Live off grid, lose your kids?

[VanLifeCrisis]

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/off-the-grid-parents-lose-custody-of-10-kids-118797263547.html

I was always worried they would do this to someone, especially after that incident with that lady in florida.  Are people on the road with kids at risk too?

The Nauglers did not respond to a request for comment made through their website. But their Save Our Family website answers questions about their living conditions, explaining that they have a wood stove for heat, an “open cabin” made of metal and tarps, a composting toilet, a pond with potable water, and a generator for power. They explain that they are naturopaths who would “seek professional medical care if it was needed,” and that they make an income from a pet grooming business.

Its kinda funny, people lived with less for centuries and kids grew up fine...

 

[Theadyn]

Wow, talk about over-reaching. This concerns me some, as a lot of their ways is pretty much what my daughter intends with her children when she has them. I wish the best for them.

 

[Almost There]

Darn, one keystroke and lost it all.

The politics of CYS and our educational systems aside, I suspect that the living conditions and failure to enroll the kids in home schooling has more to do with it than 'living off the grid'.

There are thousands of families all over North America who live off the grid without any interference from authorities. Some of them use traditional education, some home school.

I have families living within 20 minutes drive of here who live off the grid in anything from traditional housing to rather innovative 'green' housing, all with no problems from authorities.

I suspect that this families problems stem from 2 things - they are living in 'housing' formed from leftover scraps of sheet metal and tarps. No windows, no insulation, no doors. While Kentucky enjoys a much milder climate than, say, Wisconsin, it isn't a tropical climate year round.

The other problem is, right or wrong, depending on your political views, each state requires that children be enrolled in an educational system of one kind or another. Home schooling requires adherence to specified standards. The parents admit to 'unschooling' their kids, so I suspect that these kids are not enrolled anywhere.

I don't see 'off the grid' as being the problem here so, no, in answer to DG's original question of 'what about 'on the road kids', probably not.

If the 'housing' is a broken down, deteriorated, leaking old relic parked somewhere and the kids aren't enrolled in a program in their state of legal residency, then maybe. What I see of the families on the road, they are abiding by schooling regulations and travelling in at least driveable vehicles. They may raise a few eyebrows but then that's to be expected whenever one moves out of 'normal'!

 

[GotSmart]

It all depends on the local LEO and the power that CPS has.


I had an extremely nasty case with CPS in Missouri.  They banned me from having any contact with my children due to accusations made by my (soon to be) ex wife.

My lawyer subpoenaed the CPS worker the sheriff, school and college administration...  Needless to say I ended up with full custody of my daughters.  CPS demoted the worker in the case to phone duty as the judge picked her out as an example of the abuse of power of the system. To this day I have to almost fight with my daughters to have them call their mother for her birthday, mothers day and christmas. 

There are many documented cases of CPS taking children as once a child is in their system, they generate lots of money for different sub contractors in the care and housing.  

Here are the Kentucky laws, as this is about Kentucky parents.

 The Kentucky constitution establishes the prerogatives of the parents to choose the formal education for the child. Therefore, parents may choose to have their child educated in a private school of their choice, including homeschool.



KRS 159.010



If a parent chooses this option, they take complete responsibility for educating their child. The parent/guardian selects the curriculum and educational materials.  There is no state financial assistance for families who choose this option.  

Since this has hit national attention, the HSLDA (Home school legal defence association) will be all over this to get the kids back. 

From what I see between the lines, this is a case of non schooling rather than home schooling. Dealing with the educational needs of 10 children of different ages would be a full time job. I homeschooled one child to get her away from an abusive teacher one year.  The local HS community was extremely supportive with offers by different parents to teach different subjects.  

https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/1ea3e2964315fcf5a962c2cb0d0cb059a6c6fcb6.jpg  

 

[LeeRevell]

There is a LOT of the back story not in most 'news' articles on this event. The back story is trickling out, and that family is not the nice mild mannered family just minding their own business they are played up to be. Lets see what shakes out as more info comes to light. And this has little if anything to do with the van-dwelling folks.

 

[Canine]

From what I can understand according to the reports I have read,This is a clear case of child abuse.What parents would want their children to live in squalor,uneducated and lacking basic amenities.Sounds like some kind of religious nuts to me.

