Getting started?

[ValerieP]

I've come to the conclusion that I need to hire help to get this van converted! I have a plan, but really no skills that will help me get started. I still have the rails in my Chevy Extended bed van.
I have the headliner out, the side wall plastic out, and the seats out, and all of the stuff I need to store- put in the van.
Who/what type of business would I call to get the rails removed? Could I trust an unskilled person to take them out?
I think the next thing I would need to do is get someone to put 30 amp electricity in it and set it up for solar, or at least with the batteries I would need to keep a fridge running while going from one place to another. 
I will need to run an air conditioner powered from a generator and/or shore power periodically in the summer. I want to visit my grands in the summer South Carolina, and I travel with dogs.
I will need to run a refrigerator/charge devices/and have lights, which I think could be done off solar that should fit on top of the van. 
It would also be nice to have a couple of outlets that would work via solar or plugged in or off a generator. 
Since electrical is beyond me, who/ which type of business would I call? 
Is there anyone in southern Nevada who knows how to do this stuff?
I'm going to get a high top on it in the next few months, so I'm saving for that now, but would  like to get the electrical business done Dec, and then the wood part- bed/walks/floor/cabinets done Jan/Feb
I was going to save for a Casita that would have all the workable stuff in it, and just use the van for an extra room, but the more I think about, the more sense it makes to just put what I want in the van and not worry about towing anything around for the next few summers.
I plan to work 3 or so more years so I'll have a livable retirement, so in the meantime I'm saving by living in a travel trailer. I'm not quite sure what I'll do when I retire, but living in the van may be where I'm headed, so I want to do this properly while I'm working and I can.
It was quite a transition from a house with a yard to a TT,  but I'm adjusted so much now that this 21ft of living space seems big!
As always, I appreciate any and all advice!

 

[Gideon33w]

There's a few members on here who could do the whole build for ya. I'm in southern AZ and could do it.
But, I'd suggest waiting until you get the high top in before doing any work besides maintenance.

As for electricity ... Solar will run a DC fridge or a regular standing freezer converted to a fridge. Beyond that and you will need TONS of solar wattage and batteries. Stick with a DC fridge and led lighting and you can do it with 2x 100W panels and a couple deep cell batteries no problem. The ability to switch to shore power is no biggie though.

As you figured, a generator will be needed to run an AC unit. You can mount a hitch tray and put a small inverter generator in a box on it. Several members have had great success that way. If you plan to tow a casita you wouldn't be able to go that route though. Which would mean mounting it inside the van in an enclosed box with lots of vents to the outside.

Ultimately, if you plan to get a casita I wouldn't bother doing much with the van besides making it your mobile power station for the trailer. Anything else will be wasted since you'll be living out of the trailer anyways.

 

[ValerieP]

Sounds great- I am ditching the idea of buying the Casita. I really don't want to tow something, if I can figure out how to get the van outfitted. I'll start looking at the dc fridges.
Any idea who/ what type of business person I can hire to get the rails out?
Thanks

 

[Almost There]

A body shop will have the tools to remove the rails.

While I know you're anxious to get the electricity in, but it really shouldn't be done first.  Since you're planning on building/having built a regular bed and counter space/cabinets and a finished floor they need to come first so that all the electric stuff can be run and placed in the exact right spot. Since you're planning on adding a high top you also will want wires up there for the fan and lighting.

Finding someone other than some of us to do the job can be downright difficult. Electricians that do houses don't cope well with 12V systems. RV techs who actually do repairs on RV electrical stuff don't do it from scratch. The cost of  having an RV shop do it would put you in bankruptcy.  You're really better off learning about electrical yourself because knowledge is power (and not the kind that makes the lights work.... ) Managing electrical needs for off-grid living takes understanding of how one produces and stores it.

I knew very little when I started this whole thing and there are still some things that make my eyes roll to the back of my head on occasion.

I designed my own electrical system and then had help doing the install because I have no strength of hands. I can run wires but not crimp the connections.

I have 3 way charging of my battery bank - solar, 120/generator and alternator. I have 8 - 12 v outlets placed where I want them, 2 - 120V outlets that are wired to my inverter and 2 more outlets that are only powered when hooked up to generator or shore power. The battery bank is sized to match my electrical needs and the battery charger is sized to properly charge the batteries so I don't screw them up. The number of outlets I have is  probably more than most people would want but if you've ever been short an outlet in the kitchen you know that it's better by far to have too many than too few.

