Freezer to fridge conversion

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
the only time I really notice my Engels is when they are almost empty and have a couple cans or glass jars in them. then the vibration rattles the cans/jars and you really hear them. other than that they don't bother me, but not a lot of noise bothers me so I might not be a good example. highdesertranger
 
Yeah, I am having issues with my right ear right now, it is all plugged up due to surfer's ear and a slight infection. When the neighbor's kids started screaming like they had bamboo shoots hammered under their fingernails early this morning, I rolled onto my left side and the world went blessedly silent.

My Sawafuji powered Norcold would start harmonics, and silverware bouncing around in my Sink. I'd not tried the balsa to absorb vibration, but as my vibrations suppression methods evolved over the years, I was able to pull and push on my front loading Norcold and move it around 1/4 inch in any direction as it was basically isolated on foam rubber on each plane. Serious improvement, but still annoying at times.
 
I guess that I got lucky, my 8 year old Engel mt-35 makes barely any noise at all.
 
mine doesn't make much noise either like I stated above it's the vibration when it's almost empty rattles things inside. highdesertranger
 
I can't really say if I have good or bad hearing, I think just average, but he noise of my Whynter fridge doesn't bother me at all.
Bob
 
That is one nice thing about the propane fridges. Aside from a few muffled clicks when it lights, you would never know it was running.
 
Just in case anyone  is still considering a chest freezer.  Five freezers under 5 cu. ft. 
The kwh / year came from the energy star guide for each freezer.

815JdbK%2Bn-L.SX367_SY500_.jpg


Danby  4.3  Cu. Ft. 
121.8 Liters
Model # DUFM043A1WDD
kwh / year  260
kwh/day     0.712
Dimensions 24.5 x 23.6 x 36.1
Weight lbs.   83.4
Cost             $362 

Igloo 3.5 cu. ft. 
99.1 Liters
Model #        FRF434
kwh / year     212
kwh/day        0.581
Dimensions   22.5 x 23.5 x 34.75
Weight lbs.   65.5
Cost             $159 

Danby 3.8 Cu. Ft. 
107.6 Liters
Model #       DCF038A1WDB1
kwh / year    197
kwh/day        0.540
Dimensions   22.2 x 25 x 33.1 
Weight lbs.   69.5
Cost             $199 

midea WHS-129C1 3.5 cu. ft. 
99.1 Liters
Model #       WHS-129C1
kwh / year    193
kwh/day        0.529
Dimensions   21.7 x 33.5 x 22.2
Weight lbs.   59.5
Cost             $295 

Avanti Energy Star 3.5 Cu. Ft. 
99.1 Liters
Model #       CF10006WE
kwh / year    173
kwh/day        0.474
Dimensions   24.8 x 21.2 x 33
Weight lbs.   60
Cost             $262 

Midea WHS-79C1  2.1 Cu. Ft. 
59.0 Liters
Model #       WHS-79C1
kwh / year    167
kwh/day        0.458
Dimensions   21.1 x 19.6 x 33.8
Weight lbs.   59.5
Cost             $175 

Avanti Energy Star 2.1 Cu. Ft. 
59.0 Liters
Model #       CF6216E
kwh / year    152
kwh/day        0.416
Dimensions   24.8 x 17 x 33
Weight lbs.   50
Cost             $219
 
Those are designed to sit in a stationary place and not move around.  Not to operate in a moving vehicle.

Most of them are also large and too bulky for a van. A lot of energy will be wasted converting from 120V to 12V.
 
you can't compare those energy star labels for mobile use. they come by those numbers in a lab with a controlled environment like you would encounter in a house. when I tried to use a 120v refer it sucked double the power the label stated. you have to add 10-20% right off because of the inefficiencies of the invertor. highdesertranger
 
Yeah, i wonder about the requirements under which energystar labels can be legally printed and displayed. Perhaps there are huge legal loopholes the marketing team can use to massage the numbers in an attempt to massage their bottom line further

Perhaps it is like the EPA highway MPG rating on some new vehicles which seems to be established at 45mph with a 20mph tailwind and on gasoline, not gasohol.

I'd not buy any fridge or freezer unless the condenser was visible and had adequate ventilation. Some of them seem to try and hide it behind the Skin and removing the heat from it becomes a much larger task.

I remember seeing A danfoss compressor's condenser for the first time on a Tundra fridge on a Boat, after being familiar with my Norcold's large passive condenser. A finned radiator style condenser with a 120mm computer fan attached seemed so much more efficient, and compact. And when the compressor cycled on I was amazed at how quiet it was compared to the Sawafuji compressor of my Norcold.

