Hybrid Car Technology vs. Solar Energy Technology

[kllcbosmetris]

I did end up buying the Chevy Volt battery I mentioned in the earlier post. There are all kinds of salvaged Volt parts going pretty cheap, including the Aircon compressor. The problem I see with that is that it is driven from an inverter and 3 phase, I suppose that inverter is for probably for sale also but I would have to believe that it just keeps getting more complicated. It really wouldn't be super stealthy either. I drive a Volt and it's rather noisy when the car is sitting still and the compressor is running.

It is possible to use EV charging stations with that adapter like in that other post. John is probably right though and if people start building trailers with salvaged EV packs and foraging for electricity at the free stations they wont be free for long, there are some chargers that I pay a fee to use and it's still rather cheap considering that 10KWH(the volt's useable capacity) is only a couple dollars in electricity. So even if the free stations turned into pay stations your idea still might be worthwhile. Two grocery stores in my hometown (Normal Illinois is trying to be EV town) have free chargers out front, I'm sure their power rate is even lower than residential rates so I imagine they are happy to give away 50 cents in electricity if you were to replenish your food stocks there.

Something I'm going to look into for heating and cooling if I feel safe with the using the 16KWH pack is to adapt a ductless mini split to my RV. 1 option is a 48 volt DC model mini split which just happens to be the voltage of 6 of the Volt pack modules. The other would be to run a 120 volt mini split from an inverter. Neither of those would be stealthy though.

I'm interested in your thoughts though as my plan is very similar. Use a big battery that doesn't require daily top ups and require less chasing of the sun and less generator runtime. As an EV driver I come to rely on those charging stations so I probably won't be using them as I'd also hate to be responsible for some kind of failure that caused expensive damage to the charging station. I see myself checking into a campground every so often for a night to charge up the bank, empty the holding tank and fill the water tank.

Where did you get the Volt battery, eBay? $1200 is great price for that level of power.

I watched a few videos on DIY electric vehicles, including a DIY Tesla (one guy built, for $6400, via 2-3 salvage cars), and got the idea that maybe you can mount the Tesla battery pack underneath the van (to keep things a bit safer), just like they do with Tesla. So far I saw one person do it with Tesla and another one do it with VW Samba Van. I'm also going to research plug-in hybrids. There is currently only one caravan with that technology ('17 Chrysler), which ironically was at one of the EV charging stations. If I can integrate this EV battery/technology into my conversion, it would be the perfect stealth as nobody would go look into an EV van that is charging (so I wouldn't mind paying for the EV charge parking lots for that reason alone). I might have to venture out to DIY EV forums to learn more though.

 

[scottorious]

Including the air conditioning compressor. A hybrid mini-van would make an interesting stealth camper like you are suggesting. With the Tesla Model S and Chevy volts there is still a 12 volt battery in the trunk that runs the car's 12 volt electronics, it's fed by a DC to DC converter which is speculated at providing 2000 watts of power. There were kits for a while (aftermarket of course) that set volt owners up with a 2000 watt inverter that would run off the lead acid that was fed by the lithium battery. Not much fear about running that too low as the car will autostart to make sure you don't deplete the lithium battery. I mention that as maybe the van would have that same option and you'd have your inverter to cover everything you can't power with a cigarette plug. I haven't seen many Nissan Leafs up close but I wonder what the situation would be like to convert one of those into a dwelling. They have a pretty sizeable battery that I would think should last a decent amount of time in the situation you are suggesting.

 

[John61CT]

My initial thought was to have an Inergy Kodiak, which is portable (re: you can take it with you to an office and fully charge it in a few hours with a fast charger), connected to a stationary AGM system.

No portable pack can hold the quantity of energy you're talking about.

Just the necessary **charger by itself** would be a challenge for most people to carry up a flight of stairs.

Third option appeared as I was trying to understand how Prius campers do what they do in their hybrid vehicles. Seemed pretty convenient to run A/C or heat with their car battery (w/o running the engine). Very stealth and convenient. Then I said "Why can't we just build that in a conversion or just use Prius/Volt/EV batteries?" and here we are.

And there's what I'm so confused about. AFAIK the only way to get that **Prius functionality** when it comes to **generating power** is to own a Prius. The whole car, not bits and pieces of it.

