off of a small inverter, (you could change the fan in it to 12volt). As the water evaporates it cools the air. there is no water pump, the water just wicks it's way up the filter that is inside kind of like a sponge soaking up water. You will need to run a vent fan with it as well, because once the inside air becomes humid, it will not cool. Then the inside will be both hot and humid, (yuck). 
You might find that leaving it on while you drive will give you additional cooling. When I do this I put the vehicle A/C on recirculated air. The A/C unit will remove excessive moisture from the air, and the humidifier will put some cool moist air into the vehicle. I use this method on my house also. Most of the year it is dry here and I use a hole house evaporative cooler. About July it becomes humid and that no longer works, so I turn on the house A/C, and a room evaporative cooler, ( got at a yard sale for $10) something like this.  http://www.amazon.com/SPT-SF-608R-Portable-Evaporative-Cooler/dp/B000OKHY2S the evaporating water helps cool, and the A/c removes the water from the air so it is not too humid inside
With a vent fan, you need to have a way for the air to get back into the vehicle. What goes out has to be able to come in somewhere.

 

[waverider1987]

Then my dad chimes in with the..."the AC is for when you can plug into shore power".

Well, ha...why didn't I think of that?

Imagine there will be times when I will be sitting in one place for a while where an outlet is available.

Now the thing is...how I'm going to fit a roof top AC unit, fantastic fan, and solar panel on my conversion van roof...which is not flat, btw.

 

[BradKW]

I'd probably put a big roof rack on that...might need a little fab work, but that curvy roof would hold lots more solar with a rack. A hole in the rack for the fan hood. And for AC, since it's not something you use off grid, or even year round, you don't need to worry about high efficiency (which roof units definately are not anyway), so consider a portable like this:

     http://www.homedepot.com/p/SPT-8-00...5QOPBByrd1RnzHV7L66XXfQKuYtlCWVO3tRoCG7Pw_wcB

It's about 15x15x30 and vents out a dryer-type hose. It would be easy to vent through the floor, or I've seen setups that vent out a front window with plywood and a hole.

Big benefit is you don't "have" to carry it all the time and it doesn't use up any exterior realestate. Downside is it uses up some interior space.

 

[DannyB1954]

You can use a window A/c unit which is not very stealthy, or they make portable room a/c units like http://www.amazon.com/Whynter-Porta...ts=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:2829013011

I like the dual hose units, I think they work better. The single hose models are cheaper to buy.
When I say single or dual hose, I am talking about the hoses that you vent to the outside. The single hose models use some of the room air to cool the condenser section then pump it outside. Problem being whatever you push out has got to come back in somewhere. This incoming air being warm will make the unit run longer.
On a dual hose model, they pull in outside air to cool the condenser, then pump it back out.

 

[waverider1987]

Has anyone ever done the interior first then later gone back and put in the vent, solar, etc, successfully? Right now i'm able to put up the interior myself, with the insulation and paneling. The roof is more intimidating, because cutting through all the metal. My dad says he knows how to do it but idk when he's going to be able to get around to doing it. I do want all that stuff eventually. But right now i'm thinking i can at least get the basics and then later add all the fancy stuff. But i don't want to make a mistake and build up the interior then later cut holes in the roof just to curse myself for not doing that first. And it would have to be able to all be installed without taking down the interior, of course. Cuz that would be a huge pain in the ass.

What do ya'll think?

 

[phillipaaron]

Generally there is a logical order of operations for ease of construction. With that said, you can always retro fit items, however, it tends to be more of a challenge. So, ya you can do the interior now and the rest later, however, it might be more difficult or not yield the aesthetic results you'd like.

Cutting through the metal in the van should not intimidate you. Drill bits and hole saws make quick work of holes. If you need to cut out a large section, say for a roof fan or AC, it's actually pretty easy. Mark out your cut. Drill four holes in each corner making sure the hole you drill has a large enough diameter for your jigsaw blade to slide inside of. Then use the jigsaw (with metal cutting blade) to cut along the lines like a hot knife in butter. It was waaay easier than I thought it was going to be. That's my two cents.