Take a look at my build thread (link in signature line). It stops where the electrical starts since I did it once I was on the road but I can detail it for you if you want.

I lived for the first 6 months on the road with a rechargeable lantern and a headlamp  for lighting and a pair of coolers for refrigeration until the wiring was all done. now I appreciate being able to plug things in and understand how things work.

 

[Gideon33w]

I agree with the electrical AFTER most of the interior. It just isn't like building a house and you're trying to fit a lot in a small space.

Pre-running wiring for a vent fan and ceiling mounted lights (I prefer not to mount lights to the ceiling for serviceability though) is about it and that needs to be done after the high top install. Though, you could pre-run wiring to the top and leave the ends dead until the high top is in place and then extend as needed.

For a simpler electrical setup you can always run separate systems. Then plug into the power source you have up as needed. Not the most elegant solution but hard to goof even with only basic knowledge. Since you aren't actually tying anything together. Plus, if something goes down it can't affect the other systems. This is what I did previously. A dedicated 12v power system charged by solar. Including an inverter for 110 AC power. And then a separate outlet bank for shore power when available. Could do the same with a hitch mounted generator.

 

[gapper2]

Hi Val, Remember me from your other thread.  I went through that removing the rail stuff (actually crap) several months ago.  I've got to give a big shoutout to Almost There.  She continually has shown she knows how to get the job done and to give people really good advice.  If I wore a hat it would be off to you.

But to answer your question of could an unskilled person remove your rails.  I have a little very little auto mechanical experience, I do have a good mechanical background.  I found that if you can turn a wrench, use a drill, use a hammer and punch, use a very basic set of mechanics tools, use a pop riveter, and have lots of patience (it gets a little frustrating, just take a step at a time)  that it's really not complicated at all just a litte tedious.  I found that the only part that might get you in trouble is removing the drive shaft.  There the important thing to remember is to put it back just like it came out. mark both the drive shaft and transmission casing real well.  The transmission end of the drive shaft is splined so it's real easy to get back in the exact way it came out.  The drive shaft is only held in by 8   11mm nuts.  Oh jack stands or ramps are needed to give you lots of room to work.

Almost There's suggestion of a body shop is good as long as they can remove and replace a drive shaft properly. Otherwise you might get vibration from an unbalanced drive shaft.  Figuring out where the nuts that hold the rails on takes a little time because quite a few are hidden under heat shields and gas tank.

 Good luck on getting yours done.  I'm done with that part just got so much other stuff to do.    

Yeah.  I'd get the floor before electrical.  Easier to do with stuff not in the way.

 

[ValerieP]

Thanks!
Ok- I'll look up body shops and call them Monday!
I think, I thought all things electrical had to be done before walls and floors because the 30 amp wiring in my cargo trailer was between the plywood walls and the metal.

Almost there- I don't remember seeing wiring in Bob's video so it must be behind the walls?
Yes, I would love more details of your wiring.
I think the part that confuse me the most is the idea of having both D.C. Outlets and 110 outlets, but I guess if a fridge ran off dc, it would need that type of outlet? Or are there adapters?
What else might need a dc plug?
It sounds almost as though you might have 2 systems like Gideon proposed?
The "need" for dc plugs and 110 plugs really is the bit that confuses me the most.
Doesn't all of the energy, regardless of the source become converted to 110?
Again, I appreciate your answers!
I keep telling myself that if I had paid more attention to the knowledge of my dad, or if he still lived down the road, this would all be as simple as pie...
I will start trying to learn more. I think, I can almost figure out the wood parts- it should be like sewing, right?

 

[Gypsy Clipper]

Stop over thinking this. Get on Craigslist in the services section and look for a handyman.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044R using Tapatalk

 

[Gypsy Clipper]

Everything I have ever needed done since my divorce has been done via this method. It's not brain surgery. All the brilliant men out there that are just dying to help you are on Craigslist. Just don't reduce this to anything more than a business transaction and get it done within your boundaries.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044R using Tapatalk

 

[ValerieP]

Gapper2- it was the drive line business that worried me. There is a young fellow who will do it for me, but the drive line business makes me worried. Someone else offered to take them out by shearing off the bolts, but they haven't followed up on that offer.
I certainly do not know anything about drive line removal.
When I call the body shop I'll ask about a guarantee.
Otherwise, I might just leave them in there, and put extra insulation on the floor under the plywood. I think I will only lose a little less than 2 inches and I'll gain 20 with the high top-
So my walk around height would be about 72- 6 foot. I'm 5.5 so it should be ok.
The air conditioner will take a couple of inches, which still leave me 4" clearance.
I guess at this point, I'll have to see.
My other option would be to wait until I get to South Carolina and have my sons do it.

