Looking at Van Options for Urban Stealth

[notabear13]

So, kinda new here, so bear with me.

I just got a job in a new city - the first one that actually pays me real money. It is a white collar job with lots of room for growth, friendly coworkers, and pretty good benefits. Needless to say, I can't wait to get out of it, so I'm committing to [ERE](http://earlyretirementextreme.com/). To that end, I'm looking at moving into a van in order to save some money while I work, and then to have a place to live in when I'm done working. So, in the spirit of saving money, I'm trying to put everything together - cost of the van + repairs, registration and such, and the full conversion, for less than what I am currently paying in yearly rent, $7200.

I've listed out everything I think I'll need for conversion out to be about $2000, popped up to $2200 to account for unknowns, and to make the next number rounder. So I have $5000 to spend on the van and any repairs it needs.

My job is located in an office park. An office building surrounded by other office buildings surrounded by parking lots. Literally, probably 70% of the land here is asphalt. Within a few miles are strip malls, chain restaurants, and, finally, suburbia as far as the eye can see. I would feel completely safe from criminals here - after all, what kind of troublemaker is going to drive 30 minutes outside the city to a suburban office park in order to hassle some guy in a van? I don't see police being much of an issue, either - they stick to the main roads to look out for speeders and drunk drivers - if you aren't in a moving vehicle, you won't really get noticed around here. Because there is so much parking, it wouldn't be hard to be ignored most of the time as long as I kept a low profile - everyone will think the van is someone else's, and as long as I move every 2 days or so, no one will notice the van that is "always there". I'll be keeping my small sedan around, at least for the first bit, in order to be able to run into the city if I need something, want to meet up with friends, want to make a long trip without burning up gas, etc - so the van will be almost exclusively for living in - I might put 15 miles on it per week. Because of this, I'm not too concerned about it having a very strong engine.

So, here are my thoughts on options:

Classic van - something like an E350.
Pros: most stealthy, best gas mileage, very common, cheap to buy, cheap to repair.
Cons: smallest choice, can't stand up, could get old fast.

Box Truck
Pros: larger, might be able to stand all the way up (I'm 6'3"), cheap to buy, cheap to repair, stealthier solar panels since they will be harder to see on a higher roof.
Cons: Less stealthy, worse gas, harder to park, the entry to my homespace would be a roll up door - not very stealthy or convenient.

Step Van
Pros: larger, might be able to stand up, stealthier solar panels, more convenient entry than the box truck.
Cons: More expensive, worse gas, harder to park, less stealthy

Sprinter Van
Pros: larger, might be able to stand up, stealthier solar, convenient entry, stealthier than a box truck or step van
Cons: More expensive, expensive to repair (assuming here), not as stealthy as a regular van.

Anyone have words of wisdom to share with me on van choice or stealth dwelling in general?

 

[Patrick46]

with $5000 to work with, and being an extra tall fella, the only thing I'd say is STEPVAN.

Sprinters are a great way to go, but not with your working budget.

Even with what you've got, finding a stepvan in decent condition will still take some serious shopping and tire kicking.

I say stick to aluminum bodies. Steel ones rust.

 

[notabear13]

with $5000 to work with, and being an extra tall fella, the only thing I'd say is STEPVAN.

Sprinters are a great way to go, but not with your working budget.

Even with what you've got, finding a stepvan in decent condition will still take some serious shopping and tire kicking.

I say stick to aluminum bodies. Steel ones rust.

Thanks for the reply. I was leaning towards the step van myself, but it seems like ones that are within my budget are in short supply - I'll need to really be on top of it to score one at the right price. That plus the stealth factor is really why I'm here asking in the first place.

 

[ahh_me2]

Look around the parking lot...
What will stand out?
What will blend in?

I have 2 vans that I live out of, and for the most part they always look like they belong, of course where I go has an effect on that perception, but that's what stealth is... blending in to your surroundings!
I have a cube van, Elsie, which I know will stick out like a sore thumb in the same areas my other 2 vans blend in, so I will basically have to find new ground to park Elsie, where she will be among her "peers".

The bottom line is you have to balance your comfort with the degree of stealth acceptable to you.

 

[ahh_me2]

And based on the office park location, my first choice would be a white non-descript cube van!

 

[notabear13]

Hmm. Do you think it would blend better than the step van? The only thing is, unless I made some modifications to the body, the only way to ventilate (or get natural light) would be to open the big back door - exposing my living room to the world! I suppose this could be overcome with caution and cleaver parking, but this would still be my biggest hangup.

 

[akrvbob]

I'd go with a high top conversion van for it's stealth and it will fit in your budget.

I'm a big fan of box vans, I lived in one for 6 years. In the right situation, they can be very stealthy, that situation is not in an Office Park parking lot.

High top conversion van!
Bob

 

[notabear13]

Yeah, stealth really is a factor here since, ideally, I'll be sleeping around these lots for several years.

