Free Lithium Batteries From Used Laptops

[Boyntonstu]

Correct, unless they go out of balance and one or more cells gets overcharged...   then they turn into flame throwers. 
Charging Lead Acid batteries is a lot safer than Lithium. A chemical fire that doesn't require oxygen to keep growing is a very scary sight.

I'll just leave this link here in case it saves a life one day:     https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87975




100% correct.

I think you have the right mindset.  No one here, including you, is trying to argue the point that these things are totally safe. There have certainly been lead acid fires, and lithium batteries in consumer products like cellphones, laptops, and e-cigs have also caught fire / burst over the years. Plenty of evidence out there. 

Just like a owning a firearm, or a riding a motorcycle, or or flying a small aircraft, as long as you own the responsibility and respect the activity, there should be a reasonable margin of safety.   By that.. I mean, storing the battery outside of the home, in a battery bunker or metal enclosure like an ammo can in a metal trash can, and always charge the battery outside, in a location that suitable to build a fire.    Do that, and you (and your neighbors) should be fine.

Stay balanced, have some fun, and keep us posted on how it goes.

I'd like to know how many 18650's are needed to power a nice rv solar setup...  in theory, I believe it should only require 1/3 of the AH to have the same usable capacity as lead acid. Maybe something like 12v 500ah..  what's that, like 684 cells

"The short version, my cheap ass shipped illegally 18650 48v 20 ah battery from K battery (alibabba) caught fire in my garage, while charging."

That statement says a lot.

Some folks use 110 Ahr batteries.'

At 2 Ahr per cell x 55 cells for 110 Ahr x 3  to place three in series for 12 V I calculate that 165 18650 cells are required.

All for free!

 

[itsmeagain]

"The short version, my cheap ass shipped illegally 18650 48v 20 ah battery from K battery (alibabba) caught fire in my garage, while charging."

That statement says a lot.

I'd put it on par with the risk level for making a pack out of re-purposed laptop batteries with unknown abuse history.

 

[Boyntonstu]

I'd put it on par with the risk level for making a pack out of re-purposed laptop batteries with unknown abuse history.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Based on my research of the many people who have recycled high quality laptop batteries, I have not seen any data showing fires.

I would put the risk level of used laptop batteries much lower than Chinese copies of 18650's.

A few pictures are worth a few thousand words:

[video=youtube]

 

[itsmeagain]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I would put the risk level of used laptop batteries much lower than Chinese copies of 18650's.[/font]

Although I agree he did buy cheap Chinese 18650's, I do not agree that they were fakes made from impostor materials like the video you posted.

We've all see "fake 18650's" with a hidden lipo sleeve or other kinds of batteries crammed in the guts..  that wasn't the case with Dogman. He's one of the biggest mods of the most respected e-bike community since the birth of e-biking,  he knows his stuff inside and out.   Those were legit 18650's.

Just because he wrote that they were "illegally shipped" and "cheap" does not mean they were "copies" or fakes. 

Not trying to piss on your fire..  I encourage your experimentation..  but it's not smart to try and convince yourself that legit 18650's cannot catch fire when stored or charged improperly.

 

[Boyntonstu]

Although I agree he did buy cheap Chinese 18650's, I do not agree that they were fakes made from impostor materials like the video you posted.

We've all see "fake 18650's" with a hidden lipo sleeve or other kinds of batteries crammed in the guts..  that wasn't the case with Dogman. He's one of the biggest mods of the most respected e-bike community since the birth of e-biking,  he knows his stuff inside and out.   Those were legit 18650's.

Just because he wrote that they were "illegally shipped" and "cheap" does not mean they were "copies" or fakes. 

Not trying to piss on your fire..  I encourage your experimentation..  but it's not smart to try and convince yourself that legit 18650's cannot catch fire when stored or charged improperly.

I agree with your post.  I wanted to caution readers not to be convinced by Ebay ads.

BTW I do not believe in balance charging and here is why:

[video=youtube]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIbHLacozFo[/video]

I use a constant voltage charger at very low current.

I can use my lab PS to charge a 4.0 V  group of cells.

