Inverter Chargers

[GoingMobile]

I have most of my house battery charging in place, 400 Watts of solar panels on the roof, DC to DC charger for charging while driving. The last component would be an Inverter/Charger for charging from shore power and using an Insta-Pot and a couple of other AC devices.

I had previously used a Xantrex 1000 watt inverter in another vehicle. It had AC outlets to plug devices or cords into. I had heard good things about Victron Inverter/Chargers, particularly with Lithium Batteries, but looking at them there is nowhere to plug anything in. I had already used an outdoor extension cord to bring power from the inverter to an outlet on the opposite wall of the van where the kitchen counter will be. I left the plug on where the inverter will be, thinking it would just be a matter of plugging into the outlet on the inverter when it was time. I imagine I can strip the wire ends and wire the cord to the inverter internally somewhere. They're pricey too compared to other inverters I've seen. Are they that good?

I think I would like to have at least 2000 watts from the inverter. I don't like campgrounds, so I'm unsure how often I'll be charging the battery bank with that method, but I'd like to have that go as fast, safe and as smooth as possible when I use it.

Any recommendations for inverter chargers?

 

[highdesertranger]

For me, I don't like the combo units. If one thing goes bad then you need to buy a whole new unit. Good electronics are not cheap. I have a Xantrex inverter and a Boondocker charger. Highdesertranger

 

[wayne49]

Simply cutting the plug off of a cord and wiring directly to the AC power source without a circuit breaker would not be safe.

I do the same as HDR does, I have two AC charging units, Boondocker 100A and Progressive Dynamics 45A chargers, each was purchased for different reasons. They are not installed/used at the same time. Inverters are separate devices.

 

[wayne49]

My RV, a class C, has a converter/charger unit for the house that provides AC and supplies a charge to the battery bank when connected to shore power. That has an AC panel with breakers and a DC side that has fuses.

No need for that in a do it yourself build out.

 

[GoingMobile]

So Wayne49, I'm gathering from what you've said, with an inverter that has outlets, I could plug an appliance, say an Insta-Pot,  directly into the inverter? (otherwise, what are those outlets for?) But not an extension cord wired to an outlet to plug the appliance into?

And the AC coming out of the inverter should go to an AC panel with breakers prior to a wall outlet I could plug the appliance into?

 

[bullfrog]

You run into problems when you start combining circuits. You are better off using a just big enough inverter only when not on shore power. In fact many use smaller individual inverters for appliances as they don't waste as much power and run directly from the battery to the inverter which has a plug in for an appliance so it is not possible to combine circuits. When you use a larger inverter without plugins and use existing AC outlets that can be connected to shore power you must insure the inverter and the shore power can never be connected at the same time by using a transfer switch or some arrangement where it is impossible to have them connected at the same time. All circuits should have some sort of breaker for protection, with 2000 watts of ac power you are producing close to 20 Amps of current. most house circuits are normally wired for and protected by a 15 Amp breaker. Check the manufactures instillation instructions and recommendations before hooking up anything.

 

[jimindenver]

The outlet in a inverter as well as the output of a hardwired inverter charger is protected by a internal circuit breaker rated for the output of the inverter. On a 2000 watt inverter you will be protected by at most a 20 amp circuit breaker no matter if it's just a inverter that you plug into or a inverter charger that is hardwired.

You can add a 15 amp circuit breaker in a box if you are using lighter wires and outlets rated for 15 amps. Then again for the cost of the circuit breaker box and circuit breakers you could upgrade the wiring to 12 gauge and the outlets rated for 20 amps with GFI and still be protected by the internal circuit breaker in the inverter.

What a circuit breaker box in this situation does do for you is give you the ability to turn off and isolate individual circuits.

Now then, if you are going with a larger inverter, say 3000 watts, you do need to protect the individual circuits with a box and circuit breakers just like a RV has to because they are plugged into shore power poles with either 30 or 50 amp service. Now you have more power than your standard 15 amp or even heavy duty 20 amp outlet is built for along with the rated wiring.

