List of solar components

[StarEcho]

Hi all,

I read the thread where someone asked for a list of what they needed to buy for their solar panel system and did do a search, but I can't find what I'm looking for.

I just want a basic entry level system, 200W and 30amp pwm

So I have these in my cart on Amazon:

• 2x WindyNation 100W Solar Panel
• WindyNation P30L LCD PWM 30A Solar Panel Regulator Charge Controller
• (2 Sets) Solar Panel Z Bracket Mount
• 20 FEET UL Solar Panel Extension Cable Wire (20 ft.) with MC4 Connectors PV - 10 AWG - 600VDC
• 2x Odyssey 30A MC4 Solar PV In-Line Fuse Holder Waterproof w/ Fuse 30 Amp

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FE45FD4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2TN19FHI2Z5KL

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JMLPP12/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2TN19FHI2Z5KL

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G5Q7CXG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2TN19FHI2Z5KL

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KDQX1MK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2TN19FHI2Z5KL

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J954BTI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AI4V8J406TIRL

I plan to install them at RTR, by myself if I have to but hopefully with help.

In any case I'm also hoping that someone here can let me know if there is anything else I need to purchase to get a system working.

I already have a 190AH 12V battery in my trailer so these will be to charge that battery. I do have a generator though if I need it. I'd just prefer not to use it. My trailer is only 10 ft long so I think 20 feet of cable is more than enough, right? Eventually I plan to get tilting mounts and mppt controller, but this will do the job initially I think.

All of the items listed above are prime eligible so I should be able to get it all next Tues or Wed. *IF* nothing gets broken en route. I initially was going to go the renogy route, but I liked the pwm from windy nation and I thought it might be better to get the panels and controller from the same company. And I have friends here that have gotten the windy nation panels and they really like them so.... any thoughts on that?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Duck]

I'd skip the extension cable, just use some 10AWG stranded wire(marine stores sell it by the foot). Cut to size which minimizes your power losses, crimp and heat shrink and you don't have extra connectors to corrode, fall apart or fail.
I'd skip that fuse holder, and get one that uses a standard blade fuse holder, cheaper and this lets you use the fuses you find at almost any auto parts place or gas station in the event of an issue.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Well, you'll need some heavier wires - say 6 gauge - to go from the controller to the battery, and an appropriately sized fuse in the positive wire.

Have you been to the WindyNation web site? They've got some educational articles there on choosing wire sizes and fusing solar systems.

Regards
John

 

[TucsonAZ]

The panels look good and you're on the right track for sure. How large of a system are you wanting to get? I ask so that you can attempt to do a little future proofing right out of the gate. If it were me, I would get this CC:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B11SSVA/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AU5MW0P13QZ5V

The display on the one you're getting will be all but worthless anyway. By getting the one I mentioned, you could series the two panels on the roof and by doing that you'll save on some wiring which will pay for the additional cost of the CC by itself. You'll also have less voltage loss by using the higher voltage and won't have to deal with a combiner box or any of that headache.

Now that I look at it, I'm not sure if you can do the 24v in with a 12v bank on that CC, you'll have to ask about that or maybe somebody can chime in.

And yes, you will need heavier wire, 6 or even 4 gauge to go from the CC to the battery and a breaker for the inverter connection if you're using an inverter. A fuse will work but for as little as $10-$15 on ebay I have seen marine breakers like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...419758031&sr=8-12&keywords=marine+breaker+60a

That would be my choice since you will only need one, just make certain it's sized properly for your inverter and wire size.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

You can download the controller manual from the WindyNation site.

Looks like the terminals on that controller won't accept 6 gauge wire, you may have to use 8 gauge, in which case keep the run between the controller and battery as short as you can. They specify a 40 amp fuse on the output.

There is apparently an optional Battery Temp Sensor for that controller, which I would DEFINITELY add to the system.

Regards
John

 

[christine]

You'll have to figure out if you want to wire the two solar panels in series or in parallel. Series would probably be easier. I mention that because if you're wiring in series, don't forget that you'll need 2 MC4 extension cables--one for the positive, and one for the negative.

And if you're wiring them in parallel, you'll need a pair of MC4 branch connectors in addition to the extension cables. Just beware of the voltage drop that can occur over the 20 ft span of your trailer because MC4 cables are typically only 10 or 12 AWG. http://www.amazon.com/MISOL-Paralle...19758195&sr=8-1&keywords=mc4+branch+connector

I'll mention that you could actually get creative with the wires--meaning you don't have to use MC4 cables. You could theoretically use any copper wire thick enough to withstand the amperage, but MC4 cables are nice because they are UV resistant and waterproof.