 

[ValerieP]

Gypsy Clipper- good idea, although I don't trust Craiglust, but I do trust word of mouth, so I'll ask around.
And, I must say, what isn't brain surgery for one, very well may be to another...

 

[Gideon33w]

In a van, you don't want to run electrical in the walls. Run everything externally.

No such thing as a 12v to 110v plug adapter. DC and AC power are two entirely different things. You need an inverter to turn DC (vehicle, solar, battery) to AC (house plug sockets). Similar for AC to DC, such as your cell phone charger which turns AC into low level DC to charge your phone. Many DC refrigerators have built in components to run on either however. You'd just have to remember to switch. Or, run the fridge ONLY on DC and just use the AC power to keep your batteries topped off. There's a few different ways to do it.

If you have a healthy sized solar array and battery bank you wouldn't ever need to switch anything to shore (AC) power. Just leave it on DC and leave it alone. Just use the AC shore power to run your air conditioner so you don't have to use the generator for it constantly. Again, separate systems with no switching is the simplest. A 12v DC solar setup to run all your 12v needs (fridge, lights, vent fan, etc), a small inverter so you have regular 110 AC (produced by your solar/batteries) for misc stuff designed to run on AC. Then add your air conditioner which can be run off the hitch mounted generator or shore power.

As for a local handyman for the rails ... Probably not a terrible idea. I wouldn't have that same person do anything else to do with the conversion though. The details of how to convert a van for vandwelling is just something most people who haven't done it can't understand and if you don't have the knowledge to walk them through it ... You'll just end up redoing things.

 

[gapper2]

Val, the rails are close to the 2 inch.  With your heighth (or lack of.  Sorry couldn't resist that.) the hightop may be enough for you but I don't think you're allowing for the flooring height.

  I've got a sawzall and cosidered cutting the bolts but I don't believe you can do it without really deep scratching the floor up.  I also have in-perfect condition rails that I had hoped to sell? Want to buy em?   The bolts are welded to the rails and fairly close together so lifting a rail enough to get a blade in was not doable for me.

 Drive shaft removal and replacement is really not hard. might be a little intimidating if you've never done it.  Just straitline mark it at several places and match the lines up.  If it's off one spline count the marking lines won't line up.  I'm not sure if it will make that much difference.  In fact I wonder if some shops even remember to do that.  Probably depends on who does it.

Giddeon knows his sh_t too.

 

[ValerieP]

Thanks! I will make sure I show whoever does it, your advice! At least I have a little better direction to go now.

 

[gapper2]

Val,  I can take photos of the rails and note the bolt distance which will make it alot easier to guess where the nuts are from underneath if you decide to get someone you know to do it for you.  If you do let me know, BUT we've got what I hope are the remnants of Irma coming close enough that I hope won't put too many trees down.  Won't know till after Mon. night.  I'm still gonna park my van at the top of the hill. ne GA

 

[Almost There]

Thanks!
Ok- I'll look up body shops and call them Monday!
I think, I thought all things electrical had to be done before walls and floors because the 30 amp wiring in my cargo trailer was between the plywood walls and the metal.

Almost there- I don't remember seeing wiring in Bob's video so it must be behind the walls?
Yes, I would love more details of your wiring.
I think the part that confuse me the most is the idea of having both D.C. Outlets and 110 outlets, but I guess if a fridge ran off dc, it would need that type of outlet? Or are there adapters?
What else might need a dc plug?
It sounds almost as though you might have 2 systems like Gideon proposed?
The "need" for dc plugs and 110 plugs really is the bit that confuses me the most.
Doesn't all of the energy, regardless of the source become converted to 110?
Again, I appreciate your answers!
I keep telling myself that if I had paid more attention to the knowledge of my dad, or if he still lived down the road, this would all be as simple as pie...
I will start trying to learn more. I think, I can almost figure out the wood parts- it should be like sewing, right?

If the drive shaft on yours has to be removed then a mechanic is better than a body shop. Check with each to see who wants to do the job.

The trailer was prewired before the walls went in but they weren't doing a custom job of putting the outlets where you needed them. They stick them where THEY figured they should go and there was no cabinetry involved, just the walls. Much easier job.

Bob's video of my van was done before I ran the wiring. I think I had one length of 15' of romex in and that was it.

