Insurance

[DannyB1954]

I need help. I wish to purchase a step van with low miles, and then convert it into an rv. I am having a hard time finding an insurance carrier.
I am not a business person, so I can not register it as commercial, it has not been converted already, so I can not find anyone who will give me a quote as an RV.
I am not the first person to do this, but have been unable to find info on the procedure.

 

[gcal]

We have Allied, a subsidiary of Nationwide that handles its fulltime RV clients. No idea how you get your van classified as an RV, but class b's are just fancy vans, so there must be a way.

 

[masterplumber]

I think it depends upon the state you're trying to register it in. But the DMV is probably where you need to start. In most states to be an RV the vehicle usually has to have at least 3 off a list of 5 or 6 items permanently installed. Things like stoves, toilets, etc... They usually can't be portable to qualify which is where most Van Dwellers run into hiccups. Since most use portable cooking, toilets, etc...

As far as insuring a vehicle for commercial use - I don't think any insurance carrier requires that you own a business. When I used to work for someone else, but use my truck to haul my tools etc... back and forth to work, my insurance still considered that commercial use. The only real downside to insuring it that way, is it is usually more expensive, and depending upon the carrier and state it may be considerable more.

 

[LoupGarou]

It all starts with the VIN number. The insurance company will take the number and break it down letter and number to determine what their insuring. It's going to be hard to get coverage since it's not finished. The insurance company wants to make sure your covered against the loss or so they say. Liability coverage may be the best you can hope for. Contact your insurance company for any other vehicle you have. They should be able to help, it not, let them know you may have to move your policies to another company to get insurance on the step van.

Its gonna feel like a vicious circle. You have to take it somewhere to source your building supplies to finish it up. But you can't because you don't have insurance.

 

[MikeRuth]

Nods to insurance as a commercial vehicle, The rate may be higher but you do not have to be operating a business.

In California when I bought my E-150 that's how they registered it and still is.

 

[Belinda2]

In Maryland all the insurance carriers can be compared in one free book! Maybe your state does this:
Maryland Insurance Administration
Auto Insurance Guide To Rates
1-800-492-6116
www.insurance.marylnad.gov

 

[Belinda2]

Opps! Spelled it wrong:
www.insurance.maryland.gov

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I looked into this in New York, and ran into the same nightmare you did.

New York will register it as an RV IF I add certain things - cooking facilities, a sink with a water supply and holding tank, heat, electrical service, etc.

When I discussed it with my insurance company, they said they didn't care whether NY registered it as an RV or not, they'd have to see it when it was finished before they could decide whether they could insure it as an RV or not.  When I asked about just insuring it as commercial vehicle, I was told I would need to tell them what I was using it for.

I suppose I could have given them a song and a dance about what I was using it for, but then the risk is that if you get in an accident and they DISCOVER that you gave them a song and a dance, they have legal grounds for cutting you loose and the accident is then YOUR problem and not their problem.

In the end, I decided that I didn't want to sink all the time and money into a conversion like that, only to discover I couldn't get insurance for it. 

I'm going to do a conversion of a cargo trailer instead.  They HAVE to insure any trailer you are pulling.

Some people seem to be successful at doing these conversions, getting them insured, and getting them on the road.  I suspect it all depends on which state you are in.

Regards
John

 

[LoupGarou]

It's not fair that a RV maker can take a commercial truck frame and chassis, drop a $200,000 camper body on it and any insurance company will cover you for it.

 

[DannyB1954]

Thanks to all who took the time to help. I called a number of insurance carriers. One said that once it was converted, they would insure it, but they would not give me any idea of what the costs would be. I once had a 1949 Chris Craft 46' double cabin cruiser boat. The insurance carrier that I had decided to no longer cover old wooden boats. I had a heck of a time finding a carrier, and it was expensive because they realized that they had little competition. I am thinking that I could be re living that situation all over again with this conversion. I am now thinking that I would be better off to buy something that is recognized as an RV and then modify it any way I choose. 

Another option is that I have  a 2005 Dodge Dakota pickup that I removed the bed from and built a 7' x 7' steak bed onto. I could build a camping box to slide onto the back of it.  It would have to be made light, as my truck is only 1/2 ton. I was thinking about making modular walls that would bolt together on the truck. I could make these walls using metal house studs and weld them instead of using screws. I could fill the spaces in between them with rigid foam to keep them from flexing too much.

I once had a boat carpenter buddy who would take thin plywood door skin  and glue sheets of them together to make it as thick as he liked. He said the door skin was so thin that the manufacturer had to make certain that there were no voids in the layers. If he glued 2 sheets together it was thinner than a 1/4", yet very stiff and strong. He saved a lot of money not buying pre made marine grade plywood. If he wanted a panel longer than 10', he would just stagger the joints in his lamination.

Too many choices. :s

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Another option is that I have  a 2005 Dodge Dakota pickup that I removed the bed from and built a 7' x 7' steak bed onto. I could build a camping box to slide onto the back of it.  It would have to be made light, as my truck is only 1/2 ton. I was thinking about making modular walls that would bolt together on the truck. I could make these walls using metal house studs and weld them instead of using screws. I could fill the spaces in between them with rigid foam to keep them from flexing too much.

