Here we go again, Spark plugs changed, engine wont start.

[ramblingvanman]

That was the first 'rule' of changing plugs or wires that I was taught! Only it didn't only apply to an unfamiliar vehicle - it was ANY vehicle EVERY time! The only engine you didn't need to do that on was the lawn mower...

LOL, some engines you just do so many times, especially working large fleets, that you can just rip everything out at once and put it all back together from memory. 4.6, 4.9. and 5.0 Fords are examples for me.

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

This, check the firing order. The best way to change plugs on an unfamiliar vehicle is to take off one wire and plug at a time and replace it before moving on to the next.

Is there a place to get a diagram of the wiring order for my vehicle? I did them one at a time so I am pretty sure they would not have a chance to get mixed up out of order.

 

[ramblingvanman]

Is there a place to get a diagram of the wiring order for my vehicle? I did them one at a time so I am pretty sure they would not have a chance to get mixed up out of order.

You have a 350 Chevy, right? 1992? I thought you sad that, but I am not sure.

 

[B and C]

I don't know if it has changed over the years.  The last time I wrenched on a chevy V-8 was back in the seventies.  the firing order was cast into the intake manifold in front of the carb on one of the runners going to the cylinders.  The cylinders were also numbered on the end of the runners closest to the heads.  

When all is said and done, I think it will be something really simple.  That seems to be what always bites me, the simple, easily overlooked stuff.

I do not remember the direction the distributor rotor turns though.  Been a long time.

Brian

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

Okay so I grounded the plugs and got good spark, so the wires and everything are working correctly.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok you have spark. now do a fuel test. pour a little gas down the throttle body or use quick start and see if she fires. oh yeah a chevy distributer turns clockwise and the firering order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. highdesertranger

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

ok you have spark.  now do a fuel test.  pour a little gas down the throttle body or use quick start and see if she fires.  oh yeah a chevy distributer turns clockwise and the firering order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.   highdesertranger

I put some starter fluid in the carb, it REALLY wanted to start. The engine is turning, all belts are moving. My distributor cap has 2 screws in it to hold it down, do you know where I put the first plug wire in to start the pattern on the cap? It goes in a circle so I may have started one ahead which would put all of the wiring off in that case. I am getting so close!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I have to ask this - when you checked the plugs for spark, did you test all eight of them, or only one?

This sounds like it COULD be only 5 or 6 of the 8 plugs firing, and if it was running fine before you did the change, you could have damaged one or two spark plug wires when you pulled them off.

Regards
John

BTW, are you alone or do you have somebody who could help?  At night when it's dark, pop your hood and have somebody else turn it over.  If it's bad spark plug wires, you MIGHT be able see arcs between the wires and the block if the insulation is bad.

 

[Canine]

Okay so I grounded the plugs and got good spark, so the wires and everything are working correctly.

That is the incorrect way to check for spark. You must use a spark tester (like what Optimistic Paranoid recommended) to properly diagnose it. The pressure and fuel inside the burn chamber creates much higher resistance requiring more juice to create a spark. Checking the spark by simply grounding it shows that you have spark in an environment that has less resistance, but it tells you nothing about the environment that has more resistance. Your coil could be weak.

Is your air filter clean/new? If it is plugged enough, it will mess with your runability.

 

[highdesertranger]

here's your distributor wire diagram. 

highdesertranger

 

[29chico]

OP, you are getting some very good help here.  If your van is still giving you fits after verifying that the plug wires are installed correctly please read my intro in the nubie section and then message me.    

  Please note:  While it may look like your ride has a carb it actually is throttle body fuel injection. The super easy way to tell if your fuel pump is getting power and running is to turn the key from off to key on engine off position and to listen for the whirr of the fuel pump as it runs for 1-2 seconds.  If no whirr is heard find the fuel pump relay and pull it out and re-insert it three times.  Then try the above test again and listen for the whirr.   

Disclaimer, the above described test will not tell if your fuel pump is able to deliver the correct pressure to the fuel injector.

