Fuse vs Circuit-Braker

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CosmickGold

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I see Renogy sells fuses: 10A between solar panels and Rover charger, and 40A between Rover and battery.

Since fuses are "use once and throw away", is there any reason not to use resettable circuit breakers instead?
 
it all depends on a lot of things,

beware of cheap junk circuit breakers this is especially true of the stuff sold to the car stereo crowd.
some circuit breakers are not intended to be used as a switch
match your fuses or breakers to your application AC, DC, Amps, Volts must match. in other words the fuse breaker must be rated to handle what you are putting through it, close does not cut it.

highdesertranger
 
CosmickGold said:
Since fuses are "use once and throw away"...

If you've wired things correctly, fuses are a "use one forever" item.
 
This^

I replaced the fuse with a circuit breaker for my onboard battery charger. This way I can plug the shore power into my inverter without it pulling from my batteries to charge my batteries. It's basically a switch for me.
 
For any circuit under about 30 amps I always use fuses. They are probably 100% reliable and act so quickly that shorted wires wont burn up or melt and start a fire.

Fuses are cheap, and good insurance against component failures or shorts in the wiring.

For large loads, especially for loads that have a heavy starting surge (like 500 watt and above inverters) I use a circuit breaker for the wiring in addition to the fuse that is usually on (or in) the item itself.

Also, I install marine style battery terminal fuses at the battery, for a last line of protection in the event of a major failure, like an accident, or fire in the vehicle.
 
Fuses are simple, breakers are complicated.  Failure means it doesn't open the circuit when that is needed.   Less complicated makes fuses less likely to fail to open when necessary.

Federal Pacific Electric, FPE, is no more.  They made a bunch of circuit breakers that had a propensity to not trip.  The company was sued, sales vanished, gone.  It has happened.  It is not just a thought experiment.  To replace an FPE breaker box and breakers in a house runs about $1000.  

Fuses, on the other hand, are just a thin piece of wire.  A batch can have a few tested by over current then every fuse can be tested by measuring resistance.  There are no switch contacts that can fail to open.  There is no mechanism to detect current coupled to the switch to make it open.  It's just a thin wire.  The thinnest wire in the whole circuit.  

Breakers cost dollars, fuses cost pennies.  

DC breakers generally have more voltage drop than fuses.  

If a circuit is overloaded, trips often, and there is a breaker that is easy to reset, human nature will leave well enough alone and just keep on resetting the breaker.  Repeated blown fuses will be more likely to be investigated and the problem corrected.  Too many appliances might be split into two circuits or the chafed wire that intermittently shorts will be repaired.  

With a proper design and installation both fuses and breakers go their entire lifetime untested.  

Can you make a case in favor of breakers for over current protection? 

You can use breakers as switches but every time you open the circuit while there is current there is a little arc.  After enough arcs the contacts weld together.  When you combine your switching with over current protection you run the risk of the contacts becoming welded and then not having over current protection.  

If the pennies price of a fuse is too much, do what the car companies do.  The fat wire from the battery to the alternator has a fusible link.  That's a piece of wire that is a smaller size and a lower melting point than the rest of the wire.  If an alternator shorts the battery will blow the link rather than ignite the entire harness. 

If you set up a system with a bunch of different wire sizes and a bunch of different fuse ratings someone will get confused and put a 30 amp fuse in the socket for a 5 amp circuit.  Breakers just get reset avoiding that confusion.  It would work equally well to use AWG #10 wire for all loads with 30 amp fuses everywhere.  That's what I have.  I use an 85 amp maxifuse at the battery and 30 amp regular size fuses. 

Aside from the general breaker / fuse question, strictly with automotive parts, there is a gotcha.  The pins on a breaker are bigger than the pins on a fuse.  After putting a breaker in a fuse box a fuse will be loose.  I ruined one spot in a 6 position $9 fuse box.  A whole new fuse box was much cheaper than an FPE breaker box.  I saw that as $9 tuition at the school of experience.
 
A fuse can just have a penny stuck in its socket. Haha. JK of course. But I did grow up in a house without circuit breakers. We had fuses. Both the round screw in type AND the cylindrical type. Fuses seem like a PITA (pain in the donkey)

It does seem like a well designed system would never trip a fuse or breaker. But breakers in my experience are more like oh geez. Just flip the switch and return power. Fuses are more like why did this happen? Is there a problem? This is costing me money. Let's figure out why this happened. And fix it.

My 2 cents.
 
from a simple stand point, fuses are certainly one and done. while circuit breakers can be reset. some are designed and rated to be used as a switch/disconnect as well. fuses can work as a disconnect also, just pull the fuse.

circuit breakers are mechanical devices, moving parts. some are better than others, but ultimately, anything with moving parts can fail. i have had quiet a few amazon dc circuit breakers fail. they failed to stay connected at anywhere close to their rating. replaced with fuses and good to go.

each breaker and fuse type, has different characteristics. like this info on a classic automotive blade fuse.
 
you have to check this for each type and decide if that works in your application.

 in my experience, in general, good quality fuses will handle more surge than the same amp rated breaker.  you may be able to find breakers that have a higher surge rating. where this comes into play is with motor starting loads. you size your wire for the rated current of the motor and then select a fuse based on the wire size to protect the wire. the start up surge is much higher than the constant load and can pop or break the fuse or breaker if there is not sufficient surge capability

a place were breakers really come in handy is if you have a couple outlets wired to one fuse. just like house wiring you may occasionally have too much plugged into one circuit. in those cases, nice to have a  breaker instead of having to replace a fuse.

you can also find auto resetting breakers. they reconnect after so many minutes. if the over load has been removed then you are right back in business. comes in handy in some applications
 
for me, it seams breakers tend to have more resistance across than same rated fuse, and over time the resistance goes up as the contacts arc from being disconnected under load. i use fuses in places i want the lowest resistance and most reliability.
 