You'll also need cable and lugs to attach the charge controller to the battery. Check the user manual of the charge controller and look for the maximum size wire it'll take, and use that.

You might want to look into a 12 volt fuse block to distribute the power among your 12 volt appliances, if you have more than 2. Blue Sea makes good ones.

I have a love affair with fuses and switches. I put both a fuse and a switch on the positive wire going from:
- the solar panels to the charge controller
- the charge controller to the batteries
- the batteries to a 12 volt fuse block

Not everyone puts fuses and switches everywhere like I did, but I really like it. The switches are really handy. I used Marinco 701 switches.
http://www.amazon.com/Marinco-701-B...eywords=marinco+701+battery+disconnect+switch

Hope that helps!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

By getting the one I mentioned, you could series the two panels on the roof and by doing that you'll save on some wiring which will pay for the additional cost of the CC by itself. You'll also have less voltage loss by using the higher voltage and won't have to deal with a combiner box or any of that headache.

My understanding is that when two or more panels are wired in parallel, shade on one panel only affects the output of that one panel.

When two or more panels are wired in series, shade on any one panel will seriously degrade the output of the whole system.

Series wiring may be a good idea (for the technical reasons you mentioned) on residential systems, where you can remove any trees that might cause a shade problem, but on RVs, I don't see it as a good idea.

Regards
John

 

[wagoneer]

The only beef I have with smaller controllers is limited wire size. Bigger wire = better wire.

 

[jimindenver]

The panels look good and you're on the right track for sure. How large of a system are you wanting to get? I ask so that you can attempt to do a little future proofing right out of the gate. If it were me, I would get this CC:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B11SSVA/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AU5MW0P13QZ5V

The display on the one you're getting will be all but worthless anyway. By getting the one I mentioned, you could series the two panels on the roof and by doing that you'll save on some wiring which will pay for the additional cost of the CC by itself. You'll also have less voltage loss by using the higher voltage and won't have to deal with a combiner box or any of that headache.

Now that I look at it, I'm not sure if you can do the 24v in with a 12v bank on that CC, you'll have to ask about that or maybe somebody can chime in.

And yes, you will need heavier wire, 6 or even 4 gauge to go from the CC to the battery and a breaker for the inverter connection if you're using an inverter. A fuse will work but for as little as $10-$15 on ebay I have seen marine breakers like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...419758031&sr=8-12&keywords=marine+breaker+60a

That would be my choice since you will only need one, just make certain it's sized properly for your inverter and wire size.

I looked at the MPPT controller linked and from seeing the insides I can tell you that it isn't MPPT. There is no induction coil that would be the buck converter needed to convert higher voltage to 12v.There are other signs like input voltages but the lack of a induction coil is the easiest to see.

The least expensive functional MPPT controller that I know of now is the Eco-Worthy 20a MPPT controller at $102 shipped. It has its limitations but is a true MPPT unit.

In any event spending extra on a MPPT controller for 200w isn't going to net you much of a gain. You would be able to use lighter wires from the panels to the controller if the panels were in series and a 8-10% gain in output. You would be better off buying a third panel in my opinion.

I haven't checked lately but windy nation had 200w kits for $300 or less a while back.

 

[AuricTech]

Looking at the WindyNation P30L charge controller owner's manual (PDF), I don't see any way to set the Voltage for Bulk, Absorb or Float stages. Since different battery architectures require different settings, that in itself would lead me to steer clear of this charge controller.

 

[RogueRV2]

Just a quick look at what you are doing. Your 20 foot 10AWG wire will easily handle the load with only a 3% loss in voltage, so you are in good shape there. The voltage loss will even be less when you cut off the excess that is not need. The 20 foot wire will likely become closer to 15 feet and perhaps less, and the voltage loss will therefore be right at a 2% loss, or less. That is quite acceptable.


One of problems of using the entry level and the least expensive or 'cheap' Renology CC's is that they do not have a temperature sensor and compensate, and do not charge at a higher voltage as the temperature drops. When this happens, the batteries will not be fully charged. At least make sure that your CC is not without this feature and has a remote temperature sensor. An Mppt CC is not much of an advantage unless you have at least 400 watts. It is better to put the money into more panels than an expensive CC until you've reach that 400 watt threshold, or until you have run out of roof space.


Looks like you are going to get lots of help and perhaps a bit of a headache sorting it all out. Fortunately it looks like you are already got a good list of parts to start with. Compare your parts list with a prepackage and complete system offering. At this point, the only change I would confirm that the CC has a remote temperature sensor. I choose a Morningstar Sunsaver Duo as a high quality and reliable CC, and because it allows one to charge a second set of batteries. This means you can add a new battery along with the still good, but weaker old battery to achieve or exceed a 1 watt to 1Ah of panel/battery capacity ratio, or to charge the vehicle battery when the vehicle may not be driven for some period of time. It's like having two charge controllers in one unit, and it will handle up to 400 watts on the roof. It also has the remote temperature sensor option.