My Whynter fridge compressor units will run on either 12V or 120V but since batteries are 12V it's simpler and more power economical just to use the 12V system. If I was going to take the unit out of the van and put it in a house, I'd use the 120 cord.

No, all energy does not have to be 120V... sticks and bricks in North America use 120V alternating current (AC), automobiles use 12V direct current (DC). You don't need to know the difference between alternating and direct to be able to use them...don't start rolling your eyes....

12V outlets look like this: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/mari...ptacle-and-plug--P009_275_007_002?recordNum=1

just like the accessory outlet on the dash but better quality. There are other ways of connecting to a 12V power source but we'll keep it simple for now! Won't we guys....  

Obviously 120V cords won't plug in to 12V outlets nor will any 120V appliances work on 12V or vice versa. That's where an inverter comes in - it changes 12 volts to 120 volts - just like magic...   Inverters have to be sized for the job so we'll leave it at that for right now.

And yes, my Dad was an electrical design packaging engineer and I dearly miss him. BUT he did for me instead of teaching me, particularly in all things electrical. Now getting dirty in his garage was a given and I had to fix my own bicycle if I broke it but...sigh...not the power stuff!

Parts of my electrical system are stand alone...2 of the outlets are 120V and are directly wired to a circuit breaker box just like you'd have in a house. Unlike in a house, it's not connected to electricity 24/7/365. I have an inlet on the van bumper that I can plug in to a house with or connect the generator and get 120V power.

Parts of the electrical system are straight 12V - the batteries connect to a fuse block and wires run from it to the outlets, the light fixtures and the fan.

Where things get combined are where the batteries are connected to the inverter which is wired to a pair of regular house outlets so I can run small appliances on 120V from the 12V system. Also, all battery chargers are 120V so it's wired in to the circuit breaker but it charges the 12V battery system...again just like magic...

 

All of this needs to be powered somehow so I have 3 sources of power. The engine alternator can charge the batteries when I've driving. Solar can charge the batteries when I set up the panels and there is sufficient sunshine. I can plug in an extension cord when I have shore power (120V) and I can set up the generator system and plug in to it when nothing else is available. Batteries can be thought of simply as a means of storing power so you can use it later when you're not driving/the sun ain't shining/you're not hooked up to shore/gennie.

All of this needs to be set up so that there is enough power stored for when you need it. That's why we always talk in terms of 'what do you need to run'. The need determines the size of battery bank. The size of the battery bank determines how much solar you need and how big a battery charger you need to get all that power in to the battery bank.

And yes, a background in sewing is an excellent starting point for doing simple carpentry particularly in a van. You'll be dealing with complex curves, matching seam lines, etc. The biggest difference - in sewing you need seam allowances, in carpentry you need a way to join two pieces of wood together but without seam allowances. The tools are a little noisier that's all...

 

[ValerieP]

Darn, I hope ugly Irma leaves you alone. I truly hate hurricanes, that was one of the reasons I moved from S Carolina and I've been worried all week about my kids in S Carolina. And now that it's turned so much, Georgia is definitely a concern- stay safe! I would love the pics, but after this bit of weather is perfectly fine!

 

[ValerieP]

I just checked out the fridges, and-wow! I did not realize that I could just plug it into the cigarette lighter as we are driving down the road. That certainly simplifies things. Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[deadwood]

When I started my electrical I knew very little about DC power. After hours and hours of research it started to make sense. I was also lucky to have a brother who works as an electrician on oil rigs and has lived on a boat. It helps to have someone look over what you are planning to make sure it looks good. The forum is great for that.

As I was planning my electric I thought about what I would be using and how I would be using them. I don't have a microwave or a coffee maker or a toaster or a hair dryer or etc.... I never wanted to be hooked up anywhere and don't want to go to an RV park. This is when I realized that I could build a purely DC system. Lights, fridge, fan. They all run on DC only. I can charge my phone, tablet or computer off of the 12v outlets I have. So I have a fairly simple electric setup compared to others but it does what I need and does it well.

I only have one charging source right now and that is solar. I do plan to add a way to charge off the alternator later but for now solar keeps up very well.

If you are planning to run some sort of Air Conditioner in the summer you will need some sort of AC power to run it. But you could start with a simple system and then add to it as you figure out what you need.

 

[Sailing VANessa]

Hi. My VANessa still has the seat rails. I just did what you said, and added insulation. I did not put plywood on thp of the rails, but rather "between@ them, supported by some 2x2's. Works for me, and I don't have a high top. I guess I'm getting used to it.