Heads up - weed

[IanC]

Just a heads up for anyone with weed in their vehicle when coming through immigration checkpoints.  I don't know if it's general, but I spoke to a couple at the campground in New Mexico.  At the check point on Interstate 10 outside El Paso is where it happened. They had a small quantity in a tupperware inside their freezer and the dog detected it, leading to a full search of their trailer and truck, they were arrested and fined and their dogs were impounded until they paid a hefty fine.  It wouldn't be worth it to me, that's for sure.

 

[John61CT]

Lucky all their property wasn't seized under civil forfeiture, happens a lot nowadays, gold mine for funding LE budgets.

 

[Gunny]

They have nailed everyone from Willie Nelson on down. Sierra Blanca is notorious.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/welcome-sierra-blanca-texas-black-378842

 

[jimindenver]

Want weed, go to Colorado, Washington or one the other states it is legal in. Want to risk everything you own, bring it across State lines.

 

[Gary68]

Want weed, go to Colorado, Washington or one the other states it is legal in. Want to risk everything you own, bring it across State lines.

colorado plates? have you been pulled over since leaving?

 

[TrainChaser]

Some places have their drug dogs trained to do a 'false alert' (TN is one of the states), usually with a hand signal. If your rig is ever being searched for anything, keep your eyes on both the dog and the handler, but mostly on the handler. Don't allow yourself to be distracted by another officer, etc.

 

[jimindenver]

colorado plates? have you been pulled over since leaving?

No I haven't. Should it happen there isn't anything to find.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

My Uncle up until 2014 would buy empty pill capsules and stuff them with weed in Alaska, put them in his Vitamin bottle and fly to Mass with them when he visited. Why on gods green earth he did this I still don't know as it's plenty easy enough to buy when he gets here. I asked him and he said he just liked the feel of getting away with something. He passed in late 2014, having a perfect record of never being caught.

Guessing this method wouldnt work for roadside checks where they use dogs. I don't smoke but if I liked too or needed too, I'd buy it when/where I could when camped and dispose of any left before hitting the road again. Or even better just do as jimindenver suggested and that's hunker down in the states that allow it and wait for the rest of the country to catch up

 

[TrainChaser]

I've heard that they walk around the outside of the vehicle, and then signal the dog to alert, which gives them probable cause, so they can 'legally' search the vehicle w/o a warrant.  In TN (and other states), once they're in the vehicle, they can confiscate anything, like cash, which is really what they're looking for, because it's fast and easy.  They can grab it and keep it -- w/o any proof that it was acquired through a criminal act.  Despite the fact that the Feds are apparently no longer allowed to indulge in asset forfeiture, no such rule applies to most of the states, who can still do it.  Here is a map which shows sort of how likely each state would participate in asset forfeiture:  http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/09/this-map-details-whether-asset-forfeitur

Here is a video of TN cops stopping and searching a car.  But the man whose car they're searching is a Federal Police Officer at the Marine Corps Air Station Miramar (Calif).  Note the two reasons that particular car was pulled over:  out of state plates, and a non-white driver.  Also note that there are three officers:  one takes the wife back to his car, one keeps the husband near the fence, and the third takes the dog around the car (the dog supposedly 'alerts' on the driver's side, after not alerting at the open window facing the owner), out of sight of both victims.  One of the cops actually says they expected to find money with them going that direction (4:35).  

This is no longer the America you grew up in, so don't expect to be considered honest and law-abiding just because you are.

 

[IanC]

This is no longer the America you grew up in, so don't expect to be considered honest and law-abiding just because you are.

In the America we grew up in there were no videos or Youtube to share them on. There was a lot going on because authority was never questioned, Many of the things that have now come to light were rampant in the good old days. Heck, a friend of mine tells stories of a sadistic local cop who would pick up random teens and take them down to the boat ramp and beat them up for the hell of it and not a single kid ever told their parents. Ditto, priests, teachers, parents themselves.  I just finished reading 'Citizen Hughes' - the story of Howard Hughes political influence buying.  It will knock your socks off to know what a facade we live in front of.  Nothing is what we think it is.  I don't know if things were better in the good old days at all. and I don't know which is worse - excesses that are prescribed by law or those that happen with a wink and a nudge.  One thing for sure is that the average citizen, whether they smoke some weed, claim a little something on their taxes that they shouldn't or have a friend punch you out at work, is pure as the driven snow in comparison to what happens in officialdom.

