morals and ethics of carrying firearms

[twokniveskatie]

as suggested by a few folks, other aspects of carrying firearms....

 

[VanTramp]

This topic looks lonely...I am surprised no one has added anything yet!&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I am curious as to how many have made the decision to own or not own guns based on a moral or ethical theory. Any input?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>For me, it has never been about that. I am a Happy, Christian, Hippie, Tree-Hugging-bunny-squeezer who just happens to enjoy guns <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> Grew up with em and enjoy having and shooting them! &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>

 

[twokniveskatie]

dude, i have *SEEN* the trees you hug in the PNW!<div><br></div><div>my decision is not based on moral or ethical reasons, really. i grew up with guns. i consider guns as tools, like knives and socket wrenches. i do not carry guns out of fear. during the period of my life (after the assault) when i was a wreck, i did not carry. i did not trust myself to be able to judge safely and accurately when i was in danger. carrying is a goal i reached after conquering the greatest of my fears. i am actually pretty proud of it, as were the people who loved and supported me through it all....</div><div><br></div><div>as many people have mentioned, it is not fear that drives me to carry a spare tire, insurance, fire extinguishers, whatever. preparation is good, it's up to the individual to decide what they will prepare for, and to what extent....</div><div><br></div><div>i like shooting them too, as in fun!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

 

[Suanne]

<BR><DIV>I am curious as to how many have made the decision to own or not own guns based on a moral or ethical theory.

</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I didn't grow up with guns.&nbsp;&nbsp;And, in considering&nbsp;having firearms&nbsp;now, I&nbsp;do consider the morals and ethics&nbsp;of carrying for self-defense purposes.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Although I think of&nbsp;a firearm as a tool, it is a tool that is decisively lethal.&nbsp; It empowers one to&nbsp;easily destroy the life of another human being.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>To carry for self defense purposes, I need to&nbsp;be willing to kill someone else.&nbsp; For me that is, at it's core, a moral and ethical decision.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>So, if I&nbsp;use a firearm for target practice ...&nbsp; and&nbsp;I agree, that's fun ... then&nbsp;morals or ethics are not of consequence.&nbsp; But, as soon as&nbsp;I carry for self-defense ... open or concealed ... on my person or in my vehicle ... then, my personal morals and ethics come strongly into play.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Up until I considered going solo into BLM or NSF lands, I didn't feel the need to have a firearm for self defense.&nbsp; Now, I'm preparing myself to carry at those times.&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Suanne</DIV>

 

[VanTramp]

dude, i have *SEEN* the trees you hug in the PNW!<div><br></div><div>my decision is not based on moral or ethical reasons, really. i grew up with guns. i consider guns as tools, like knives and socket wrenches. i do not carry guns out of fear. during the period of my life (after the assault) when i was a wreck, i did not carry. i did not trust myself to be able to judge safely and accurately when i was in danger. carrying is a goal i reached after conquering the greatest of my fears. i am actually pretty proud of it, as were the people who loved and supported me through it all....</div><div><br></div><div>as many people have mentioned, it is not fear that drives me to carry a spare tire, insurance, fire extinguishers, whatever. preparation is good, it's up to the individual to decide what they will prepare for, and to what extent....</div><div><br></div><div>i like shooting them too, as in fun!</div><div><br></div><div>

</div><div><br></div><div>LOL, You hugged that tree too, I have proof! <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"></div><div><br></div><div>You should be proud of what you accomplished! Conquering those fears after your ordeal is an incredible success! I agree with everything you said about it.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

 

[user 423]

