Insurance Hades

[Spirituallifetime]

I remember a year or so there was another couple from Ontario that had the same problem getting insurance for their box truck when they told the insurance company it was being converted to an rv! You can always shop around for insurance before you buy any vehicle and get prices. I've done this before and you would be surprised how much the price can change from one car to another!

 

[ccbreder]

""I was lucky that the 3/4 ton cargo is acceptable for auto insurance as compared to commercial coverage but only with select companies. If their cut-off point is 5,000 lbs then even the 3/4 that I have wouldn't make the cut.""

NJ. My Dodge Tradesman 300, a 1 ton van, was insured as a passenger vehicle, titled at 5000 pounds. The same insurance costs as my Impala.

 

[Almost There]

NJ. My Dodge Tradesman 300, a 1 ton van, was insured as a passenger vehicle, titled at 5000 pounds. The same insurance costs as my Impala.

My point exactly - it all depends on the jurisdiction as to what a vehicle can be titled as and it all depends on the insurance company as to what THEY decide is commercial or not.


That said, not all 1 ton vans are created equal as shown by your Dodge 300 at 5,000 lbs. My GMC 2500 which is 3/4 ton is titled at 2349 kg (5,178 lbs).

 

[gramakittycat]

Look into a "Renters policy" Mine covers the contents of my van after a $500 deductible.   

My rentors insurance policy covers items in my minivan( or any other vehicle I may have also) and covers my off site storage unit.Oh and my apt contents.

 

[Almost There]

My rentors insurance policy covers items in my minivan( or any other vehicle I may have also) and covers my off site storage unit.Oh and my apt contents.

I already have a tenants policy but here the minimum deductible the insurance companies will offer you is $1,000.

And the minimum amount of contents that you can get them to underwrite is $30,000. Doesn't matter that you only have 10G worth of stuff, take it or leave it!!

Policy premium for the year - $316.00. And that's after getting multiple policy discounts, etc. etc.

I already ran into the problem with contents on a vehicle being covered under the tenants policy. Some idiot(s) broke into my Safari van while it was parked at my mothers' apartment overnight. Window replacement was less than the deductible on the comp coverage - $250.00 out of pocket. Stolen from the vehicle - $1,100 worth of stuff. With a $1,000 deductible on the contents and an $1,100 claim I was advised strongly not to put in the claim because my rates would go up on the tenants policy.

Total out of pocket - $1,350.00.

I wonder why I pay for insurance some days!!

 

[Canine]

In Montana I've never heard of these nightmare stories of insurance companies arbitrarily making up GVWR limits as "commercial vehicles". Makes no sense. If I own a 30,000 GVWR truck and use it to haul hay for my horses, or to drive back and forth to the grocery store, it is considered a personal vehicle. If I own an 80,000 GVWR Freightliner tractor to tow my fifth wheel for camping, it is considered a personal vehicle. If I own a 4000 GVWR vehicle and use it to make money, such as delivering pizzas, then it is a commercial vehicle and needs the appropriate insurance.

Weight should not be a sole indicator if a vehicle is being used to make money so that the commercial insurance is required.

Maybe slide in campers or cargo trailers would be a better alternative to avoid the arbitrary limitations of insurance companies.

 

[Canine]

Oh boy, don't even get me started on insurance companies and cargo vans.

When I switched from a window van to a cargo van, about 10 days later they sent me a notice that I needed to take it into them for an inspection.  As soon as they saw it was a cargo van my insurance went from $60/mo to $270/mo and they called it a commercial vehicle period.  They complained about the solar panels, and said they could not insure me with them, but I told them they were there when I bought it, but I was going to remove them, so the agent didn't report them.

Not quite a year later, I got a notice that my insurance carrier had changed, and I needed to go in for another inspection.  This time they not only complained about the solar panels, they also demanded to look inside, which they did not do on the previous inspection.  Upon seeing it was a camper van, they immediately cancelled my coverage all together.  The interior had come out of a wrecked factory camper van, so it looked like a factory job too, it didn't matter.  The title said cargo van, and that wasn't what it was being used for.  Game Over.

That was the last straw before I got rid of that miserable PITA.  Went back to window vans and $60/mo insurance. They know they're camper vans and all they ask is whether I want it insured as a passenger van or an RV.  I choose passenger van because that is what it's registered as which is much cheaper.  Since my interior is totally portable and removable I have my choice, and the insurance companies could care less.  I guess maybe the built in stuff has to be insured as an RV, and since I could truthfully say no propane, or holding tanks, I was good to go.

I only carry the required liability insurance, not full coverage, and my belongings aren't covered.  My real insurance policy is having an emergency fund large enough to replace everything, van and all contents included.  That way I have guaranteed full coverage with no insurance company hassles.

Yep, been there done that, that's why I have a conversion van. Nobody questions what it is. One poster talked like he didn't believe the OP, then a few others mentioned their hassles. My insurance company wouldn't cover a cargo van or a 15 passenger window van. When I casually asked about coverage, they casually asked why I was asking... They are hyper sensitive. I realize that where you are plated has a lot to do with it. If you are seriously thinking about vandwelling then move to a locality that is not anti vandweller. I have no idea about Canada but here in the U.S. You could be in many states and not have that issue. SD, Texas, Florida come to mind.

