Homelessness [split from Leadville and Salida Ranger Districts]

[bullfrog !]

Sorry, but homelessness is a national problem that affects everyone in this country whether they realize it or not. It is frustrating when those that are forced to realize it chose to just try to make it somebody else’s problem instead of making everyone aware and working to help solve the problem. “United we stand, divided we fall!” seems to have been forgotten or never taught to many in this country. Everyone in this country that has been blessed with so much wealth deserves a better living condition especially those that have problems because they served the country. It becomes apparent when you look at the world around us, it also becomes apparent what happens when people don’t respect each other and work together for the good of all and that includes everybody whether poor, unhealthy, drug addicted or a homeless vagrant.

 

[Morgana]

There are so many different pieces to this problem that there can't possibly be a one-size-fits-all solution. People working three minimum-wage jobs and living in their car. People who are not fit to take care of themselves and may never be. People who crawled into a bottle and couldn't or wouldn't crawl out (yet). Mothers who had to get their kids out of a violent home (and God bless them for putting their children first). Gay kids whose parents threw them out. Veterans who did what WE asked them to and then got hung out to dry. People who got sick in a country cursed with a predatory medical billing system. And, sure, assorted slobs and asshats (including, apparently, quite a few slobs and asshats impersonating veterans). "I live near a homeless encampment" isn't much of a claim to expertise, and blaming it all on one political party isn't much of a solution.

Given how polarized we are, I don't see how we'll ever agree on a solution that's complex and flexible enough to deal with this kaleidoscope of problems. I sure hope we come to our senses somehow. With just a few bits of bad luck, the same thing could happen to almost any of us.

 

[bullfrog !]

if I improved my computer skills I would link some older YouTube videos of homeless solutions in tiny home communities in Kansas and Austin Texas that have been around a while. The one in Texas can be a lifetime home or temporary and both work on improving peoples living conditions as well as the people themselves. Surprisingly many there return to their pursuit of the “American Dream” although a modified less costly version.

 

[WanderingRose]

Tho you can only re-home someone who wants to be re-homed.

More and affordable housing is only one piece of this.

 

[rvwandering]

Please avoid political comments and derogatory comments about homeless people. These types of posts will be deleted.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

..... Given how polarized we are, I don't see how we'll ever agree on a solution that's complex and flexible enough to deal with this kaleidoscope of problems .....

Not only polarized but toxic. The blind man holding the tail insists that an elephant is like a rope and anyone who says different is lying with evil intent. The blind man holding a leg insists an elephant is like a tree trunk and anyone who disagrees is elephobic and must be silenced.

There is simply no room for compromise and working together towards a solution.

 

[bullfrog !]

Being rehoused and becoming part of a community are two different things. A group started feeding the homeless in Austin Texas and through regular contact became friends. It became more than people helping people, it became friends helping friends. It grew into a community. There are those that are mentally incapable of making decisions and those addicted to drugs that need to be evaluated and have an interdiction imposed by the legal system for their own safety or because of criminal activity. It might be in a state hospital or halfway house, unfortunately it seems most end up dead or in jail instead of being identified by health officials and treated. From what I have seen they make up somewhere between 25% to 50% of the homeless depending on where the survey is conducted. Even if half the people living on the streets could be helped it would be well worth doing in my opinion. Sick people need to be treated, criminals need to go to jail and homeless need to at least have minimum basic housing needs met. Teaching in Eastern Kentucky and Northern Arkansas years ago, checking on students I don’t know how many times I have heard EMTs tell doctors “You have got to admit them or they will never get better. They were living in squalor, with no utilities.” Seeing kids that have deformities because broken bones were not properly set let alone know what a toothbrush looks like because every penny goes trying to stay someplace warm and dry. I sure hoped things would get better but it appears to have gotten worse especially for those in urban areas.

 

[WanderingRose]

It’s the committing a person against their will that is so difficult, laws preventing and protecting, and for very good reason.

I read somewhere recently that being in and out of jail is “doing life on the installment plan”.

How perfectly apt.

I think we can each do what we can, in our own little corner, when we have the opportunity, with whomever we come across, and maybe lighten one persons load a small bit.

We are not going to solve this here, and we’re not going to agree on a solution.

Because it is far too complex, and if it were simple a solution would long since have been done.

 

[bullfrog !]

People’s lives are being changed by many private organizations with people volunteering to help but so much more needs to be done to expand what they have started by using our tax money to solve the larger problems.

 

[rruff]

Sorry, but homelessness is a national problem that affects everyone in this country whether they realize it or not.

Good first step... national funding... because homeless can and do move, making it impossible for individual towns and cities to deal with this effectively using their own $$$.

There are so many different pieces to this problem that there can't possibly be a one-size-fits-all solution.

There are definitely a lot of screwy things going on that contribute to the "homeless problem". Based on the stats, there are actually fewer people in that category than there were before the pandemic... but we sure get the impression there are more people in "camps"... and there very well could be. Besides turning functional addicts into dysfunctional ones, it probably also screwed up a lot of people's spending, budgeting, and working habits. When they quit being paid more to stay home than they made working, and stimulus checks ran out, now they are on the verge of disaster... even though real wages are better at the low end. Sure, lower wage workers have been getting the shaft for decades... but recently living standards for most workers at the low end have actually improved; first with pandemic benefits and now higher wages. So recent developments cannot be blamed on that.

People working three minimum-wage jobs and living in their car.

