Here we go again, Spark plugs changed, engine wont start.

[DreadHeadDrifter]

I am so frustrated at the moment.

I pulled everything out to get to my engine, swapped the spark plugs and the engine wouldnt start, called auto zone, they gave me the wrong plugs, gap was too big.

I go back and get the right plugs, put them in today. Engine wont start still.. It tries to start but just wont turn over.

I have no idea what this could be, all plugs are on tight, correct gaps, and the wiring is correct as well. I am so frustrated at this point my only options are to

a) find out what is wrong and try and fix it myself

b) pay to for a tow to a mechanic

Does anybody have advice on this? I have been trying for a week now to get this thing running, drained the battery trying to get it to start, had to recharge the battery. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I go back and get the right plugs, put them in today. Engine wont start still.. It tries to start but just wont turn over.

I don't mean to nitpick - I know that's the LAST thing you need right now - but your phrase "tries to start but just won't turn over" is confusing, at least to me.  I think we need to clarify before anybody can offer you helpful advice.

"Turn over" means the starter motor is causing the internal parts - crankshaft, pistons, etc. to move.

If the engine is turning over, but not starting, that could be either an ignition or fuel problem.

If the engine isn't turning over, then it's not even TRYING to start.  That could be starter, solenoid, ignition switch, neutral safety switch, or a loose or broken wire between any of those components.  Or a dead battery.

Do you have a meter that would let you tell us what your battery voltage is?  If not, are the headlights bright when you turn them on?  Have you tried to jump start it with jumper cables and another vehicle?

Regards
John

 

[B and C]

I am going to assume that it was running before you replaced the plugs?  
Are the plugs the only thing replaced?
Did you have to remove anything besides the wires from the plugs (vacuum line or other wire)?  A broken vacuum line would make for your symptoms.


Most tune ups these days are plugs, wires, cap and rotor done somewhere around a 100k.
Exactly what vehicle/engine is this?  I've got CRS and can't remember what everybody is in.
Carb - fuel injection?

Have you tried sea foam sprayed down the throat of the carb (better than either)?  It sounds like their might be spark if it tries to hit every now and then.

Just trying to help and there is not a lot of info.
Brian

 

[Van-Tramp]

You first have to answer two questions

1) Is the engine getting spark?
Do not assume, check it by pulling a wire off the plug and verify that the coil is actually delivering spark to the plugs. I do this by inserting a screwdriver into the plug end of the wire, setting the screw driver down so the shaft is close enough to some grounded metal (inner fender works great) and turn the key so the engine tries to start. You should see the spark between the metal shaft and the metal (it has to be pretty close) and even hear it tick-tick-tick. If not, then you have a coil or wire problem

2) Is the engine getting gas?
Easy enough to test, just pull the hose off the easiest location, insert it into a pale/bucket, and crank the motor. If gas squirts out, you can assume the engine is getting some, assuming your Fuel Injection has power... which was a problem with one of mine some time back. That took me 2 months to figure out the Fuel Injection power wire was broken and with no power the injectors can not do their thing.

Lastly, I recommend STOP GOING TO AUTOZONE. Find a local store (not chain store) with a person with an age higher than 40 years old behind the counter. Talk with him.

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

I don't mean to nitpick - I know that's the LAST thing you need right now - but your phrase "tries to start but just won't turn over" is confusing, at least to me.  I think we need to clarify before anybody can offer you helpful advice.

"Turn over" means the starter motor is causing the internal parts - crankshaft, pistons, etc. to move.

If the engine is turning over, but not starting, that could be either an ignition or fuel problem.

If the engine isn't turning over, then it's not even TRYING to start.  That could be starter, solenoid, ignition switch, neutral safety switch, or a loose or broken wire between any of those components.  Or a dead battery.

Do you have a meter that would let you tell us what your battery voltage is?  If not, are the headlights bright when you turn them on?  Have you tried to jump start it with jumper cables and another vehicle?

Regards
John

The battery is fine I had it tested and recharged, adter I tried jumping the vehicle. . It tries to start, as in makes noise like it is going to start, then just stops, sort of like a chugging sound. I have tried starting it in park and neutral. I am thinking it is a fuel thing, but it ran perfectly fine before I changed the plugs, I dont understand how changing spark plugs could make something else go wrong :/

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

I am going to assume that it was running before you replaced the plugs?  
Are the plugs the only thing replaced?
Did you have to remove anything besides the wires from the plugs (vacuum line or other wire)?  A broken vacuum line would make for your symptoms.


Most tune ups these days are plugs, wires, cap and rotor done somewhere around a 100k.
Exactly what vehicle/engine is this?  I've got CRS and can't remember what everybody is in.
Carb - fuel injection?