And the only way to enjoy its aircon and heating functionality is to put your body inside that car. I suppose you could try building a big plastic tunnel between your Prius and a van, or live in a space big enough to park the Prius inside, but I assume you see that's not practical for your context.

Just buying a random pack of EV batteries doesn't buy you anything wrt either the generating side nor the load consumption side, it's just a big pack of batteries at a size and voltage that makes it very awkward and expensive to use as a House bank.

Which brings us back to

2000w inverter generators, which I've researched, can be a good back up option for the times I go out boondocking in nature but not feasible for me as I plan to be in urban areas (re: can't run a generator even in a covered parking lot, while keeping stealth)

Just because you want something doesn't make it possible.

As I said, forget stealth with aircon and electric heating. Those inverter gennies are far quieter than any aircon unit!

Research continues.

If you really need stealth, you need to give up on aircon - there is absolutely no way to get both at the same time.

And fanless propane is the only heat source quiet enough for stealth.

I would focus your efforts on those hard choices.

And on putting an energy budget together, figuring out how many AH per day you will be using **per hour** , average will change with the season, and day vs night.

And where that energy will come from.

When I asked you about that, your primary power sources, the batteries and inverters etc are irrelevant.

The only practical choices are 1. portable generator and/or

2. parking at a paid location and charging (with lead) overnight

or maybe less time with "lithium" whatever dangerous chemistry your pack is, but where and how and how long? We can set that aside for now.

I don't think solar is nearly enough for your proposed high consumption, even if you had a hundred square feet of panels, since you are in a city not out in the middle of the desert.

So never mind that battery pack for now, has nothing to do with those more fundamental challenges.

You must decide which is more important for you, stealth on the one hand, or the crazy high consumption of electric heat and aircon.

Or maybe buy a Prius and sleep in that. Won't be stealthy either, but you're less likely to get hassled than in a big rig.

 

[John61CT]

There is currently only one caravan with that technology ('17 Chrysler), which ironically was at one of the EV charging stations.

Living **in** that van might be a fantastic option. But it's still very small inside, the buildout will need to be super light, and don't even think about towing anything heavier than a bike trailer.

Note you will need to move away from the charging station once you've finished recharging, unless you're in a spot no one uses (for now).

And PS "caravan" means a trailer in commonwealth English.

If I can integrate this EV battery/technology into my conversion

Again, what exactly does this phrase mean to you?

Living in an EV van will not require any "conversion" wrt electrical systems.

Adding a bed, facilities for cooking and a fridge, maybe a portapotty, OK that's part of a conversion.

But wrt your electrical systems I think it's important for you to define what you think you need to actually do, what you want to end up with, more specifically.

 

[scottorious]

I don't know the OP's location but is air conditioning a luxury or a necessity in that location? Could three seasons of stealth create the savings you desire and spend the hottest days/weeks/months at a paid campsite where you can let your Air conditioner run wild? Checking the weather for the and getting a campsite only when the temps get unbearable seems like it would be an easy solution. It seems like easy solution isn't what your'e seeking though. The parts are certainly available for experimenting with and if you pulled it off I would be super impressed. I'm usually of the mindset of "built not bought". Truly you might be better off hacking an old dehumidifier or something and building your A/C in that manner. Since the hybrid compressors will require a complicated 3 phase inverter and programming to run. Sure, your own air source heat pump would still require an inverter but that's all kind of standard stuff.

Here is a link to a chevy volt charger which auto senses either 120 or 240 and has the CAN controller included. The GM charger limits the amperage to 11 amps as part of their battery protection so from empty it still takes my car 4ish hours to charge on a 240 charger. This charger would only work if you kept the volt pack at it's full voltage of over 300 volts which honestly makes very little sense unless you plan to convert your vehicle to an EV. Buying GM parts is cool though because if your part ever fails you can roll into just about any junkyard and have a used part sent to you or head to a dealership(or stealership, your call) and order a new part. If you did plan on building an EV, the Volt batteries are pretty prevalent now and also pretty affordable. They also have a pretty simple liquid cooling feature already built in which I would try to use if I was building an EV pack.
http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=Learcharger