 

[GotSmart]

My 2 cents

 

[compassrose]

There's more to this story. I don't know about Kentucky but I "unschooled" my kids. I don't know what you think unschooling is but I most certainly know. Unschooling is teaching without a textbook and using a loose, fluid method of teaching. We pulled our two girls out of SC public school at the end of the third grade. I had to backtrack thru their basic educational requirements when I realized that they, and their friends in the girl scout troop did not know anything they were to have "learned" in the third grade as the teachers "taught to the test" and that was all they were interested in. The girls were burned out on school. I had to come up with a way to may learning fun again. I started out with some little workbooks called "Comprehensive Curriculum of Basic Skills" for the third grade. This worked out great and laid the basis for how I would teach the girls. They enjoyed the little games and stuff in the book. Plus they were learning again. Bribery worked for getting them to reading again (only certain types of book counted, like classic literature) but that got pretty pricey after a while. But we had made the commitment so we paid up. I used the Comprehensive Curriculum for several years (they are now sold in Sams Clubs and go up to 6th grade ). Tossed into the mix were crafts, experiments, museum trips, movies and books. All chosen to teach. The only "real" textbook we used was a teachers edition math book written for Adult Ed. I would pick and choose the math problems that was noted for their grade level. I wrote up their own little quiz sheets after showing them the hows and whys of how to solve the problem which was based on real world usage (like figuring the square footage of a room then figuring out how much carpet in square yards would be needed to cover that room). In SC all I had to do was register with the state. In TN, I had to use an umbrella school (Family Christian Academy was the best I found and I did not homeschool for religious reasons). The girls took 3 day SAT's (Stanford Achievement Test not the dumbed down stuff the TN public schools were using) in the 6th, 9th, 10th, 11th & 12th grades. They have a high school diploma. Their last year of SAT scores put them in the top 5% of the US. I homeschooled while living fulltime in a pop-up camper. I took the homeschool teaching course given by Bob Jones University before I started homeschooling (computers were not that big when we started). By the time their girls were in the 9th grade, I had one who was into astronomy and scored really high in the Algebra part of the SAT's (thanks to the interest in astronomy) and the other who could figure construction related math problems since she worked in construction with her Dad a lot. They had a computer and were well into "self-teaching". They can usually find any info they want on most any subject they are interested. Means that they will learn for the rest of their lives, which is as it should be.

As for the story, I have read the yahoo article, glimpsed at their blog and read the blub on the gimme page. Makes me wonder. Something does not sound right. I too would have concerns about the kids living under those conditions. They are living thru winter under conditions that most would object to for a dog. It gets colder in KY than it does in Chattanooga TN where we were living in the popup in the winter. We lived in public parks too. Yes, the park rangers did talk to my kids. They liked our kids. I believe they interceded at least once on our behalf with the local cops because my kids "were not in school". But Chattanooga is very friendly to the mobile residents.

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

Where are you guys getting that they were taken for educational reasons?

following an anonymous police complaint about the family’s living conditions — which allegedly include residing under a crude tarp construction, having no heat or running water, and having no septic system (which the Nauglers dispute)

Wood is heat, and outhouse/composting toilet is toilet. There is a water source on the property. Who cares if the walls are made out of as long as they are warm. The wood heater my family uses would heat a tent shelter easily. Maybe it was for educational reasons but i didnt see that in the article.

 

[GotSmart]

Compassrose;

What you are describing is homeschooling at its best.  Your children had a real and deliberate program of learning.   :angel: 

DazarGadin;

The pictures I saw of their dwelling did not have more than a stake wall.   

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/1ea3e2964315fcf5a962c2cb0d0cb059a6c6fcb6.jpg[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]  [/font]


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]IMHO, the wrong things were focused on, as most of the members of this forum could build a solid dwelling given a lot of helpers.  (Many children)[/font]


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Here is the complete paragraph from which your quote came from.[/font]


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font='Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The court’s decision came several days after authorities removed the children from their home, following an anonymous police complaint about the family’s living conditions — which allegedly include residing under a crude tarp construction, having no heat or running water, and having no septic system (which the Nauglers dispute). But many of their supporters believe they’re being targeted for their lifestyle, which includes living off the power grid, birthing children at home, and relying on “unschooling,” which is a less structured approach to homeschooling.[/font]
[/font]

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

right, i thought the second bit was just speculation on others part.

