Gas vs Diesel

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WanderingBiker

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as everyone knows Ive been looking for a tow vehicle... at least a 2500 (3/4 ton) chevy or dodge... the sticking point is finding a manual transmission....

I have found a few duallies (not wanted) and more diesels, one dodge and not chevys that are for sale....

I have seen a little chatter about gas vs diesel... 

whats the pros and cons that people have experienced...

thanks
 
Diesel in the US gets crazy expensive, routine maintenance even if infrequent is as expensive as major fixes for a gasser.

But the engine may go half a million miles before an overhaul is required, so if you travel 30K miles a year maybe works out?

Wrenching skills to DIY make all the difference.

I'm looking specifically for a GM / Chevy gas truck with the 8.1L engine and 4.10 axle ratio.

Only time I see manual trannie is the big 6500 / 7500 ones like cherry pickers or dump trucks.

School buses are bargain of the century compared to most trucks.
 
Your best bet to find a stick in recent years, at least, is a Ram. They still make them today for sale with the Cummins unless I'm mistaken, and are I think, the last of the American-mades to offer them.

You can search here:

https://www.autotrader.com/

and set up filters for only diesel, only stickshift, 4x4 or no, etc, almost all the way down to finding a specific truck. I recently located my own hard-to-find truck on this website, after a long, difficult search. Hope it helps you too!
 
I worked in the service dept at a GM dealership for 14 years...saw exactly 1 2500 with a manual transmission in that time.
 
A diesel that is out of warranty is a liability rather than an asset. I had a ford diesel and a cylinder cracked. It would cost more to replace the engine than I could buy two of those trucks for. If someone says they will run forever see if they will sign a contract to pay for the repairs. My first pick would be a Chevy with a 6.0 gas motor.
As far as diesels go the Cummins are about the best.
 
I have an old 1978 Jeep truck that is 4 speed but with the super low Ford first gear is basically a three speed with 4.10 diff gears and a 360 cu. in. V8 will lug you around almost like an automatic. It was a $1500 beater when I bought it some want to be miner set up to haul a drill rig who happened to be a machinist. Mechanically it is great. Body is so rough and rides so rough my wife won't get in it, and now she has ankle and knee problems she can not drive it. Last year when we traveled I carried all the gear in the truck and she drove her Toyota Sequioa. I really like my truck but as my joints wear out I really think a well set up Chevy Surburban with an automatic, cruise control, and some manual overide controls would make a better tow vehicle and easier to find. There a lot of old Jeep trucks out there if you are willing to build them it could be an option. I really, really like mine as I'm really tired at the end of the day traveling and sleep well, but I think the Surburban will be my next tow vehicle as we both can drive it. As you get older you start to think about these things, just saying.
 
I have both a gas and a diesel. I would only recommend the diesel if you are towing 8000lbs or more. Chevy auto transmissions are reliable. A stick shifts only advantage is on very rough off road terrain; you can put in granny low and slow roll down steep grades.
A huge plus on the Chevy diesels is the Allison transmission. For Chevy/GMC the best year of diesel is 2006.
For a really easy to work on and reliable diesel 1996-98 12 valve Cummins Dodge trucks are the best you can get, the Dodge auto transmissions aren't that good and a stick would be preferable.

I really like the gas Chevys as a rebuilt long block is super cheap (for the small block engines)
The gas 2500s are cheap to buy.
Any Ford diesel truck from the 2000s is really bad except the big 7.3 for diesel.
Early Duramax Chevys (2001-2003) will have injector problems that cost 3-4k to repair, many of them have had the injectors replaced already, mine was just replaced when i bought it.
 
Suburban 2500s were made with the 8.1L as well, some 4x4 too.

Unloaded in the back, would have a very heavy tow rating.
 
Itripper said:
 A stick shifts only advantage is on very rough off road terrain; you can put in granny low and slow roll down steep grades.  

Lots of good info in your post, as always... I just want to say that many of the newer multi-speed automatics, (usually more than 4 gear ratios) in 4WD with lo-range, are coming out with push-button operated 'Hill Descent Control'....this keeps the auto in low gear and selectively applies brakes using ABS sensors to individually brake the wheels as they slip on a steep, loose downhill surface. 

It's pretty slick!  (see what I did there?)

:p

(Full disclosure: no I have not yet driven one down a steep loosely packed trail to compare with a manual in the same situation)
 
And those towing heavy loads (10k+) in the mountains with the 8.1L say the automatic trannies with Tow Mode are much more effective than most drivers ever would be shifting manually.

Other than big rig drivers maybe.

They're designed to be run at (what sounds like to us) very high rpm when needed.
 