BTW I have way over 4,000 miles on my E-bike and hundreds of charge cycles and I have never balanced.

I am very gentle with them because I charge to 4.0 V and discharge to 3.8 V.

This narrow Voltage range allows me to bike 12.5 miles at about 20 MPH with pedal assist.

Wonderfully reliable. I ride almost every day.

 

[itsmeagain]

Based on my research of the many people who have recycled high quality laptop batteries, I have not seen any data showing fires.

Define high quality?  How many of those laptops do you think were dropped down a flight of stairs?  or left in a trunk of a car over summer break at college? The brand name will tell you nothing about abuse history.

 

[itsmeagain]

I agree with your post.  I wanted to caution readers not to be convinced by Ebay ads.

Very good point.

I understand your intention there and I agree 100%.  I'm sure there will be more than a few readers who stumble on this thread that might get the idea to get the cheapest cells possible..  and it was good that you pointed out that odds are, you'll get a roman candle crammed into an 18650 shell.

+1

 

[Boyntonstu]

Define high quality?  How many of those laptops do you think were dropped down a flight of stairs?  or left in a trunk of a car over summer break at college? The brand name will tell you nothing about abuse history.

I have the laptop battery in my hand.
Do I see any "bruises" on the plastic.
I cut it open and inspect.
Whose batteries are they?
Panasonic or Sanyo mainly.
One way to detect phonies is to weigh them.
OK I measure and sort depending on Voltage.
I can also measure the internal resistance.
I can charge 36 18650 cells in parallel and see the results.
More culling.
Their free, so why take chances? Cull.

After a fairly steep learning curve I learned how to solder them with confidence.

I assemble my battery and at that point use them as gently as possible.

A bike battery is much more difficult to fire-proof than in a van.

A box with the Lithium batteries encased in 3M™ Fire Barrier Packing Material PM4  should make them quite safe for 20 bucks a roll.  

https://www.zoro.com/3m-fire-barrie...H_uKBotEKLMvfJoLznSyPFq4CGQqDeFBoCYUIQAvD_BwE

A water fire extinguisher will put out a Lithium runaway fire.

[video=youtube]

A pressurized water supply and a sprinkler head should do the job quite well.

Put the batteries into a box and place the sprinkler head in the top.

Smokey, we can prevent forest fires!

 

[Boyntonstu]

[video=youtube]

He shows how to harvest cells from a laptop battery.

 

[jonyjoe303]

building 18650 packs is not for people who don't know there way around electricity. Same with working with lead acid batteries, if you don't know how to wire a system up, you will create hazards. The best safety is to always be around when you are charging your lithium. If its going to catch on fire it will be while charging it or while your draining it. I worry more about my lead acid exploding and blinding me, even though I know that would be rare.

The performance of lithium is just too good to ever go back to lead acid. After using lifepo4 cells (12.8 4s pack), I see no major improvement as far as li-ion (11.1 volt 3s) batterys. With lifepo4 the voltage always reads 13.1 volts then when near empty it drops quickly, so you never know how much capacity you have. With li-ion the voltage drops as the capacity drops, you always know what you got left. If you can get the 18650 batteries free or cheap, why not. Myself I was moving away from li-ion to lifepo4, but this past week I got 150 more 18650 cells to go with the other 300 cells I already got. 

Both chemistries require balance chargers, lifepo4 when hooked up to mppt controller even when the absorb voltage is 15 volts/ float voltage 14.6 charges at a leisurely 6 amps, it never gets a proper charge. The li-ion wll charge quickly (15 amps) to 12 volts then trip the bms. neither battery will get fully charge without a balance charger. 

All the lithium powerpacks you see on amazon, they all use laptop batteries. I looked around and didnt see any that use lifepo4. li-ion batteries are lighter than the lifepo4. My 110 ah lifepo4 (80 cells) batterypack weighs 30 pounds, my 94 ah li-ion (168 cell) battery pack weighs 20 pounds. The 94 ah could have easily been 110 ah if I had use higher capacity cells.  

To me the only drawback with lithium is there is no easy way to charge with solar.