High top vans seem a good bit rarer than the standard ones, especially with the longer cargo area. So I'm wondering if installing a high top on a standard van would be an option in my budget. I'm assuming I would need to get it installed, as well, since it doesn't seem like the type of thing one would do with a hack saw and a screw driver.

 

[offroad]

Maybe drive around and find what others are using? Bet if you look hard you can find other stealth living folks.

 

[Almost There]

Yeah, stealth really is a factor here since, ideally, I'll be sleeping around these lots for several years.

High top vans seem a good bit rarer than the standard ones, especially with the longer cargo area. So I'm wondering if installing a high top on a standard van would be an option in my budget. I'm assuming I would need to get it installed, as well, since it doesn't seem like the type of thing one would do with a hack saw and a screw driver.

A hack saw and a screw driver won't quite do it but they're not *that* difficult to install. You'll need a good metal cutting saw and a drill!

A good place to look for the fiberglass high top is a junk yard. They can be had for just a few hundred dollars. You will have to match the body size but a lot of them are interchangeable between years/models and sometimes manufacturers - only a tape measure will tell.

It will take you and at least a couple of friends to work on it, it's definitely not a one person job.

If you go the high top route try to find one with a double hull - it's finished inside and already has insulation built in between the two layers. If you end up with a single layer one, I've documented how to work with the inside in my build thread.

Aim for a white cargo van, find a high top to install and you've got your best bet on stealth that still comes with standing room.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

A regular or high top van will probably open up many more overnight parking options than a box truck or step van.

So the question becomes, how much time will you actually be in it and awake?

You're working how many hours a week?

How much time will you be spending in health clubs, libraries, malls, cooking out in a park, etc.?

Even a mini van would be tolerable if all you do is sleep in it.

Regards
John

 

[offroad]

Get your daily routine set. Go to workout early morning before light. Go to library at night until they close. Otherwise just sleep or work. Sounds like a tough life though.

 

[notabear13]

Working 40-50 hours. Its salaried, so not much point in putting in overtime, other than looking like I'm working hard.

My current schedule looks a lot like that, offroad. Wake up, go to work, go to the rock gym 3-4 days per week, then go home to take care of chores, read books and blogs, maybe get beer with friends every other week or so. On the weekends, I'll wrangle some friends together to go climbing or backpacking, which is generally enough socialization for me for the week, since I'm fairly introverted. And then there are some things I have on the backburner right now, like trying to spin my job skills into freelance work, and doing community service (shame on me for putting it off). So I'm not too worried about twiddling my thumbs.

Only problem is, there isn't a library close by, so I'll need to scope out cafes and parks where I can read and work on my laptop. Looking deeper into tethering my phone to my laptop is also on the to do list, so I can use 3G on a big screen in my van.

 

[offroad]

The only legal tether is VERIZON as they require letting all data be used. Most other cell providers forbid unless you pay extra fee. Try Starbucks for a high speed data cafe on wifi. Worth it.

 

[DannyB1954]

Careful with a step van. I wanted to buy one but could not find insurance. The commercial carriers asked what it would be used for. Camping was not one of their categories. If you tell them one thing, and do another they can claim fraud, and not cover an accident. They also don't like it if you do not have a business.

The Rv carriers wanted documentation that the unit had already been converted. In a lot of states getting a commercial vehicle re registered as an RV is a big hassle. I asked what the insurance would cost once it was converted, they refused to say. Unless you have a recognized business that does conversions, you will be treated to a hard time. My auto carrier would not cover it as well.
Get the VIN number, then go shopping for insurance with it.
Most van conversions do not have roofs tall enough to stand up inside. Just tall enough so you don't have to crawl to get to the rear seats. You will need a high top with about a 20" rise.

I have considered for myself a extended van with the two side doors, (not a slider), no high top. Then putting a 20" lift top on it, but only cutting out the center section of the existing roof. This would give me stand up room in the middle, and tons of storage, (between the original roof and the new high top). Maybe even enough room for a sleeper. Someone looks inside, it looks empty.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[Patrick46]

Careful with a step van. I wanted to buy one but could not find insurance.

I've owned 7 different stepvans, and have never had an issue getting them insured.

AS for your rear roll-up door on a box truck...you could always remove the garage door, and build a wall with a man door in it.
not too difficult at all.

 

[DannyB1954]

I went through this less than 2 months ago. The step van was in Carson City NV. it had a 15' cargo area, a Cummins Diesel, 4 speed stick, with only 37,000 miles on it. $6,500. I called a dozen insurance carriers and about half as many brokers. I gave them the VIN, they all said no thanks. Maybe the laws that regulate insurance in your state are different.
I would still advise take the VIN, get a firm commitment from an insurance carrier before you buy.

 

[offroad]

Insurance is written for the competitive average customer mostly. Any variation from that average is considered an underwriter increased risk. Interesting topic. Am sure you can get insurance somewhere but it will not be cheap. Check into the converted school bus community and converted passenger bus community. They might have RV insurance agents who can help.