 

[jimindenver]

Extreme heat calls for a temp sensor too. Normal voltages in the heat will cook your battery.

When it comes to a temp sensor, you want the kind that connects to the battery, not ambient. I say this because we wake up to close to freezing temps, those can rise to the 90's during the day only to fall again at night. A ambient sensor would have higher voltages early and lower later on but the temperature of the battery itself is much more stable due to its mass. The voltage will be to high in the morning and too low later on. Having the probe on the battery will let the controller know what is the right voltage regardless of ambient temp.

 

[blars]

If your panels use MC4 connectors, you need one extension cable (to cut in half) for each panel to connect them in parallel. You need a mppt controler to hook them in series, but that is not recomended for shading reasons.

 

[StarEcho]

Wow, thanks to everyone who has replied! Now my head hurts! :-/

I had no knowledge about temperature sensors so that was a good heads up, thanks!

Re the charge controller, I really want to see numbers and figures and the controllers that come with "kits" don't seem to have that. Red and green lights don't really do it for me. I did find a lcd controller from Renogy finally so I'll probably get that. And I realized that the panels I had in my cart were polycrystalline. I switched them out for the Renogy ones which are mono. Probably doesn't make a huge difference but wth...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...le_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A05654602L3XUQ70M87BV

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...le_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A05654602L3XUQ70M87BV

My choices have a lot to do with Amazon Prime status and being able to get 2 day free shipping. Sometimes what might work fine isn't Prime and at this point I just want to get the simplest thing that will work reasonably well and get on with it. If I wait until I can get the very best and most comprehensive system, I know me and it won't happen. And since it has taken me this long to be able to afford even this, it's too late to wait for non-Prime shipping to get to me. Does that reasoning make sense?

The other hardware is very confusing for me, what is needed. I think I might just wait on those and beg someone to go to the store with me and show me what I need. I'm assuming there is somewhere there to get parts for solar? The panels will be on either side of the roof vent width wise, so I don't think there will be much of a run at all. The battery is on the drivers side at the rear... the cc could be located about 3 feet above it and I was thinking the cable from the panels could be routed through the roof vent and then we're talking about less than 10 feet to the controller, going to the corner, down and over. So I don't think I need a whole lot of cable and there shouldn't be much loss from long runs, right?

I'm not overly stupid but seriously my eyes were glazing over as I read many of the replies. :s But I'll re-re-re-read until it starts to make sense. LOL I do appreciate all the info, though!!!

I do have some followup questions. What is the "load" stuff for the controller? What would I have plugged into that slot? I don't really plan on using an inverter. My laptop and tablet both have 12v adapters. Most of my other stuff is usb charging and what isn't I can charge while running a generator maybe once a week or with a smaller inverter in the car if I do any running around.

From what I read people plug lights into that spot? What I don't understand is does "load" pertain to power taken directly from the solar panels rather than from the batteries? If so, why in the world would you need lights during the day which would be the only time you COULD take from the solar panels?

I was just hoping to charge my one battery each day and use my fused 12 volt outlets with usb to power whatever I needed to power. No huge drains or anything. This would basically be a test to see what I DO really need in the way of power.

Thanks again for any advice.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

What is the "load" stuff for the controller? What would I have plugged into that slot?

The short answer is that you don't have to plug anything into the load. Just ignore it.

If you're really curious, the long answer, from Northern Arizona Wind and Sun, is:

"Some controllers also have a "LOAD", or LVD output, which can be used for smaller loads, such as small appliances and lights. The advantage is that the load terminals have a low voltage disconnect, so it will turn off whatever is connected to the load terminals and keep from running the battery down too far. The LOAD output is often used for small non-critical loads, such as lights. A few, such as the Xantrex C12, can also be used as a lighting controller, to turn lights on at dark, but the Morningstar SLC lighting controller is usually a better choice for that. Do not use the LOAD output to run any but very small inverters. Inverters can have very high surge currents and may blow the controller
.
Most systems do not need the LVD function - it can drive only smaller loads. Depending on the rating of the controller, this may be from 6 to 60 amps. You cannot run any but the smallest inverter from the LOAD output. On some controllers, such as the Morningstar SS series, the load output can be used to drive a heavy duty relay for load control, gen start etc. The LOAD or LVD output is most often used in RV & remote systems, such as camera, monitor, and cell phone sites where the load is small and the site is unattended."