 

[TMG51]

Has anyone ever done the interior first then later gone back and put in the vent, solar, etc, successfully?  Right now i'm able to put up the interior myself, with the insulation and paneling.  The roof is more intimidating, because cutting through all the metal.  My dad says he knows how to do it but idk when he's going to be able to get around to doing it.  I do want all that stuff eventually.  But right now i'm thinking i can at least get the basics and then later add all the fancy stuff.  But i don't want to make a mistake and build up the interior then later cut holes in the roof just to curse myself for not doing that first.  And it would have to be able to all be installed without taking down the interior, of course.  Cuz that would be a huge pain in the ass.

What do ya'll think?

I would just lay any wires/conduit/plumbing that you don't want seen behind the interior as you install it. That way you won't have to try to bury wires later when you install solar. If you're not going to have an RV style water system no need for plumbing to go down. If you don't care about exposed wires then you can put them on top later too!

Don't worry about cutting holes for roof vents and such. Holes always get sealed from the outside, and on the inside you want the interior in place in order to trim around it. So you want to do your hole cutting after the interior is in place anyway.

 

[DannyB1954]

If you know which vent that you will be using, you can install the frame and wiring when doing the interior. Then later cut the inside and outside hole. Running extra wires is always a good idea. You may later want a light, solar panel, or something else in the area

 

[Almost There]

Has anyone ever done the interior first then later gone back and put in the vent, solar, etc, successfully?  Right now i'm able to put up the interior myself, with the insulation and paneling.  The roof is more intimidating, because cutting through all the metal.  My dad says he knows how to do it but idk when he's going to be able to get around to doing it.  I do want all that stuff eventually.  But right now i'm thinking i can at least get the basics and then later add all the fancy stuff.  But i don't want to make a mistake and build up the interior then later cut holes in the roof just to curse myself for not doing that first.  And it would have to be able to all be installed without taking down the interior, of course.  Cuz that would be a huge pain in the ass.

What do ya'll think?

I did the interior first because I wasn't putting in the roof vent until I got to the RTR.

BUT, I framed out where I wanted the roof vent to go and installed my roof panels so that they would accommodate the roof vent. And even with all my careful planning I ended up with a couple of boo-boos. I did the ceiling in 4 sections so it was easy to handle.

All my old vents in those vans from years ago had squared off trim 'rings', I swear they did... . Todays' vents all have rounded corners which look nicer but left me with teeny tiny gaps between the roof panels and the trim ring..sigh!

If you're doing roof top solar you'll need access to where the bolts are going through so you can put nuts on the bottom side.

My recommendation would be to make sure that it's going to be easy to drop the roof panels for the solar install and measure better than I did for the roof vent installation....heck have the roof vent on hand for sizing so you don't end up with any 'oops'!

 

[highdesertranger]

you can always add the roof top accessories after the interior is done. however it's much easier if you do both together. highdesertranger

 

[ascii_man]

My $0.02:
Regarding the foam with aluminum side: the foam is similar to an air gap for these purposes: it produces a barrier to heat conduction/convection, so you don't need an actual air gap. Reflectix just talks about an air gap because anything, even clear plastic, plus an air gap provides insulation, and that's about all they have besides reflectivity.

The metal, whether on Reflectix or on a sheet of insulation, is a radiant barrier, or like mirror. For the purposes of blocking radiant heat (like the kind that comes out of a sunlamp), it doesn't care what season or whether it's inside or out. But in practice, it does matter, because if it's on the outside, contacting the skin of the truck, then it will conduct heat to or from the van body, Again, season doesn't matter, you're screwed both ways: it will touch the cold van skin in the winter (bad) and the hot van skin in the summer.

Regarding the A/C, the dual-hose portables are awful: expensive and inefficient. Roof units are cheap and efficient, and there is a Frigidaire 5000 BTU/h on Amazon that people have successfully run off batteries/inverters. But that does require a lot of battery capacity.

For your cat, the fan should be sufficient: the problem with leaving pets in vehicles is the greenhouse effect making the inside far hotter than ambient. A roof vent will keep the inside no warmer than the outside, and many are designed to create a breeze.

 

[waverider1987]

Installing insulation...

What R value do you recommend putting in for the...

1. roof
2. sides
3. floor