Have you tried sea foam sprayed down the throat of the carb (better than either)?  It sounds like their might be spark if it tries to hit every now and then.

Just trying to help and there is not a lot of info.
Brian

Yes the vehicle was running fine, it was at 112,000 with original spark plugs so i figured it really could use a change. The plugs are the only thing replaced. No lines or wires were removed, just the spark plugs. There was a small hose connecting to what looked like my air filter that was not attached when I first checked my engine, I reattached it to where it was supposed to be, but I dont think that could be it! 

I have not tried spraying anything yet, but maybe I should. It is a 1992 chevy g20 conversion van, 5.7 v8. I just cant see how changing the plugs would cause something else to go bad! Thanks for the help.

 

[B and C]

The vacuum line you attached to the air cleaner was probably at the snorkel.  This controls the flapper in the snorkel to pull warm air from the exhaust manifold into the air intake when the engine is cold.  That is what the large hose going to the exhaust manifold does is supply the hot air.  It helps cold drivability.

Being a '92, I think it has a carburetor.  Pull the top off the air cleaner and look down the carb throat.  While looking, move the gas pedal linkage to see if gas squirts out into the venturi.  If it is throttle body injection, you won't see any.  Squirting the carb will let you know if it is a fuel and or vacuum problem.

I still am thinking you pulled a larger vacuum hose off accidentally somewhere and it is pretty easy to do especially at the back of the carb base plate.

Brian

 

[Van-Tramp]

DHD, you need to *verify* that spark is getting to the plugs.

The only thing that car go wrong when you change the plugs is human error. If you fail to put the wires back on in the exact order required, the engine will not start. If you verify that the plugs are getting spark, then I would say you did not get those wires on in the correct firing order.

You did not replace the cap or rotor or wires? They too have original 112000 miles? There is no reason to change the plugs but leave everything else within the system unchanged. It does you no good to only change the plugs. You need to change the wires, rotor, and cap too (these are annual things, not once a lifetime). And if that coil has 112,000 miles on it, change it too.

 

[Canine]

I changed plugs in an old car I had, but a few days later it started running rough. I looked at the coil wire and the metal crimp inside of it had corroded and pitted so badly that it had no connection. I cut the end off, took off about a 1/2" worth of insulation off of the coil wire, and stuffed that into the rotor cap. Car started right up. I went to the parts store and replace the wires, too, and the car ran better than it ever did. Also did the cap and rotor. If your spark plug wires are 112,000 miles old, they are also waaaaaaay over due. And like VanTramp said, you need to replace all that other stuff, too. It is a must. I'm not surprised at all it won't start; I'm more surprised it was running before you changed the plugs.

Had a friend that couldn't start her vehicle. She flooded it so badly that she needed new plugs. Her car was fuel injected like your van is fuel injected and she still flooded it because she couldn't keep her foot off of the pedal while starting it (bad habit). If you are cranking on it so much that you are killing the battery, you may be flooding it.

Are you using the throttle while trying to start it? This may sound counter-intuitive, but if you think it is flooded, floor it and hold it there while you start it. It will begin to catch, but keep on the throttle -ALL THE WAY to the FLOOR- and don't let up on the key. It will puke black smoke, but keep it floored and let it rev up. Not as fast as it will go, but pretty fast until the black cloud from the exhaust clears and it starts running correctly again. That may not be enough, though, and it may need new plugs.

The reason you floor it is to get the correct ratio of gas and air. When flooded you have too much gas compared to the air. By flooring it you are introducing a bunch more gas AND a bunch more air- the correct ratio of gas/air- which pushes out the old gas/air mixture allowing it to start.

The flooding thing may not be your problem, but just in case it is, the info is there to use.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'll reinforce what some of the others said.  When you pull on old spark plug wires to get them off the plug, you can damage them internally so they no longer conduct.  At 112,00 mile, if they're still original, they are definitely due . . .

Regards
John

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

BTW, for future reference for anybody reading this thread, there are inexpensive tools for checking spark easily and safely.  Here's only one example:

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20610-I...=1441230588&sr=1-1&keywords=spark+plug+tester

Regards
John

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

DHD, you need to *verify* that spark is getting to the plugs.

The only thing that car go wrong when you change the plugs is human error. If you fail to put the wires back on in the exact order required, the engine will not start. If you verify that the plugs are getting spark, then I would say you did not get those wires on in the correct firing order.

You did not replace the cap or rotor or wires? They too have original 112000 miles? There is no reason to change the plugs but leave everything else within the system unchanged. It does you no good to only change the plugs. You need to change the wires, rotor, and cap too (these are annual things, not once a lifetime). And if that coil has 112,000 miles on it, change it too.