Regards
John

 

[cdiggy]

Do yourself a favor and read this:
http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/
It has everything you would need explained in detail. I learned a heck of a lot from his website and will point you in the right direction. Just start a pot of coffee before you start the read. I had to read it twice and I need to read it again. Great reference page.

 

[RogueRV2]

handybobsolar is an excellent read. Solar isn't difficult, yet there is much to know if one will do it correctly. In your case I might go with the Renology package deal, but use the LCD display unit that comes with the remote temperature sensor. This uses the smaller monocrstyaline panels that will fit easier on a 10 foot trailer.

http://www.renogy-store.com/200W-RV-Kit-ViewStar-p/kit-rv200d-vs.htm




Or go for the inexpensive MPPT CC in this 200 watt starter kit. However, confirm that it has a remote battery temperature sensor. This kit uses the larger polycrystalline panels. Space matters on a small roof. Using the smaller monocrytaline panels in the other kit may allow one to install a third or fourth panel down the road:

http://www.renogy-store.com/200W-Premium-Kit-p/kit-premium200p.htm

Take two pills and read all of this again in the morning!

 

[akrvbob]

Oh my goodness is that all way too much information!!! Perfect is very often the enemy of plenty good enough and I think that's going on here.

Everything you have planned is fine, it's a great entry level system and will serve you very well. Chances are that over time you may want to upgrade it and that's normal. It's not perfect, but it's plenty good enough just as you have it planned. Best of all you understand it and can make it happen. A perfect plan you can't understand or implement is your enemy right now.

There are two extremely well stocked solar stores in town and half the tents sell tools, electrical and solar stuff so getting what you need here will be easy. Also, you can get UPS and FedEx packages delivered here for $1 so you can get anything you need from Amazon.

Several things:

1) Blars point was one to remember, you're going to cut the extension cord in half to get the male and female on the two ends. So your 20 foot cord is going to be 10 feet. Is that enough?

2) 8 gauage would be better but I don't believe Amazon sells MC4 in 8 gauge so going with the 10 gauge will work just fine for such a short run. You want to have the MC4 connectors so go ahead and buy that one.

3) The difference between poly and mono is usually almost nothing. Compare the dimensions and if there is much difference consider it, but otherwise it is pretty meaningless.

4) The temperture gauge is good, get it if you can, but in no way is it a deal-breaker.

5) I'm not in love with a fuse inside an MC4 connector. Those things are hard to get open and I wouldn't want to do it often. An in-line blade fuse is simple, cheap and easy, I'd get that. Plus, you want one of them at the positive post of the battery and an MC4 is a bad idea there. You can get in-line fuse holder here no problem.

I'm probably missing something, if so feel free to ask.
Bob

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

i just use the mc4 wires to connect panels (there are y connectors to make them parallel..i actually bought a 4 way split for future upgrading), then immediately ran them through to inside. once inside i switched to regular 10g wiring, and run that immediately to charge controller which was on the wall near the hole (dont forget rubber gromets) I put my battery bank near the charge controller so a small run of 10g from controller to battery. I didnt bother fusing on this side of the battery...but its not a bad thing. Not sure why you need a run of 20ft outdoor cable unless you have to connect panels on opposite side of roof?

 

[jimindenver]

3) The difference between poly and mono is usually almost nothing. Compare the dimensions and if there is much difference consider it, but otherwise it is pretty meaningless.

What fits on your roof is the most important thing but....

I have been testing mono's vs polys side by side for three years now. Mono's are advertized as more efficient because they have a smaller foot print for the same wattage. Unfortunately that smaller footprint cost you in total bright light amps and really affects the low light abilities. The Voc on both my 220w and 245w monos drop like a rock with the thinnest cloud cover. The 245w drops from a solid 17a to 2,38a and it takes more light in the morning to get it to produce enough to wake the system.

My 230w poly wakes up at first light. At peak it is less than a half of a amp below the 245w mono but it keeps collecting in cloud cover all the way down to getting 4a out of pea soup thick enough that I was really only pointing the panel at the brightest spot in the clouds. For this being "sunny Colorado" our norm is sun from dawn to noon and then clouds the rest of the day. That means for half a day my single 230w poly will collect more than the pair of mono's could.

Not many get to do side by side testing and when I first reported this on the RV forums 3 years ago I was told I was wrong, didn't understand, needed a better controller and even that my mono panels were faulty. Since then others have confirmed what I've seen and going that route themselves. Me, I'm in the process of selling off all of the mono systems and rebuilding with poly. I'll probably go with a pair of 300w polys and a TS-MPPT-45 or three 250w polys with a TS-MPPT-60. I'll keep the 230w poly system as a portable because being able to point it at the rising sun is wonderful. 10a at 6am, 14 amp by 7am, 16a for the rest of the day as long as the sun shines.