Stopped by the local Sonic yesterday evening and they were closed due to lack of staff. $15/hr to start and they can't hire anybody. All the fast food are advertising for help. Awesome climate, beautiful place, tourists love it, COL below the national average. Before the pandemic these places were paying <$10 an hour and didn't have staffing issues. Where did everybody go?

We are not going to solve this here, and we’re not going to agree on a solution. Because it is far too complex, and if it were simple a solution would long since have been done.

What is "it" precisely? And what would a solution look like?

I think it is very incorrect to assume that it would be solved if it wasn't too complex. If it's an issue that many developed countries don't have, then dysfunction in our system is the culprit. These are solvable in theory and it's isn't even that hard. The problem is that existing power doesn't care or actually prefers it this way.

 

[WanderingRose]

“It” being homelessness, of course, the topic of this thread.

I believe homelessness in this country is a very complex problem, and that if it were a simple problem, such as just the lack of affordable housing, if there was the will, it could probably be solved.

As it is, there are multiple, layered issues.

IMHO

 

[rruff]

“It” being homelessness, of course, the topic of this thread.

I believe homelessness in this country is a very complex problem, and that if it were a simple problem, such as just the lack of affordable housing, if there was the will, it could probably be solved.

Yes, but homelessness is down long term, so isn't it already being solved?

Housing prices keep rising relative to wages for a simple reason. The bulk of our national income gains (real GDP) has gone to the wealthy (the "investor class") for the last 45 years. Prior to that wages increased just as fast, which is necessary for sustainability. The wealthy lack productive things to invest in though, because the low and middle classes (the consumers) can only acquire so much debt to make up for their lack of income. So what do the wealthy do with their excess income? They inflate assets. Mostly RE and stocks, but lots of other things too.

The problem and solution are very simple. Every developed country in the world boosts wages and has extensive public benefits to reduce disparity, including the US! It's just a matter of "how much". The people who benefit from the status quo don't want it to change though. And they've managed to manipulate and divide and confuse the public so we are divided 50/50 over the most ridiculous nonsense, and are powerless to change anything.

 

[egilbe]

Yes, but homelessness is down long term, so isn't it already being solved?

Housing prices keep rising relative to wages for a simple reason. The bulk of our national income gains (real GDP) has gone to the wealthy (the "investor class") for the last 45 years. Prior to that wages increased just as fast, which is necessary for sustainability. The wealthy lack productive things to invest in though, because the low and middle classes (the consumers) can only acquire so much debt to make up for their lack of income. So what do the wealthy do with their excess income? They inflate assets. Mostly RE and stocks, but lots of other things too.

The problem and solution are very simple. Every developed country in the world boosts wages and has extensive public benefits to reduce disparity, including the US! It's just a matter of "how much". The people who benefit from the status quo don't want it to change though. And they've managed to manipulate and divide and confuse the public so we are divided 50/50 over the most ridiculous nonsense, and are powerless to change anything.

Every society throughout history, the lower classes ended up destroying the upper classes. It's going to happen in the US, eventually. We will have another civil war, or October Revolution, or a workers revolt. It's just a matter of time. Maybe the trigger will be an economic collapse, or a real pandemic a la Black plague, but something will happen that will launch an all-out collapse of the current society. It's not sustainable, the few living off the sweat and work of the many. #occupywallstreet, the January 6th event, quiet quitting, forced vaccinations, are all symptoms of a society in it's death throes.

 

[WanderingRose]

And down the rabbit hole we go.

 

[DLTooley]

Every society throughout history, the lower classes ended up destroying the upper classes. It's going to happen in the US, eventually. We will have another civil war, or October Revolution, or a workers revolt. It's just a matter of time. Maybe the trigger will be an economic collapse, or a real pandemic a la Black plague, but something will happen that will launch an all-out collapse of the current society. It's not sustainable, the few living off the sweat and work of the many. #occupywallstreet, the January 6th event, quiet quitting, forced vaccinations, are all symptoms of a society in it's death throes.

That doesn’t mean ‘they’ won’t make an attempt with Social Media. It wouldn’t work with older folks, who knows what success they are already having with younger folks.

 

[rruff]

Every society throughout history, the lower classes ended up destroying the upper classes.

Nope, won't happen this time. Maybe civil war; let us kill each other. Most people in the US are much more fond of the rich than they are of the poor... even the poor people!

 

[user 22017]

Trapped in paradise: how we got the homeless situation (part 1)​

 

[rruff]

Good video!

Functional people move to nice places, that are also accommodating... to live on the street, or in their vehicle. Why not? It's an easy life. Beats having a job. And if you have a job it's a lot easier to make ends meet when you are paying no rent... in a place with high wages and high COL.

This aspect only happens because it's allowed.

 

[jacqueg]

Good video!

Functional people move to nice places, that are also accommodating... to live on the street, or in their vehicle. Why not? It's an easy life. Beats having a job. And if you have a job it's a lot easier to make ends meet when you are paying no rent... in a place with high wages and high COL.

This aspect only happens because it's allowed.

Hmmm...smh here. Isn't that what's supposed to happen in a free market? Rent's too high, so people make the rational decisiuon to not pay it?

 

[bullfrog !]

It is also part of being free to live and travel as one pleases in this country. There are legal limits but as long as they are abided by and if too restrictive options or accommodations are provided it is one of the great things about living in this country in my opinion. Many countries I believe you must have papers or permits to travel in.