It is true that if you go with a all in one unit like the Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 for $670 and part of it fails, you have to send the whole thing back under warranty or replace/repair it out of warranty. That however is balanced out by convenience of use, installation, space required and cost.
You have one set of wires coming in from the batteries with a switch and fuse just like a stand alone inverter like the Xantrex Prowatt 2000 for $364
The 120 volt wires coming and going from a 30 amp transfer switch costing $80 are the same

You will be able to wire a converter into the transfer switch but it's going to need a additional set of wires and fuse going to the batteries. This one is 80 amp for $280 like the all in one unit.

In the end you will spend around $200 more in additional component, wire, switch and fuse cost. More time and effort to install and a considerably larger amount of room.

So it's 6 in one hand and a half a dozen in the other. I have done it both ways. I have not had a failure of the components either way in four plus years but then again I only install the higher end products staying away from rebranded products like Renogy or lower quality like epever. Those products can be just fine as long as you accept the responsibility for your choice to save money when you deal with lower quality, slower speeds and fewer features.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Inverter/chargers make a lot of sense if your RV life is primarily going from power hookup to power hookup, or RV park to RV park, with little or no solar input to keep things topped up in between, and you need to be able to use lots of power and live off-grid and run hair dryers and microwaves and 55" TVs in between those hookups as if you were on-grid. In that case, yeah, a hardwired 2000 watt or 3000 watt inverter/charger like the GoPower units makes sense. Kinda.

But if your RV patterns are more casual and you have good solar charging in most cases, you boondock a lot (maybe run a generator once in awhile) and you plan on cutting back on your power use as much as possible, and paying for those nightly (or every other night) RV hookups makes your skin crawl...then it might be better to buy two separate devices:

A charger sized for your occasional shore power hookup just to top-up the house batteries, and an inverter (or maybe two) properly sized for the infrequent and smaller loads you expect to need 120v AC for.

Just consider what your expected power needs will be and go from there.

 

[GoingMobile]

Thanks for the replies. I don't plan on being in campgrounds with hookups often, so it looks like I should consider a separate charger and inverter. Not living in the van yet, so I'm sure habits may turn out to be different from what I currently anticipate. I'm trying to get as much as possible to work off of 12V DC. My laptop currently has a wall wart transformer on it to turn AC to DC (I think) I'm guessing there must be a way to charge it directly off 12V? I found a 12V DC tool battery charger for my cordless tool batteries. I'll have propane for cooking and hot water. A DC Compressor fridge. So It seems the Insta-Pot and possibly charging my laptop, phone, camera, devices, are the main uses for AC I'll have.

I'll be charging 2 170Ah LiFePO4 batteries, 340 Ah total. Already have solar panels/controller and DC to DC charger installed. Any recommended brands of chargers?

 

[XERTYX]

Can I ask what type of vehicle? 400 watts of solar didnt seem like much of a red flag... that's possible depending on how much real estate you have on the roof. But a propane hot water heater sounds more like you're outfitting a bus or a trailer with a tow vehicle. Instant pots are infinitely useful but need some juice. You did say lifepo4 batteries.

You've mentioned another vehicle previously. I assume you have an idea of how much power you will use as your own electric company? When you're plugged into the grid 20Kwh is cheap and plentiful and sounds minuscule. When you're aiming a piece of glass at the sun that's another story. Computers, instantpots, etc add up. Super quick.

In my experience I need to generate about 450wh daily to run a fridge 24/7, charge my phone daily, run a USB fan, every couple days charge a tablet, every couple days charge a chromebook, daily charge a USB lantern, and some TV usage.

I have lead acid batteries. 200w of solar. And some days it's about down to the wire to reach float charge before the sun goes down.

 

[GoingMobile]

Its a Ford Transit Cargo Van, 400watts of solar panels on the roof, [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif](2 x 200w) [/font]Victron SmartSolar charge controller MPPT 100 / 30,  340Ah of LiFePO4 battery storage.

 

[Axel]

If you can get rid of that Insta-Pot and replace it with a stovetop pressure cooker it sounds like you can go with a smaller system. Despite the gadgetry, an Insta-Pot doesn't really do anything that a stovetop pressure cooker can't do. Going DC with everything, or finding no-electricity alternatives will also make life a lot simpler.