Did I start off wanting a conversion van? No. I wanted a cargo van so I could build my own ideas and I wanted a 1 ton so I could pull a travel trailer if I felt like it. After researching, I found out that I couldn't license it as personal etc... So it's the harmless and not very capable conversion van for me. Compromises, that's life.

The OP had a legitimate issue, and without a lot of checking or just keeping your yap shut, you get into trouble. Nobody here knows my name, the brand van, or where I live except that it's in Phoenix. I don't tell people I meet I live in the van. It doesn't look inside like I live in it. I sacrifice comfort and possessions for anonymity.

We are living a lifestyle that is misunderstood at best and illegal at the worst.

 

[Almost There]

Well, I managed to get insurance here! I'm not sure what the insurance agent told the insurance company and they're not asking for an inspection!! I have it all documented that I told him the absolute truth about what I was doing so I've played CYA with him.

Unfortunately at the moment I am tied to this province. Eventually I'll move to BC where I understand the rules are a little different. Before I ask my own insurance agent out there, I'll ask someone who has no stake in the matter!

For right now I'm on a don't ask, don't tell routine with the insurance company. It's titled as passenger vehicle, I have insurance on it as a passenger vehicle. I'm keeping my mouth shut about the wood and vinyl that's going inside. The fridge and the composting toilet are all removable as will be all the stuff like inverters, etc. etc.

From various conversations with different insurance agents and brokers, Ontario insurance companies will have hissy fits if you even upgrade your wheel rims let alone build a camper interior in a van...how dare we!!..

Of course I can never get full-timer RV insurance on it but then to keep the bank, insurance companies and the various governmental departments happy, you have to have a home base anyways, so technically, one can never be a full-timer. That I'll never sleep at my 'home' is none of their business.

If anyone really wants to have the proper insurance coverage for a full-timer, it looks like there is no choice in the matter but to buy a commercially built RV of one class or another. Anything else is against the rules of one thing or another...sigh!

 

[Canine]

Glad it worked out. I hear BC is very nice, he lower mainland weather is better and they don't salt their roads!

Good luck there.

 

[Canine]

This is older no (2011) from another rv forum but applicable:


Posted: 09/02/10 01:28pm Link | Print | Notify Moderator
The standards may vary from state to state and insurer to insurer. Here is what I was able to find via Google for Montana:

"Motor Home" as used in MCA Title 61, Chapter 1 means a motor vehicle designed to provide temporary living quarters, built as an integral part of or permanently attached to a self-propelled motor vehicle chassis or van, containing permanently installed independent life support systems that meet the ANSIA/A119.2 standard and providing at least four of the following type facilities (check all that are in this motor home):

Cooking, refrigerator or icebox
Potable water supply system, including a faucet and sink
Self-contained toilet
Heating or air conditioning, or both
Separate 110-volt or 125-volt electrical power supply or a liquefied petroleum gas supply, or both

Note that it requires only four facilities, but not all and either a AC power supply or LPG, but not both.


Here is what Progressive Insurance requires:

ALL of the following must be permanently installed facilities:

* Cooking
* Refrigeration
* Bathroom facilities (built-in and plumbed)
* Self-contained heating and/or air conditioning
* Drinkable water supply system
* 110 to 125 volt electrical power system (including solar powered systems)

Again note that LPG is not required.

We had no trouble getting our unit registered in Arkansas and insured by Shelter despite having neither LPG or a generator.

Robert
2006 Sportsmobile Sprinter

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

Almost there,

We live in BC and own a Class A RV and can't get *anyone* to insure us for contents. This is of some concern to us, as we're carrying all our musical equipment, camera equipment, and five (needed) computers.

I wonder why the difference between Ontario and BC. :huh:

As it stands, we can't both leave our rig, and when we do (to perform concerts, book signings, or we have a speaking engagement) we have to pay someone to babysit it for us.

Not great!


Jesse.

 

[gcal]

From the sound of this, insurance costs alone could make it more economical to buy an old class C and fix it up than# trying to get a converted van insured, or having coverage denied if you have an accident and they find out you were using it in ways you did not tell them about. Not very stealthy, but it beats financial disaster and maybe jail.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Almost there,

We live in BC and own a Class A RV and can't get *anyone* to insure us for contents.  This is of some concern to us, as we're carrying all our musical equipment, camera equipment, and five (needed) computers.

I wonder why the difference between Ontario and BC.  :huh:

As it stands, we can't both leave our rig, and when we do (to perform concerts, book signings, or we have a speaking engagement) we have to pay someone to babysit it for us.

Not great!


Jesse.

Here in the states, there are various organizations - Good Sam, Escapees, FMCA, and so on that seem to work with several selected insurance companies to tailor insurance policies to their members special needs.