Also remember to use the correct type of circuit breaker or fuse. Many common circuit breakers are inverse time trip, which means the breaker will trip faster if the overcurrent condition is larger. A 15 amp circuit breaker may stay in the closed position a long time with 16 or 17 amps on it. Also fuses have many different opening curves and reaction times. Slow blow, fast blow, time delay etc. Both fuses and circuit breakers have their place and are commonly installed in new construction.
 
I Thank each of you for all the intelligent advice.  I'm listening and taking it seriously.

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=x-small]Yesterday,  [/size][/font]my 10A breaker[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=x-small] arrived from Amazon.  I got it out and pressed the little green test button, and it stayed down! No way to get it to come back up, so no way to reset the breaker.  And, it was not made to come apart.  (Those look like four rivets in the top.)  I would have believed something that can save -- or cost -- lives, would be made to absolute perfection.  Obviously I was wrong!  (And guess where it was made?  [/size][/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=x-small]China![/size][/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=x-small])[/size][/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=x-small]So I filled out the Amazon "defective-send-replacement" page, which didn't ask for an address since they already had it.  But although the original came to me in TEXAS, they sent the replacement to my friend in VERMONT. (He's in my mail-to list, but sending a replacement to a different address than the original is ridiculous, especially when the second address is several states away.)  From now on, I'll simply return any bad item for a refund, and then order it again, with no connection to the first order so that I can select the [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=x-small]correct[/size][/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=x-small] address again.[/size][/font][/size]
 
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Also, I [/font]watched this video[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] today, which has a lot of good info about fixing solar-panel wiring.  This guy points out that he ordered the plug for his solar connector from one company and the socket from another.  The two should have been a perfect match, but being from different companies, they weren't and started arcing inside, heating up so much it melted the plastic of the connection and could have started a fire!  My lesson there is to buy [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]all[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] parts from the [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]same[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] company from now on![/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]So, a little freaked out by all this, I'm going to forget about the circuit breakers, and replace them with a 40A fuse and a 10A fuse from Renogy, the same company who made my solar panels and charger the fuses are for.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Again, thanks guys![/font]
 
I am not an expert on the subject but I have friends who know considerable about it. The fuse should be located very close to the power source. In that case it means putting it up top as part of the wiring that is under your panel. If you were installing a circuit breaker it would not all that close by to the source of the power. So for solar panels on the roof based on that advice then a fuse is the way to go. Just go to a reliable solar panel company and read their installation instructions and follow them. They want their products to be reliable for you, the want the installation to work properly. They want to have a good reputation and have lots of customers who are happy and give them word of mouth recommendations. Getting returns and bad reviews is what they want to avoid. They want their customers to get the installation done correctly which is why they show it to you on their website and why they have customer service people who will talk to you on the phone if you are confused or have a question such as is a fuse or a circuit breaker better.
 
And one other comment regarding fuses.
Stick to well know Companies like Littelfuse or Bussmann. Those 20 or 50 packs of different amp/colored fuses for cheap are junk. All the time and money put into a project does not deserve to go up in smoke caused by questionable components. When it comes to electricity, mobile or stationary, don't cheap out on the pieces.

just my 2¢
 
Cosmic Gold you didn't read my post?

"beware of cheap junk circuit breakers this is especially true of the stuff sold to the car stereo crowd"

see the way the wire mounts in that breaker you linked to. stay away from those pinch type connections, they come loose. they are very common on cheap junk car audio stuff.

also like Matlock said,

"Stick to well know Companies like Littelfuse or Bussmann"

I would add Blue Sea to that list.

highdesertranger
 
What a hassle.

Why not drive to the nearest Autozone and buy a good quality Bussman circuit breaker? If they dont have the one you need in stock they can order it for you.

It might cost $15 or $20 but worth every penny in quality. 

Amazon. Phooey.
 
highdesertranger said:
Cosmic Gold you didn't read my post?
"beware of cheap junk circuit breakers this is especially true of the stuff sold to the car stereo crowd"
....
Oh, but I did read your post.  The cheap breaker I show in the URL above was ordered BEFORE I created this thread for advice.
But now, I am taking your words very seriously, and will get the fuses locally -- Bussman hopefully -- as you and others have advised.

And yes, I am truly grateful for everyone's advice; advice which I am now following!
 
I had a few of those cheap circuit breakers from Amazon on my system, to include a 150A circuit breaker for my main battery to busbar. Well the 150 amp breaker would trip at 40 Amps, dangerously disconnecting my battery from the solar controller (which often is running at 60 amps into my battery bank) . After it tripped a couple of times scaring me that it would fry my system I now use a simple 150 amp fuse, and it just works well. It is permanent unless I screw something up.
 
Since the cardinal-rule is to hook the Battery(ies) to the Controller first then hook the Solar Panel(s) to the Controller, what might happen to the Controller if the Battery(ies) fuse/breaker pops ?
 
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