The cap, coil, and rotor have been replaced within the past month, it was just the plugs and wires that are original. Now that the plugs are new, I guess it either has to be a fuel related problem, or the wires. When I turn the key it acts like it wants to start, I can hear it cranking and chugging but it just wont catch. Ill get some wires tomorrow and redo that and see if it helps. My buddy thinks its the fuel pump? I do not know much about cars, but this is sure teaching me lol

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

Im gonna do more investigating tomorrow, ill check to see if I am getting a spark to the plugs, if not Ill redo the wiring. If still nothing then I will have to go more in depth. Its frustrating but it is what it is, gotta learn somehow.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok good advice so far. but I am still a little confused about your description. this "It tries to start, as in makes noise like it is going to start, then just stops, sort of like a chugging sound." so is your engine turning over someone else explained turning over, is it? by your description it doesn't sound like it. do you have someone that could help? if you do have them try to start it, while you watch your engine the fan belts and fan should be moving the whole time. do they? do they move a little and then stop moving? is there any way you could post a short video of what's it doing?

so lets assume it is turning over. you need 3 things to happen for it to run. it's the fire triangle if that helps. you need air(compressed air), heat(spark), and fuel. the heat/spark part must happen at the exact moment in time. so trying to find out where the problem lies is not that hard.

first check for spark, there are a few ways to do this. the easiest way is to put one of your old plugs in one of the spark plug wires and ground the metal part of the plug to your engine. then turn your engine over you should see a bright blue spark.

if you have a good spark. then check for fuel, with you air cleaner off pour a little(1/4cup) gas down the throttle body or use quick start. now turn your engine over it should fire an run a short time. now I hate to tell you how to keep it running this way because you don't have the experience.

so answer these questions then get back to us. we are here to help. highdesertranger

 

[Gary68]

i'll add the ol' make sure you got your wires pluged into the spark plug,some times you have to press pretty hard,you should feel it plug in,check for bad connections and anything you might of bumped doing the plugs

 

[MikeRuth]

Im gonna do more investigating tomorrow, ill check to see if I am getting a spark to the plugs, if not Ill redo the wiring. If still nothing then I will have to go more in depth. Its frustrating but it is what it is, gotta learn somehow.

I don't think anyone asked you this but they did mention firing order. 

Did you exchange the plugs one by one? IE you removed the plug boot removed the plug, installed new plug, replaced plug wire. Moved on to the next exactly the same one by one. 

If you pulled all the wires and then exchanged the plugs and reconnected them did you take any precaution to mark them> if not you very well may have them out of order. 

HDR of course is right as well, you need to be getting spark. 

Assuming you have spark at one of the plugs and you know the firing order was not changed then the possibility of having a damaged wire is high.

It's certainly possible to have pulled loose a vacuum line or for that matter damaged a brittle one but unless you were really not paying attention I'm incline to think this is not the issue.

 

[SoulRaven]

Nobody's mentioned this, and hopefully it didn't happen, but you mentioned that you got the wrong plugs at first. If they were too long, you could have poked holes into one or more piston tops.... I WANT to be wrong on this, but it does happen...

 

[ramblingvanman]

DHD, you need to *verify* that spark is getting to the plugs.

The only thing that car go wrong when you change the plugs is human error. If you fail to put the wires back on in the exact order required, the engine will not start. If you verify that the plugs are getting spark, then I would say you did not get those wires on in the correct firing order.

You did not replace the cap or rotor or wires? They too have original 112000 miles? There is no reason to change the plugs but leave everything else within the system unchanged. It does you no good to only change the plugs. You need to change the wires, rotor, and cap too (these are annual things, not once a lifetime). And if that coil has 112,000 miles on it, change it too.

This, check the firing order. The best way to change plugs on an unfamiliar vehicle is to take off one wire and plug at a time and replace it before moving on to the next.

 

[ramblingvanman]

The cap, coil, and rotor have been replaced within the past month, it was just the plugs and wires that are original. Now that the plugs are new, I guess it either has to be a fuel related problem, or the wires. When I turn the key it acts like it wants to start, I can hear it cranking and chugging but it just wont catch. Ill get some wires tomorrow and redo that and see if it helps. My buddy thinks its the fuel pump? I do not know much about cars, but this is sure teaching me lol

Before replacing the fuel pump, try spraying some carb cleaner to see if the engine tries to start. If it does, then you likely do have a fuel issue. If not, then it is probably a spark or timing issue. If you did not get the plug wires back on to the right plugs in the right order, that could be your problem.

 

[Almost There]

This, check the firing order. The best way to change plugs on an unfamiliar vehicle is to take off one wire and plug at a time and replace it before moving on to the next.

That was the first 'rule' of changing plugs or wires that I was taught! Only it didn't only apply to an unfamiliar vehicle - it was ANY vehicle EVERY time! The only engine you didn't need to do that on was the lawn mower...