I added another low cfm low amp draw 120mm fan on the circuit to help evacuate the hot air behind this fridge on this boat when the compressor cycled on and the report was that a lesser thermostat setting was required after that, or things in the fridge, began to freeze.

A danfoss compressor controller can handle powering 0.5 amps of fans, and double that for 2 seconds on initial start up. The 120MM fan my Vitrifrigo came with was ~72cfm and 0.12amps and pulled air through the condenser. I replaced it with a Noctua NF-f12 at~ 53cfm for 0.05amp consumption and mounted it to push air through the condenser. Noise decreased, amp draw decreased by 0.07a, performance increased with shorter run times when the compressor did cycle on.

I added a 0.03amp 40MMx15mm Sunon Maglev fan to my fridge interior too, that takes 12v from the LED light, and runs 24/7. Helps keep much more even internal temps, cool down items placed within faster, and allows a 2.2 of 7 setting to maintain 33.5f or less, compared to 4 of 7 without it. It does not make the fridge use less battery power however.

I've no idea how accessible the danfoss compressor controller is on a chest style fridge. I did not take any tools to my friend's ARB when I had it for a few weeks to see.

I did blow out a rather astounding amount of dust from his fridge. My own fridge condenser gets dusty far quicker than expected. I've put an air filter on the intake to slow down the accumulation.

The air filter was inspired when I saw this:
FridgeDust_zps531f5e52.jpg


Keep in mind a fridge does not make force things cool, it removes heat from the box and items placed within that box. This heat has to go somewhere, and its ease of removal directly relates to efficiency of the process.

So a 12v compressor fridge is built with efficiency in mind, but the process can still be improved upon with more insulation and better condenser venting.
 
GotSmart said:
Those are designed to sit in a stationary place and not move around.  Not to operate in a moving vehicle.

Most of them are also large and too bulky for a van.  A lot of energy will be wasted converting from 120V to 12V.

I drove trucks for a while, i know how these are moved and loaded.  I would not go four wheeling with one but would not hesitate to put one in a travel trailer or cargo trailer.

The two 59 liter units have a smaller foot print than the WHYNTER or  ENGEL.
The 106 liter Dometic measures 34 x 24.5 x 22.5 inches  $797
The 107.6 liter Danby measures  22.2 x 25 x 33.1 inches  $199 
Smaller foot print but taller.

If someone needed a larger size like 145 liter, 
A Haier 5.0-cu ft Freezer measures 28.35"L x 21.65"W x 33.27"H

HDR - I included the energy rating for comparison between units.  Since these would be run at refrigerator temps the energy use would be lower than listed.  With added insulation that could be further reduced.  Would running one modified chest freezer be more energy efficient than using two smaller 12 volt units.

Sternwake in post #8 said,
"[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If one already has a 120vac chest freezer, and the ability to modify the thermostat, and an inverter which can handle the rather large start up surge, then it makes sense to go this route, in my opinion." [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Unless you already own the freezer, large inverter, adequate battery capacity and solar recharging capacity to power an AC fridge/freezer, then you will not save any money by going this route, over a 12v compressor fridge/freezer, that was built with minimal electrical consumption in mind in the first place."[/font][/font]

Using a controller like Johnson Controls A19AAT-2C Freezer Temperature Controller $57.95,  no alteration to the freezer would be required.

As a chest freezer cost about 1/4 as much as a comparable 12v unit it may be worth some consideration.
 
VJG1977 said:
Using a controller like Johnson Controls A19AAT-2C Freezer Temperature Controller $57.95,  no alteration to the freezer would be required.

As a chest freezer cost about 1/4 as much as a comparable 12v unit it may be worth some consideration.

I am extremely curious how these smallest units would preform.   Looking at the power usage of the sub $600 12vdc units they are pretty high!   Even higher or right in line with the 115vac + efficiency loss in conversion + standby draw of Inverter + draw of the thermostat.   I will be needing the cheapest price and will probably sell the vehicle after our 5-7 month trip (but don't want the hassle of ice box).   Having a hard time deciding because no one has done it with the newest energy start chest freezer and thermostat...
 
Has this already been posted? 

A couple have posted there experiences with this experiment.
 
lblt, if you notice in the original post they were comparing to a Peltier cooler. Peltier coolers are very inefficient. so then they take this 120v freezer and have to buy a bunch of gizmos to make it work and be efficient. all those gizmo are future failure points. I really don't see the advantage of doing all this over just using a 12v refer. highdesertranger
 
lblt said:
Has this already been posted? 

A couple have posted there experiences with this experiment.