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

here's your distributor wire diagram. 

highdesertranger

Thank you for the diagram, that should be very helpful. I do have one question which might seem obvious. On the diagram is looks like there are 4 screws, mine has 2 screws holding it in place. I cannot tell where exactly I would start the pattern for my plug wires. Is there a specific place where I have to start the pattern and connect the wire from spark plug 1? Hope that makes sense lol

 

[ramblingvanman]

Thank you for the diagram, that should be very helpful. I do have one question which might seem obvious. On the diagram is looks like there are 4 screws, mine has 2 screws holding it in place. I cannot tell where exactly I would start the pattern for my plug wires. Is there a specific place where I have to start the pattern and connect the wire from spark plug 1? Hope that makes sense lol

The easiest way is to put the #1 piston at TDC(top dead center). With the distributor cap off, but the rotor on, remove the #1 spark plug. Slowly rotate the motor by hand; a ratchet on the crank pulley bolt usually works well; until you feel air pressure pushing your finger out of the plug hole. Using a small flash light and a soda straw(some people use a screwdriver, since you have never done this before I don't recommend you do), place the straw into the cylinder hole until it contacts the top of the piston. Move the crank back and forth until the straw is pushed out to it's maximum distance indicating the piston has reached it's maximum height. Note the position of the rotor, it should be pointing at or very near the proper post on the distributor cap. It may be slightly off depending on where your timing marks are located, and how many degrees of advance your vehicle requires. Now, set the notch on the crank pulley to the correct point and your rotor will be pointing exactly at the post for the #1 plug wire. It really is easier than it sounds.

 

[29chico]

Thank you for the diagram, that should be very helpful. I do have one question which might seem obvious. On the diagram is looks like there are 4 screws, mine has 2 screws holding it in place. I cannot tell where exactly I would start the pattern for my plug wires. Is there a specific place where I have to start the pattern and connect the wire from spark plug 1? Hope that makes sense lol

You need to have your engine at top dead center compression on the #1 cylinder. The timing marks will be at zero degrees at that point.  However, you could also be at the top dead center of the exhaust stroke. There are a few ways tho determine if you are at tdc of the compression stroke..  In your situation I would get the timing marks aligned as described and then look where  the metal tip on the rotor is pointing.  If the tip is pointing somewhere near the #1 plug wire location on the distributor cap in the diagram you are most likely on tdc of the compression stroke.  If the rotor tip is pointing roughly 180 degrees away you probably are on tdc of the exhaust stroke.  If that is the case you would need to turn the crank 360 degrees.  Once you have gotten it to tdc of the compression stroke the rotor tip should be right below the tower for the #1 cylinder in the dizzy cap.

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

Okay so after more work today I think it is a fuel problem. I am getting sparks from all the plug wires, I tested each one. If it was a fuel problem wouldnt started fluid start the engine at least for a few seconds? The engine is turning over, and sounds so close to starting but something is keeping it from happening. No matter how much starter fluid I put in the carb.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

if it was running before you changed the plugs, it is a very strange coincidence that you developed a fuel problem in the time it takes to replace plugs, not impossible but strange, in my opinion it sounds like your wires are not put back on, in the right order, but if you say you changed one at a time so this is unlikely, you have spark so no issue with your wires, coil, ignition modulator, or distributor however could still be a crossed plug wire, remember you changed the plugs twice so you could have made a mistake with a wire but not all of them so have a look at the wiring diagram and follow it most should be in the right order if any are mixed up they should be obvious. usually the wires are designed to reach each plug in length, good luck

 

[DreadHeadDrifter]

if it was running before you changed the plugs, it is a very strange coincidence that you developed a fuel problem in the time it takes to replace plugs, not impossible but strange,  in my opinion it sounds like your wires are not put back on, in the right order, but if you say you changed one at a time so this is unlikely,  you have spark so no issue with your wires, coil, ignition modulator, or distributor however could still be a crossed plug wire, remember you changed the plugs twice so you could have made a mistake with a wire but not all of them so have a look at the wiring diagram and follow it most should be in the right order if any are mixed up they should be obvious. usually the wires are designed to reach each plug in length, good luck

Thanks I will do this!

 

[highdesertranger]

well now. so it doesn't fire at all on quick start, right? sorry about the wrong diagram. that is for an HEI distributer, however the firering order is still the same. at this point you should find number 1 on your distributor like was previously explained. it's easy if your valve cover on the odd bank(driver side) is off. is it easy to pop off? watch the valves on #1 when the intake valve closes the next time the piston comes up is top dead center. at this time mark your balancer with white paint at the zero mark and mark your distributor where the rotor is pointing. now you should find the right diagram and see if it matches. let us know what you come up with. hopefully you haven't lost your timing. I will try to find the correct diagram. highdesertranger

 

[highdesertranger]

here you go.

highdesertranger

 

[NomadMike]

Did you get your plug wires from Auto Zone? If so ,were they one of the cheapie sets? The reason i ask is because i bought a set a few years ago for the old farm truck and after changing them out the truck would not start, checked all plugs for spark and they all had spark. To make a long story short, i tested the resistance of each plug wire, and 5 of the 8 were no good (had high resistance). I took them back and went to NAPA and bought one of the best sets they had, truck fired right up.