&nbsp;&nbsp; My view on this topic has changed over the years. I grew up familiar with guns, as my older brother was an avid hunter/target shooter and I got a .22 for my b'day when I was 13.&nbsp; My dad was a WWII vet but he never had a gun in our house. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Remember "The Yearling"?&nbsp; My dad grew up in a remote area of MN and I remember seeing old family pictures of him as a boy with an orphaned fawn or two, so I understood when he objected when I wanted to take up bow hunting as a teenager. He said he could never hunt deer for 'sport' but did acknowledge that he had shot many out of necessity when he was younger, to augment his family's meager income. Anyway, I guess I inherited some of his sensitive side as I never was much of a hunter and was not nearly as fascinated by guns as my brother was.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; In the mid-80s my best friend took a job as a contract engineer and had to be on the road a lot and he bought a used 9mm. I disagreed with him vehemently about the need to own a handgun. Now, this was when I was in good health and in good shape and at 6'-200lbs. I had never felt vulnerable when I traveled. But you know what? The mid-80's seemed to be when things started to get a lot more violent in the US and so my attitude gradually changed. I still didn't feel the need to go out and buy a gun but I did understand how my friend (w/wife and 2 kids) felt. So a few years later, when he bought a new pistol, I bought his old one and did enjoy target shooting with it. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Now, many years later and with mobility problems, I do pack a pistol in my vehicle when traveling....just in case and I would have no 'moral' qualms about using it.&nbsp; I live in a relatively low-crime area, so it's not something that I think about much at home. I never carry it and don't plan on getting a CCW permit. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Every person will have a different take on this issue, dependent on where they live, where they travel to, their physical stature,age, health, experiences,etc. <br>&nbsp; <br><br>

 

[VanTramp]

<br><div>I didn't grow up with guns.&nbsp;&nbsp;And, in considering&nbsp;having firearms&nbsp;now, I&nbsp;do consider the morals and ethics&nbsp;of carrying for self-defense purposes.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div>To carry for self defense purposes, I need to&nbsp;be willing to kill someone else.&nbsp; For me that is, at it's core, a moral and ethical decision.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div>Suanne</div>

<div><br></div><div>Hey Suanne, You know, I completely forgot about the carrying and owning/using being two different possible viewpoints ethically which of course it is.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Like Slowday, my view has changed over the years. I am really not a killer in general. I feel bad for a fish even when I catch them to eat, go to great lengths to relocate misguided bugs and spiders and tend to take a very native american view of any animals I might take while hunting. I never considered carrying a weapon for self defense purposes until the last few years.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>That said, both Heidi and I applied for our CPL's yesterday. So why the change? Really it had much to do with Heidi. When it was just me, I always felt pretty confident without a gun and didn't want the responsibility carrying one entailed. Now with her, and also with my health over the last few years, I feel like it is the right choice to be able to defend my family. In that case or a situation that involved protecting others who were not able to defend themselves, I could use lethal force. I seriously pray there is never a need.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Your thoughts on carrying on BLM and NSF lands is very understandable.&nbsp;</div>

 

[Suanne]

That said, both Heidi and I applied for our CPL's yesterday.

<DIV>John and I just got ours&nbsp;too.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>

I could use lethal force. I seriously pray there is never a need.

&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Ditto.&nbsp; That's the "place" I'm at in my decision to carry for self-defense as well.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I hope you are feeling better these days.&nbsp; We hope to make it up over&nbsp;your way pretty soon&nbsp;and would love to stop by to say hi.&nbsp; (((Hugs))) to you both.</DIV>

 

[VanTramp]

Yeah, I feel a lot better right now than I have in a while. Getting out to some target shooting and doing a bit of fly fishing has been good for me! I really need to keep active to stay healthy. Much too easy to sit back and take things easy which doesn't really get the lungs going.. Thanks for asking! I hope you and John are both doing well too!&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>We look forward to seeing you again and meeting John! You are always welcome at the ranch <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"></div>

 

[karl]

<br>I have very similar thoughts on owning weapons- grew up with them, my first 22 at nine (this is hunting country), have always treated them with respect, still enjoy target shooting a few times a year, just enjoy a well made/ good handling handgun or shotgun....not at all inclined to kill anything for any reason...that said- I rarely carry except for when we hike near the Canadian Border&nbsp; ( Lots of smuggling in this area, and an experience a few years ago led to my decision to arm myself ).<br>&nbsp;I truly hope I never feel the need to fire one in self defense.<br>My reasons for carry now are very like VT's- age and mileage, and there is often a petite and very close friend hiking with me.<br>On the road, I am normally solo, and only carry along the border, if at all. <br><br><br>

 

[twokniveskatie]