If you are on a tight budget then don't consider diesel.  They get expensive so fix real quick.  Chevy 6.0 is a good choice and there are some Dodge 360's out there that are still good, but dollar for dollar I'd be hard pressed to consider anything other than the Chevy 6.0 especially if your money is tight.
 
a few points, lots of misinformation on this thread,

a diesel engine is far and away more efficient then a gas engine. even if you compare an old tech diesel to the most modern gas engine, the diesel is more efficient by 2to1.

the od IDI diesel is a very simple engine. so simple in fact it's almost unbelievable. people wanting to go 80mph up mountain passes and the government have removed simple from the modern diesel, just like they have for the modern gasser.

I like this one, "a diesel engine cost a lot more to maintain" really. the service interval is the same, you replace the same parts, air filter, oil filter, fuel filter and oil. if you buy quality parts how much more can it be? 2-3 times more oil. the quality filters are a few bucks more for diesel but not breaking the bank more. now if you are buying cheap stuff for your gasser then yes a diesel is a lot more. if you are taking you vehicle to one of those 20 buck oil change places you might as well not even service it.

on the west coast diesel is about the same price as mid grade gas. actually until recently diesel was significantly cheaper then even regular.

now for these complicated 5,6,8, etc speed transmission, they are great when they work but you better bring the Vaseline when they fail because it's going to hurt.

I don't like a computer deciding what gear I should be in. terrain dictates that. on the ranch we had one of those tow mode transmissions. going down steep declines the thing would never be in the right gear always to high. then when you would down shift it would up shift talk about soiling your shorts.

let the hate begin.
highdesertranger
I know all you with new vehicles say I am crazy. but my manual trans cost about 450 bucks to rebuild, and never just stops working. my diesel in my old chevy starts at a couple of hundred bucks used. a refreshed one with a warranty start at about 2k. brand new they start at about 5k.
 
The OP does not say, but my comments are wrt models sold in the last few years, maybe 10-15 old the most ancient candidates.

And an owner who doesn't have tge skills / tools to work on it themselves.

As you say, the modern diesels are no longer simple, and that combined with fewer / more expensive shops is what tips the scales.

Now, someone buying a truck to only use it between say 50-150K and then selling it, probably comparable.

But from 150K onward I'm pretty sure a 2005-2015 gasser will be cheaper per mile and per year than a diesel.
 
I think all diesel vehicles that are used for towing (especially in the mountains) should have an engine or exhaust brake. 

Period. Make it a law or something. 

Let the hate begin.

:p
 
Good reading here. I totally forgot about modern abs, I have not done any hard off roading since I sold my 74 Ramcharger.  Does abs work well for going downhill?
More on topic. If you are on a very tight budget, get a gasser.  If you are able to put away a couple of thousand for possible repairs and you will be towing heavy loads you can't beat a diesel, the older the cheaper the repairs.
06 Duramax is the best of the Chevy diesels, here is a decent guide on the diesel Chevys Duramax guide
For Dodges the 96 to 98 12 valve diesels are the easiest and cheapest of all diesels to maintain, and can run on almost anything, great apocalypse vehicles. The older the Dodge the better for costs to maintain here is an equally good guide on the Dodge Cummins Dodge Guide 
For Ford the year 2000 is the absolute best, and all their diesels after 2003 are bad news, each generation of engine gets crazy expensive to repair and very unreliable.Ford Diesel Guide

All diesels after 2007 have lots of emissions equipment that causes lots of problems.

I'm invested in my Duramax but if I could do it over again I would get a 12 valve cummins/dodge long bed 4x4 xtra cab because I know I could do all the work on the engine myself, on my Duramax I can only do about half.

If you are towing light (6k or less) a good gasser Chevy/GMC would be my choice, the small block engines a very reliable and cheap to repair, the transmissions are good and the trucks can be picked up dirt cheap. I have an 01 Z71 Silverado 4x4 with the 5.3 and it is very easy to work on, plus has dash push button lockers for the axles front and rear and gets 15mpg. My Duramax gets 20 unloaded and 15 towing the 5th wheel.

BTW my gasser is a 1/2 ton 4x4 but I have towed cars on car trailers easily with it, I'm guessing around 5500lbs weight and it does it easily with the 5.3 engine.

Now if you are willing to go really old, the 360 Dodge trucks from the early 70's are ultra reliable, or even better the late 60s Dodge trucks have forged cranks and rods on their 318s, those engines will never break. Or you could go even way back in the time machine and get a 60's slant 6 Dodge, nothing will stop that engine, but they have no horsepower, I have personally towed 2 automobiles over 2000 miles with a slant 6 65 Dodge 1/2 ton a(lots of first gear on the mountains).

One other gas engine that gets good mileage and is super strong and very easy to work on is the straight 6 300 cid Fords from the 80's, buy far the easiest and most reliable of more modern engines. They are slow but have great torque.
 
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