Spend some time over on http://www.tnttt.com/  A very active community, and I'm thinking the construction techniques those people use to build their Teardrop Trailers would be ideal for building a very strong yet very light camper for the back of your truck.

Regards
John

 

[gcal]

I suppose I could have given them a song and a dance about what I was using it for, but then the risk is that if you get in an accident and they DISCOVER that you gave them a song and a dance, they have legal grounds for cutting you loose and the accident is then YOUR problem and not their problem.


Regards
John

Yup. They'd  do it, too. That's  why we told them we were fulltimers I and paid the extra $400 without complaint. One accident with some bodily injury could ruin our lives.

 

[DannyB1954]

forgot to ad. In Nevada the department of Motor Vehicles said to convert a commercial to a recreational I would have to make the changes that I wanted and then have a certified mechanic sign off on the modifications.
Finding a business that would be interested in signing off on someone else's work may be easier said than done. Liability. In a sue crazy society it never ends.

 

[minimotos95]

You might want to try Progressive, from my experience they will insure just about anything for any use, even grey market imports without VINs and bicycles with motors slapped on. I'm a little surprised you can't just register it as a light truck like many people do with other medium duty trucks.

 

[DannyB1954]

You might want to try Progressive, from my experience they will insure just about anything for any use, even grey market imports without VINs and bicycles with motors slapped on.  I'm a little surprised you can't just register it as a light truck like many people do with other medium duty trucks.

I called them. Gave them the vin. They said no thank you and good luck.
Years back I had a motorcycle insured with them full coverage. After about 3 years it was stolen. They gave me a bad time for about 3 months. How do we know that you didn't steal your own bike? I couldn't believe they accused me of fraud. Then they wanted to give me half of what it would cost to replace. I told them to buy me a similar bike with similar miles, (just had 12,000 miles service done so I had proof of mileage). After 3 months of haggling they finally raised the amount that they gave me. Possibly I am now on their in house black list.

They had the best rates anywhere, but if you get grief when you need to file a claim, how much money did you really save?

 

[66788]

I'm having the same problem with my Dodge High Top and my Grumman-Olson. Progressive cancelled me when they found out the vans were converted into "conversion vans" by me and not by a "Professional Van Conversion company."

They flat told me "as of Aug 7, 2015 you will not be insured and we won't accept your vehicles."

Good Sam scoffed as well, even after being told that my Dodge was a window van with a bed, 12 volt ice box, and porti potty.

Seems the "self conversion" is the kiss of death to them.

Anyone out there know of a company that WILL insure our type of vehicles?

 

[Milk Hauler]

I'm having the same problem with my Dodge High Top and my Grumman-Olson. Progressive cancelled me when they found out the vans were converted into "conversion vans" by me and not by a "Professional Van Conversion company."

They flat told me "as of Aug 7, 2015 you will not be insured and we won't accept your vehicles."

Good Sam scoffed as well, even after being told that my Dodge was a window van with a bed, 12 volt ice box, and porti potty.

Seems the "self conversion" is the kiss of death to them.

Anyone out there know of a company that WILL insure our type of vehicles?

Sadly this is why I had to ditch my bus or stepvan idea too. I found a nice retired mci charter bus with a bathroom already built in. After 2 weeks of calling I gave up. Those mci busses are engineered to be fixed over and over. They are tanks!
I see bus conversions going down the road every day in the summer. Some look homebuilt. Someone must be insuring them. [emoji4]

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'm having the same problem with my Dodge High Top and my Grumman-Olson.   Progressive cancelled me when they found out the vans were converted into "conversion vans" by me and not by a "Professional Van Conversion company."  

They flat told me "as of Aug 7, 2015 you will not be insured and we won't accept your vehicles."

Good Sam scoffed as well, even after being told that my Dodge was a window van with a bed, 12 volt ice box, and porti potty.

Seems the "self conversion" is the kiss of death to them.

Anyone out there know of a company that WILL insure our type of vehicles?

I hesitate to suggest this because it isn't cheap, but I believe all states have an assigned risk program.  If all else fails, you might check into that.  If you do, please let the rest of us know what you find out.

Regards
John

 

[DannyB1954]

I also considered a old ambulance conversion. Allstate said they would insure it when I gave them the vin number.
You might try them.

 

[masterplumber]

If you only need liability you can always go to "broad form" it basically covers the driver, and not the vehicle. My son has had it for a few years, because he's always buying and selling older vehicles, and sometimes has 5 or 6 of them with various plans for them. Insuring all of them while only driving one at a time was becoming cost prohibitive, especially as a young male with a few tickets. I think he pays less than $500 per year now. Of course if he does get into an accident that is his fault he gets nothing for the vehicle. But he is covered for liability and meets all of the minimum insurance requirements of Colorado. His is through a company called Dairyland Auto. I just looked at his bill and it also has Viking Insurance Company of Wisconsin on it as the return address. I hope that helps in your search.