<div>just a few random thoughts.</div><div><br></div><div>gun ownership is a huge responsibility. you need to know safe handling and practice it <b>every single second </b>you own one. because, as Suanne said, a mistake can be lethal.&nbsp;you need to to maintain the weapon and your skills.&nbsp;you need to keep weapons secured. (one of the saddest ER cases i ever had was a little boy shot in the abdomen by another little boy who found a loaded gun. he did not survive.)</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><div>i have gotten to the point where i only feel comfortable carrying on my person. no more carrying in the messenger bag. if i can't wear it, i lock it up. then there is never any doubt where the gun is, not even for a second.</div><div><br></div><div>i've always been a pretty sensitive person. most of my life was focused on the healing arts or hospice work, especially as a foster mom to dying kids. those experiences shaped alot of what i feel about the world, and how precious life is.</div><div><br></div><div>working in the medical department of a maximum security prison also shaped me significantly. i spent a lot of time with inmates, doing exams and interviews. i sat face to face with sociopaths, murderers and a serial killer, sometimes alone in a room with them. i heard their stories, and read their jackets. instead of making me more fearful of the world i then perceived as dangerous, it went a long way towards curing my fears. i'm not sure why. maybe you have heard the quote "i looked into the abyss, and the abyss looked back at me". sometimes i felt like that. my family was certain taking the job would ruin me. in some ways it saved me.</div><div><br></div><div>one of my jobs was to do monthly safety and sanitation inspections throughout the whole prison. every inch of it: cellblocks, basement shower rooms, the gym, kitchens, bathrooms....places no female had ever been before. because i was a contract worker, no guards would accompany me. a kind lieutenant took me to the yard and pointed out to me the location of the towers, and taught me how to "triangulate" the view from each tower to know at all times if i was out of view of one of them. there was a particular dumpster that could not be seen from a tower or any sally port, in the shadow of the laundry. he told me to give it a wide berth, because they'd rape or kill me "quicker than shit" if they had a chance. i was terrified, to say the least. i was remembering my rapist, a knife at my neck, and the smell of my own blood. in parting, he said "they can smell fear. hold your head up and walk like you own the place."</div><div><br></div><div>i could have quit, &nbsp;but i stepped out like i owned the place. i did those inspections for 3 years, head high and watching every second. after that, i knew i could claim my courage. anyone who says i am ruled by fear does not know me well.</div><div><br></div><div>after working in the prison, it confirmed for me that evil<b>&nbsp;is</b>&nbsp;everywhere...in the streets and in the churches and the schools, in the bedroom of an innocent toddler, in the apartment of an elderly woman. it lives right smack dab alongside kindness, and everything that is good in the world. although i believe unfailingly in the power of love, i know that sometimes, still, evil may still come for you....how you choose to confront it, if it finds you, is a personal choice.</div><div><br></div></div><div>i personally cannot imagine feeling the slightest bit of remorse in taking a life in a self-defense situation. the memory of that knife point in the tender spot beneath my ear, where the jawbone meets the neck, is pretty vivid still, and i am clear about who i want to have "the power" if that situation comes up again. an instructor asked me "what do you think you would feel?" the only word i can come up with is "pissed".&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>i hope i never have to find out.</div><div><br></div>

 

[Seraphim]

<P>

</P><DIV>I am curious as to how many have made the decision to own or not own guns based on a moral or ethical theory. Any input?&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV>

<br><br>Whne I was in the military, I purchased a small gauge shotgun for my wife to keep at home when i was deployed. She advised me she could never shoot anyone, so a gun in the home was merely arming a burglar.&nbsp; Sold the shotgun.<br><br>

 

[Seraphim]

<P>

I could use lethal force. I seriously pray there is never a need.