 

[Oboeterry]

Hmm. Do you think it would blend better than the step van? The only thing is, unless I made some modifications to the body, the only way to ventilate (or get natural light) would be to open the big back door - exposing my living room to the world! I suppose this could be overcome with caution and cleaver parking, but this would still be my biggest hangup.

Install a Fantastic Fan (actually called Fantastic Vent) roof vent; great for ventilation. Also, you won't be spending that much time in the van (at least I hope not)  Good luck!

 

[T.he I.nvisible M.an]

I have a Step Van I have been living in since March of this year. It has natural lighting coming through the roof the full length of the cargo area (see my post in the Misc forum for a picture). I also work out of this Step Van doing Construction, Remodeling and Handyman type work. My insurance is about 108 per month and of course the Step Van is registered to a corporation with commercial plates. That being said ... IT IS EXTREMELY STEALTHY!

I can park next to just about any other commercial vehicles for the night and leave the next morning and nobody bothers me.

The trick is to "hang out" in one area such as Starbucks or any other establishment that is open either inside or in the parking lot. When you are tired and ready to go to sleep drive to your stealth spot ... park ... then disappear through the cargo door between the seats into the back.

I routinely park near, but not too close to places like a 24 hour Denny's, 24 hour Gyms and 24 hour McDonald's (you get the idea).

There are many parking lots that have absolutely zero security or parking patrols.

My Step Van is unlabeled and Jet Black so it is very hard to see at night.

On one occasion I am driving along looking for a place to crash and I see some Box Trucks parked in the far corner of a gas station with just one space inbetween them. I decide to pull in the for the night, park between two Box Trucks (the gas station is already closed by this time) and go to sleep. I leave the next morning and relocate to a different parking lot when the sun comes up (usually near stores that open early like the Home Depo, Lowes or a Grocery Store). If I am still tired I disappear again and go back to sleep.

A different time where I am driving around looking for a place to sleep (notice that the sleeping spots are always different from where you "hang out") I see a whole fleet of white vans parked on one side of a parking lot. I pull in for the night and around 5am or so I wake up to the sound of engines starting. I get up and take a peek out my triple limo tinted rear windows (it's almost like one way mirrors) to see the entire fleet (maybe 50 vans) leaving to go where ever they go. Seeing that the activity outside seems to be non threatening I lay back down, roll over and go back to sleep. When I finally get up, get dressed and leave, the parking lot is empty, as if the fleet of white vans were never there ... (perhaps just a figment of my imagination) ... haha

Some places the parking lots are Huge and there are businesses that share the edges of the parking but have no authority over the parking lot. There is one such parking lot that comes up behind a Starbucks where I then get free Wifi all night.

Construction crews work on various commercial building both during the daytime and the nighttime. The trick to blending in there is figure out when they are around working (you can park near but not too close) or if they are gone you park right next to whatever equipment or vehicles they left for the next day or night.

Also if there are multiple businesses it's a fairly safe bet that you can park at least one time since usually none of the businesses will have the adjacent business's cars or trucks towed. This is especially true if you go into the sleeping mode after everything is closed.

Many times a business will park a Box Truck or Van out front advertising their services (these are great to park next to after the business is closed).

I usually do not park in the same spot multiple days in a row (unless I know for sure that nobody cares). One of the exceptions to this rule is if I can find a parking lot, that is always empty, near a business, where that establishment has no authority over the adjacent parking lot. These are premium spots to be tagged with a gps where you can find relief if necessary from constantly moving around. Of course you can never set up a camp site or even hang out up front. And if you are smart you won't abuse such a find even if "nobody cares".

I am currently parking at just such a spot, right next to a major grocery store, where the grocery store has no control or say over the parking on one side of the building. For the Grocery Store I am sure the few people that see me here on occasion might wonder if I have some parking deal with the larger office complex next door. And for the office complex, since I park right up to the Grocery Store, I am fairly sure they think I have something to do with the grocery store as maintenance or a worker or who knows. But since this is in the "back 40" of the office complex parking lot nobody seems to care.

If I walk towards the front and go up a small hill and around the corner I am at one of my favorite grocery stores (my own gigantic pantry) that is open from 6am in the morning until 1am at night complete with restrooms facilities and a side area lounge with seating, electric plugs and free WiFi. I can be out of the van and into the store in about a minute.

So far I have not been bothered by the Police (knock on wood), or towed, or had my tires booted.

Even in parking lots where there is a visible "security patrol" I find that as long as I am parking near to a store that is open they usually don't bother me. If I see that the security patrol seems to be zeroing in on me I make a point of getting out and walking into the store just as they are driving past. Perhaps I use the restroom and return outside or if you aren't short on cash then a small purchase of something you need then return outside. Worst case spend an hour here then move a short distance ... rinse and repeat until you are ready to sleep and even the security patrol won't bother you. I am at the point where some of them recognize me and wave. When this happens I hang around less and move around more.

And now you know partially why I chose T.he I.visible M.an as my name for the forum ...   

T.I.M.