Given all the Canadian snowbirds, is there no similar organization in Canada?

Regards
John

 

[Almost There]

From the sound of this, insurance  costs alone could make it more economical to buy an old class C and fix it up than# trying to get a converted van insured, or having coverage denied if you have an accident  and they find out you were using it in ways you did  not tell them about. Not very stealthy, but it beats financial disaster and maybe jail.

I'm not worried about coverage denied, worst case scenario is that you have to go into the mandatory insurance association group and pay accordingly. There's no risk of financial disaster - worst case is a big hit on the savings account, jail isn't on the table!
As to the viability of buying a Class C, not a chance. The cost of Class Cs' is really, really high here because it takes into consideration all the interior which is wasted money IMO because I'd be ripping it most of it out anyways.
RV insurance, to the best of my knowledge, in Ontario still doesn't cover things like your clothes, stereo, computer etc. so buying a Class C won't solve that problem. They are expected to be covered under your homeowner/tenant policy.
In my case, all the woodwork that I'm putting in won't be covered. My contents like my fridge/cooler, C-Head toilet and alcohol stove, clothing, all the camera/laptop/generator equipment will have to be covered under a separate tenant policy which I wouldn't normally bother to carry when all I'm doing is using a friends' place for a legal address. If I ever stay there it will be in the driveway - her kids would drive me nuts in a single night...
The problem comes with a loss. If it's an all perils event that wipes things out then I've got a $500 deductible on that and then another $1,000. deductible on the tenants policy. That and the premiums - I'm having to pay for a policy I don't even need albeit only $25 a month but still, just to cover my contents or else I have to self insure.
I've since found out that there is one insurance company that might/will take it once it's complete but they wouldn't touch it while I was converting it...sigh! My other choice is to go to a company that insures, with written appraisal, for appraised value. They're used by all the custom antique guys - not sure of the cost on that one...we'll see when the time comes.

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

We can't get insurance, John, because our equipment is deemed 'For professional use' - even though the concerts we do are BENEFIT concerts. I couldn't care less about books and such since we don't carry them with us, but our cameras and particularly instruments are worth a small fortune. About 23 years ago, I lost my favorite guitar in Aspen. It was 'worth' $30,000 at the time, but it was priceless to me.

Sigh....


Jesse.

 

[Almost There]

We can't get insurance, John, because our equipment is deemed 'For professional use' - even though the concerts we do are BENEFIT concerts.  I couldn't care less about books and such since we don't carry them with us, but our cameras and particularly instruments are worth a small fortune.  About 23 years ago, I lost my favorite guitar in Aspen.  It was 'worth' $30,000 at the time, but it was priceless to me.

Sigh....


Jesse.

Have you looked outside the auto insurance industry for regular business insurance. I'm not talking business interruption coverage, I'm thinking along the same lines as a regular business covers valuable papers and the contents of their office whether it's a photocopier, filing cabinets or in your case musical instruments.

Have you thought to ask any of the bands playing commercially what they do to cover their instruments.

There are insurance companies that will cover you for just about anything, artists have been known to insure their hands. It's all about price though.

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

Have you looked outside the auto insurance industry for regular business insurance. I'm not talking business interruption coverage, I'm thinking along the same lines as a regular business covers valuable papers and the contents of their office whether it's a photocopier, filing cabinets or in your case musical instruments.

Have you thought to ask any of the bands playing commercially what they do to cover their instruments.

There are insurance companies that will cover you for just about anything, artists have been known to insure their hands. It's all about price though.

Mm-hmm, but we're in that shady place between being worthy of note but not quite famous enough to insure our appendages, LOL. Our ministry is also *not* a charity, as Brian and I don't believe that the government has any place in a Christian ministry, so we don't seem to fit into anyone's little boxes properly. Such is the price one pays when one chooses a 'different' path. (That's one of the nicer words people use to describe our beliefs on this subject, as most of the people we deal with have 5013c status.)

It's complicated to be sure, but we're not out of business yet.

An insurance company cost us our house by cancelling our policy (too many forest fires in our area), and then the bank called in our mortgage (which we couldn't pay at the time) and subsequently sold our house for thirty cents on the dollar.

An insurance company wouldn't pay out when I was in a car accident that landed me in a wheelchair 12.5 years ago, and I was too sick to challenge them in time.

So you see, I'm not terribly fond of insurance companies.

Shalom,

Jesse.

 

[Almost There]

So you see, I'm not terribly fond of insurance companies.

Shalom,

Jesse.

Neither am I at the best of times, but since I have to carry insurance I like it to be of benefit to me! Particularly when I'm paying the premiums!!

And of course, you also get to deal with ICBC, which I hear can be another horror story altogether.

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

Neither am I at the best of times, but since I have to carry insurance I like it to be of benefit to me! Particularly when I'm paying the premiums!!

And of course, you also get to deal with ICBC, which I hear can be another horror story altogether.

Yeup, that's the one - the wheelchair guys.

Jess.

 

[offroad]

Bumping this discussion as I read about a couple who had someone break into their car and steal everything.