</P><P><BR>A mature outlook - unfortunately, not one shared by every gun owner. When the topic of carry permits came out in our area, I was against them. It passed anyway. I have to deal with a good number of idiots who are - essentially - looing for a legal excuse to blow someone away, and they now have a firearm at hand to do so. I have several stories that would be hilarious if not so frightening.<BR></P><P>And in none of those instances would the shooter have been justified...</P>

 

[fwiw]

I think that guns hurt more than they help, so I refuse to support them. I know what myself alone not buying a gun won't ever stop the use of guns, but I would still rather not contribute.&nbsp; Probably because the last time I saw a gun It was pointed at my face by a drunk loony-bin.&nbsp; <br><br>

 

[Stillwater]

Without regard to the type of tool, I don't fear the tool itself. Whether a fire extinguisher or a firearm. I try to be prepared for potential problems in my life with everything from spare food in the car to liability insurance. I always carry a pocket knife and a small CR123 flashlight. These are multi-purpose tools and I use them daily. <br><br>My jack and gun... they are single-use tools for more specific situations but, again, I like to be prepared.<br><br>As a reasonably responsible adult, I avoid "trouble." To avoid confrontation in life is sometimes <i>irresponsible</i> (thank you, Dr. King,) but by "trouble" I mean some conflict with a stranger over pride, irritation, meaningless crap. <br><br>To put it more succinctly, I find that carrying a firearm routinely does mean that I am actually a bit MORE careful about avoiding a negative interaction and "not getting in someone's face." To be fair, the same thing is true of being 6'3 &amp; 220 lbs.. You'll find the same attitude from folks who are seasoned martial artists. (Not that I am... I stopped Isshinryu at green belt. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">)<br><br>In short, if you're a hothead who can't control your temper, you shouldn't own/carry a firearm. In addition, you shouldn't own a baseball bat, drive a car, likely be in public but should seek counseling for your emotional issues.<br><br>I hope and proceed thru life with the fervent intention and prayer that I never have to strike another human being, much less use a firearm.<br><br>"I'm not fluent in the language of violence but know enough to get by in places where it is spoken."<br><br>

 

[VanTramp]

What Paddling Man said <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">

 

[Stillwater]

I wuv you, man. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br>

 

[Guest]

Hi all,<br>I had no idea it would be so hard to write about this. I think the difficulty for me is to isolate my moral and ethical values about this topic from the rest of my life details and experiences. In fact it is proving too difficult and would be far too long.<br><br>What I am going to do is only post this and if anyone is interested how I believe (which can change any time there is new, good info) and how I walk, I invite you into my life at some level and we can join hands and do the walk together.<br><br>Having ADD, the firearm topic has little interest to me now since there is not even a choice about guns, riding my sidecar in Mexico and that is where I am focused.<br><br>I will try to incorporate more of my beliefs in my writing on my blog and will keep it up as I travel this winter in Mexico.<br>Am I scared?....yeppers....I am scared. About going and mostly that I will not carry through with my bucket list because of others fears...which I can take on so easily. <br><br>On my own I am afraid...with my Creator at my side I overcome the fears. So far in my life I have faced most of my fears standing up with my Creator and have walked through them. I think I will with this one as well. Well, except jumping out of airplanes or off bridges with a nylon bag on my back or rubber band around my ankles...that is just crazy talk! ;^)<br><br>Peace Pilgrim, one of my heroines, never faced anything she and her God could not make it through...she walked many thousands of miles and had zero money or possessions. She was cold, wet, tired, hungry and afraid many times but her worst fears never materialized. <br><br>The only difference between her and all of us is the depth of her faith, the willingness to rely on it and the mission she was on. She is the inspiration that moves me in my journey through life...I will doubtfully ever be anywhere close to that but it is a nice goal...kinda like the life of that other radical, hippy, revolutionary, peacenik, Jesus of Nazareth...another of my heros....<br><br>Please believe me when I say, if you feel you should be armed, by all means you have my encouragement, if you don't feel you should be, you have my encouragement also. It is all up to you.<br><br>My fervent wish is that this does not inflame....but unites...<br><br>Peace,<br>Bri<br><br>

 

[dragonflyinthesky]

<FONT size=3><b>Bri, thankyou for sharing this ever changing path in your life with me. </b></FONT><br><FONT size=3><b>Dragonfly</b></FONT><br>

 

[Guest]

Hi Dragonfly and it is my pleasure to have you with me in spirit...I just signed up with your blog so it will be in my reader....looking forward to reading as you travel on.<br>Bri<br><br>