But, back on the dogs at checkpoints.  Given the extraordinary detection ability of the dogs, I wonder if they can detect a spot where pot USED to be, maybe a faint residue. I believe it was in the book 'The Intelligence of Dogs' the writer recounted an experiment where a scent trail was laid across a field.  The field was burned and then plowed and the dog could still detect the scent.  Personally, the gift I got as a 'going away present' in legal Massachusetts was long finished, but believe me, I scrubbed the cupboard it was in with Pinesol several times before venturing across the Sierra Blanca checkpoint - (the dog wasn't there anyway)

 

[Ballenxj]

Some places have their drug dogs trained to do a 'false alert' (TN is one of the states), usually with a hand signal.  If your rig is ever being searched for anything, keep your eyes on both the dog and the handler, but mostly on the handler.  Don't allow yourself to be distracted by another officer, etc.

There is/was a youtube video on exactly this. It was done by a retired leo with a guilty conscience over all the lives he had ruined for stupid things.
He said the dog was trained to alert via hand signal, not smell. This would give them probable cause to ransack your vehicle.
I couldn't find the original video I was referring to, but here's a short video 1:08 on what to watch for in a false alert.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Even if they give the dog a false alert and they then find stuff you're not supposed to have, good luck getting out of it. At best you can get a very expensive lawyer and hopefully beat the charges.

Reading these threads you'd think it was almost certain death for anyone going through these checkpoints. Remember most people will never have an issue. There are millions of interactions between police and civilians daily and almost all go with out a hitch. Cops are humans like you and I, and they have good ones, bad ones and ones that fall somewhere in between. They have families, and kids, and mom's and dad's of their own and all the human emotions that go along with it. And if you're ever in a life or death emergency I assure you, there isn't anyone you'd be happier to see.

 

[Ballenxj]

Even if they give the dog a false alert and they then find stuff you're not supposed to have, good luck getting out of it.  At best you can get a very expensive lawyer and hopefully beat the charges.  
<----snip---->
  And if you're ever in a life or death emergency I assure you, there isn't anyone you'd be happier to see.

No arguing here on both counts. That's why abstinence can be a very good thing.

 

[John61CT]

they can confiscate anything, like cash, which is really what they're looking for, because it's fast and easy.

Police departments have also been buying a system that lets them suck all the funds out of any prepaid cash cards they find.

 

[hepcat]

Some places have their drug dogs trained to do a 'false alert' (TN is one of the states), usually with a hand signal.  

"I went to the front door of the house, and my partner went to the back door.  I knocked and demanded entrance when I heard a male voice coming from somewhere in the rear of the house yell 'come in!' "

That kind of nonsense has been alleged to have been going on at least since the days of bootlegging.   And in some places it may yet.

I went through the border checkpoint on I-10 in mid-February in my van with my dogs and had a very pleasant conversation with the INS/ICE officer before he waved me through.   

When you hear some of these stories, you have to think that they're told because people are trying to justify why they got caught.  AND if you HAVE dope in the car, why WOULDN'T the dog 'alert?"

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

So let's bottom line this:

Never, EVER, consent to a search of your vehicle or trailer.  As soon as they ask for that, say NO and then ask if you are being detained or if you are free to leave.  Be polite, don't discuss it or debate it.  They are hoping you will consent to avoid "looking guilty".  You don't care if you look guilty.  They may tell you that they can get a warrant.  If they could get a warrant, they wouldn't ask your permission in the first place.

If they say you are free to leave, leave immediately.  If you don't leave immediately, you have consented to being detained.   If they say you are not free to leave, immediately make a note of the time and politely ask for the cop's name and badge number.  Supposedly, "detentions" on the side of the road can only be for a "reasonable" amount of time.  If they take too long to get a "drug sniffing" dog there, It's possible your lawyer can get any charges thrown out.

If you've never been convicted of a felony, almost any unloaded rifle or shotgun - with the possible exception of something a fascist state defines as an "assault weapon" - is legal to have in your car.  Handguns can be more problematical in some places - NYC, DC, etc.  Best to have a valid CCW whenever possible.

Don't carry illegal drugs.

Don't carry large amounts of cash.  Just stop and get a reasonable amount out of a bank or atm every so often.

Follow these rules and the worst that can happen - probably - is getting written up for a speeding ticket

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

While doing a little online research on this, I ran across something cute:

Drug Checkpoints (it’s a trap!)
 
The Supreme Court has ruled that random checkpoints for the purpose of finding illegal drugs are unconstitutional

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Indianapolis_v._Edmond>.

However, some police departments have devised a deceptive method to work around and exploit this restriction. Here’s how their trick works.
 