 

[GotSmart]

right, i thought the second bit was just speculation on others part.

I was part of a homeschooling group.  Every member was investigated to find any reason for the government to step in.  We were all told to use these words. "Do you have a warrant?" 

IMHO, this case threw up enough flags to where that was a small issue.  But that is usually the first flag thrown up.  Home birth, water from a non running source... I would be shocked if the IRS was not involved.  But they have so many kids and only pet grooming as an income.  

 

[arizonatruck]

People would have a problem with ten kids in 2 or 3 vans as well.

There are military style tents that are fairly large for about 1,000 and provide better insulation than random metal scraps and use the wood stoves for heating. The problem with "news" stories, is that they are designed to stir peoples emotions. Although, children have been taken just for accusations. There are people living in relative squalor within the normal societal housing of suburbia.

My children will be educated via homeschooling, but not just via regular curriculum. The three r's will be taught. Once the basics are taught, they will be using real world problems, not just the theory in a classroom. I remembered how to do square footage of a circle and such, as well as how to figure out the hypotenuse of a triangle, but did not realize how i could use them until I used them in landscape construction and estimations for work.

 

[cdiggy]

There's more to this story. I don't know about Kentucky but I "unschooled" my kids. I don't know what you think unschooling is but I most certainly know. Unschooling is teaching without a textbook and using a loose, fluid method of teaching. We pulled our two girls out of SC public school at the end of the third grade. I had to backtrack thru their basic educational requirements when I realized that they, and their friends in the girl scout troop did not know anything they were to have "learned" in the third grade as the teachers "taught to the test" and that was all they were interested in. The girls were burned out on school. I had to come up with a way to may learning fun again. I started out with some little workbooks called "Comprehensive Curriculum of Basic Skills" for the third grade. This worked out great and laid the basis for how I would teach the girls. They enjoyed the little games and stuff in the book. Plus they were learning again. Bribery worked for getting them to reading again (only certain types of book counted, like classic literature) but that got pretty pricey after a while. But we had made the commitment so we paid up. I used the Comprehensive Curriculum for several years (they are now sold in Sams Clubs and go up to 6th grade ). Tossed into the mix were crafts, experiments, museum trips, movies and books. All chosen to teach. The only "real" textbook we used was a teachers edition math book written for Adult Ed. I would pick and choose the math problems that was noted for their grade level. I wrote up their own little quiz sheets after showing them the hows and whys of how to solve the problem which was based on real world usage (like figuring the square footage of a room then figuring out how much carpet in square yards would be needed to cover that room). In SC all I had to do was register with the state. In TN, I had to use an umbrella school (Family Christian Academy was the best I found and I did not homeschool for religious reasons). The girls took 3 day SAT's (Stanford Achievement Test not the dumbed down stuff the TN public schools were using) in the 6th, 9th, 10th, 11th & 12th grades. They have a high school diploma. Their last year of SAT scores put them in the top 5% of the US. I homeschooled while living fulltime in a pop-up camper. I took the homeschool teaching course given by Bob Jones University before I started homeschooling (computers were not that big when we started). By the time their girls were in the 9th grade, I had one who was into astronomy and scored really high in the Algebra part of the SAT's (thanks to the interest in astronomy) and the other who could figure construction related math problems since she worked in construction with her Dad a lot. They had a computer and were well into "self-teaching". They can usually find any info they want on most any subject they are interested. Means that they will learn for the rest of their lives, which is as it should be.

As for the story, I have read the yahoo article, glimpsed at their blog and read the blub on the gimme page. Makes me wonder. Something does not sound right. I too would have concerns about the kids living under those conditions. They are living thru winter under conditions that most would object to for a dog. It gets colder in KY than it does in Chattanooga TN where we were living in the popup in the winter. We lived in public parks too. Yes, the park rangers did talk to my kids. They liked our kids. I believe they interceded at least once on our behalf with the local cops because my kids "were not in school". But Chattanooga is very friendly to the mobile residents.

You must be so proud!

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

Here is an even more disturbing one, this time they were camping for 9 days, they were planning on staying for summer to see what being offgrid was like before buying the homestead. They actually owned a regular house, etc. They got their kids back by using a loophole that makes it harder for cps to kidnap native american children.

http://www.offthegridnews.com/curre...6-children-simply-because-family-was-camping/