This is exactly what I was hoping to do!   Just didn't have the relay knowledge to understand how to practicality.   It's a good idea as it controls the large Inverter from running 24/7.   I wonder if the inverters life (and fridge life) will be diminished from the relay cutting power... 
Thanks for this!   I will continue searching out for more info on this subject!   Don't really know what reddit is or how to use it yet 
Erik
 
highdesertranger said:
lblt,  if you notice in the original post they were comparing to a Peltier cooler.  Peltier coolers are very inefficient.  so then they take this 120v freezer and have to buy a bunch of gizmos to make it work and be efficient.  all those gizmo are future failure points.  I really don't see the advantage of doing all this over just using a 12v refer.  highdesertranger
You'd be surprised what people would do to save a few hundred bucks :)   personally I'm thinking short term on my build as after my 6 month trip I'll need to sell the rig to buy a daily driver.   So I don't want to put in too much that I won't get out of it.   But you're right about it being pretty complicated...  I'm still not sold but this is good info to have going forward.   
Have there been many advancements in efficiency on the 12v compressor side of things recently?   I know that in 2015 some new energy star 120vac devices came out for instance that dropped energy use by like 15%...
 
highdesertranger said:
lblt,  if you notice in the original post they were comparing to a Peltier cooler.  Peltier coolers are very inefficient.  so then they take this 120v freezer and have to buy a bunch of gizmos to make it work and be efficient.  all those gizmo are future failure points.  I really don't see the advantage of doing all this over just using a 12v refer.  highdesertranger

I agree that this scheme adds points of failure, but unless they are outright lying about their numbers I can see it being a solution for some. If you have the money and don't wan't the fuss then of course a 12v refrigerator is the standard way to go.
 
I have told this story many times but will tell it once more. I too wanted to save money, I needed to get off ice it was killing me I am often a long way from ice so between the price of ice and the trips to go buy it was killing me. so first I tried an RV propane refer. it worked ok but now instead of needing to go to town for ice I needed to go for propane. so I tried one of those peltier coolers waste of money and it sucked power. then I tried a dorm refer, to keep stuff cold I had to turn it way up, it to was an energy hog. no were near what the label said. I attributed this to the fact that it wasn't in a controlled environment like an apartment or a dorm room. so finally in 2010 I said screw it and bought a 12v Engel. boy what a world of difference, to this day I wish I would have bought the Engel in the first place. I would be dollars ahead. the next year I bought another, those 2 Engels use less power then the dorm fridge. I will buy one more to use as a dedicated freezer. the lessen from this story is, sometimes trying to save a buck costs you more in the long run. highdesertranger
 
highdesertranger said:
I have told this story many times but will tell it once more.  I too wanted to save money,  I needed to get off ice it was killing me I am often a long way from ice so between the price of ice and the trips to go buy it was killing me.  so first I tried an RV propane refer.  it worked ok but now instead of needing to go to town for ice I needed to go for propane.  so I tried one of those peltier coolers waste of money and it sucked power.  then I tried a dorm refer,  to keep stuff cold I had to turn it way up,  it to was an energy hog.  no were near what the label said.  I attributed this to the fact that it wasn't in a controlled environment like an apartment or a dorm room.  so finally in 2010 I said screw it and bought a 12v Engel.  boy what a world of difference,  to this day I wish I would have bought the Engel in the first place.  I would be dollars ahead.  the next year I bought another,  those 2 Engels use less power then the dorm fridge.  I will buy one more to use as a dedicated freezer.  the lessen from this story is,  sometimes trying to save a buck costs you more in the long run.  highdesertranger

I 100% agree. The old adage "Buy nice or buy twice" could have been explicitly written for 12V fridge/freezers.
 
highdesertranger said:
I have told this story many times but will tell it once more.  I too wanted to save money,  I needed to get off ice it was killing me I am often a long way from ice so between the price of ice and the trips to go buy it was killing me.  so first I tried an RV propane refer.  it worked ok but now instead of needing to go to town for ice I needed to go for propane.  so I tried one of those peltier coolers waste of money and it sucked power.  then I tried a dorm refer,  to keep stuff cold I had to turn it way up,  it to was an energy hog.  no were near what the label said.  I attributed this to the fact that it wasn't in a controlled environment like an apartment or a dorm room.  so finally in 2010 I said screw it and bought a 12v Engel.  boy what a world of difference,  to this day I wish I would have bought the Engel in the first place.  I would be dollars ahead.  the next year I bought another,  those 2 Engels use less power then the dorm fridge.  I will buy one more to use as a dedicated freezer.  the lessen from this story is,  sometimes trying to save a buck costs you more in the long run.  highdesertranger

That isn't bad advice. Some people just have different priorities though. Some like to tinker and that is enough justification in itself
 
Top