Police departments sometimes put up signs warning drivers of upcoming drug checkpoints. (This alone is not illegal.) But they will /not/ pull
over people who go through a checkpoint – because there /technically/ is no checkpoint. Instead, officers will watch for vehicles approaching the
nonexistent checkpoint and pull over for vehicles who make illegal u-turns or discard contraband in order to avoid the fictitious “Drug Checkpoint Ahead.”
 
So if you see such signs, keep driving and don’t panic. If there’s a rest area following the sign, DO NOT pull into it. If you do, you might find yourself surrounded by drug-sniffing dogs.
 
Police departments, especially in the Mid-west, have been pushing their luck with this tactic, so if you encounter anything resembling an actual
drug checkpoint, please contact that state’s ACLU Chapter <http://www.aclu.org/affiliates/index.html>. Similarly, if you’re arrested as a result of a real or fake “drug checkpoint,” you must contact an attorney to explore your legal options.

Found it here:

https://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/my-rights-at-checkpoints/

 

[TrainChaser]

IanC:  

Of course, there were things going on when we were kids that we never knew about!  That stuff has been going on for a few thousand years. Here, it’s been happening since the Puritans. But since I grew up in the 50s and 60s, a lot of the bad stuff has been ‘refined’; it’s not one bad bully-boy in the department, it’s now the entire department.  Our Constitutional rights have been deliberately eroded away in the last 50-60 years, a little bit at a time, and many people never noticed simply because it hasn't effected them.

I believe the scent limitations vary for different odors.  Human air scent (for tracking dogs) can be followed for several hours up to about four days, depending on weather conditions, although the record for a Bloodhound is about 330 hours (almost 14 days).  Oil-based scents (which pot would probably be) can last for much longer.

ERLH: “Even if they give the dog a false alert and they then find stuff you're not supposed to have, good luck getting out of it. At best you can get a very expensive lawyer and hopefully beat the charges.”

Most of the time, you don’t have to get out of it.  They don’t want the work and expense of actually charging and trying you; every time a cop sits in a court room waiting to testify, they missing out on a lot of victims. If they find your cash and several gift cards, all they often do is ‘conficate’ them, and you’re free to go.

And….. “…most people will never have an issue.”

Probably not.  It isn’t physically possible to search every car.  And if you’re white, much less likely.  But if you have out-of-state plates and darker skin, all of a sudden the odds are decreased.  And odds mean NOTHING if you’re the one they fix on, even if it's just based on a bad tail light.

Hepcat:  “When you hear some of these stories, you have to think that they're told because people are trying to justify why they got caught.  AND if you HAVE dope in the car, why WOULDN'T the dog 'alert?’

The people with drugs aren’t the issue here!  If you’re using drugs that are illegal in the area and get caught, tough luck!  This is about how some law enforcement departments DON’T CARE if you’ve got drugs or not, they just want the money.  It’s called CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE:  

“Civil forfeiture allows police to seize — and then keep or sell — any property they allege is involved in a crime. Owners need not ever be arrested or convicted of a crime for their cash, cars, or even real estate to be taken away permanently by the government.”   https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/asset-forfeiture-abuse

This.  Is.  Illegal.  But most people don't worry about it until it happens to them.

 

[John61CT]

So the War on Drugs is still fulfilling its original intended purpose.

"We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or blacks, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities" 

John Ehrlichman, Nixon’s domestic-policy adviser at the time

http://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all

 

[Gunny]

I'm not sure anyone is interested but if you check the differences in authority or powers of different agencies of Dept of Homeland Security agencies you will find that Border Patrol within 30 miles as the crow flies from any US Border has almost unlimited search powers. They do not need probable cause. When they pull you in for inspection they don't have to tell you squat. Play the hard core "I"m not letting you search" and see how that plays out.

ICE is another branch that has basic Police powers and is supposed to follow the 'rules' and is not supposed to identify themselves as police. They do anyway and do it with impunity. They operate nationwide.

I've been thru checkpoints hundreds of times and never searched or bothered. On my last ill fated trip from California I was asked if I was a US citizen for the first time at Sierra Blanca. Disabled Vet plates, USMC Eagle Globe and Anchor but he still asked.

Someone made the comment that cops are who you call in an emergency. Nope, I have called twice to give a report so my insurance would pay. Even in my less than perfect physical condition I can resolve a problem long before the first cop arrives. When my house was burglarized the dispatcher was more concerned that I was standing outside with my weapon than she was that my house had been trashed.

As someone who was at one time a very pro law-enforcement type I have found don't trust many of the police. No offense to anyone who was or is a Police Officer, it's just a cumulative opinion after so many shootings of people doing nothing or very minor things wrong.

Don't carry dope thru Sierra Blanca.

Rob