Ford E350 spark plugs

[TooManyDogs]

Hi all!

So I test drove a high top 2004 Ford 350 today and REALLY liked the high top. The issue is I've heard about the infamous 2 piece extended plugs that break off and get stuck in these 5.4 Triton V8s. So as part of the negotiations, I got them to agree to change out the spark plugs. I supply the plugs.

I went to Oreilly Auto and the plugs listed for the van was regular length, not the extended ones. The F150 truck 5.4 V8 required the extended plugs.

Did I worry for nothing? Which plugs do I use? The ones I read about or what O'Reilly's computer shows?

Thanks for your help!

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[highdesertranger]

the 2 piece is only half the plug problem. the other problem was lack of threads in the aluminum head. highdesertranger

 

[TooManyDogs]

the 2 piece is only half the plug problem. the other problem was lack of threads in the aluminum head. highdesertranger

Ugh. I thought that was a problem from earlier, before the breakage problem. Must.research.more. Thanks.

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[TooManyDogs]

My question is still why would the 5.4 V8 Triton engine require two different kinds of spark plugs. Aren't they the same engine?

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[frater secessus]

Maybe the non-extended ones are for the thinner head.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The two valve heads had the one piece plug.  The three valve heads had the two piece plugs.  The three valve head engines (which came out around 04 or 05) were only used in the F series pickups.  The E series vans continued to use the two valve heads.  Why?  Beats the Hell out of me . . .

 

[TooManyDogs]

The two valve heads had the one piece plug.  The three valve heads had the two piece plugs.  The three valve head engines (which came out around 04 or 05) were only used in the F series pickups.  The E series vans continued to use the two valve heads.  Why?  Beats the Hell out of me . . .

Phew! So they should be less likely to break off but it appears they might still pop out? Do you know if the loosening/popping off issue is specific to the number of heads too?

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[Optimistic Paranoid]

Phew! So they should be less likely to break off but it appears they might still pop out? Do you know if the loosening/popping off issue is specific to the number of heads too?

AFAIK, the two valve head is still being used in Econoline's to this day.  Ford has, I believe, discontinued the actual vans but still makes the cut away chassis's for the box truck builders, U-Haul, Penske, etc.  According to info I got from Wikipedia, the plug stripping problem stopped in the 08 model year.

The three valve head was introduced to pick ups in 04, so presumably any earlier pickups would have also had the two valve heads.

Here's the info from Wikipedia's article on Ford Modular Engines:

Spark Plug Issues
2-valve 4.6 L, 5.4 L, and 6.8 L engines found in many 1997-2008 Ford,Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles may have aluminum cylinder heads with threads for spark plugs that are stripped, missing, or otherwise insufficiently bored out. Ford acknowledges this issue in TSB 07-21-2 as well as earlier TSBs. Ford's TSB does not state that this issue is caused by owner neglect. Ford's only authorized repair procedure for out-of-warranty vehicles is to use the LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum insert and tool kit. For vehicles under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, Ford will only cover the replacement of the entire cylinder head; however, the Ford recommended spark plug service interval extends beyond the duration of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
 
3-valve 5.4 L and 6.8 L engines built before 10/9/07 and 3-valve 4.6 Ls built before 11/30/07 found in many 2004–2008 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury
vehicles have an issue with difficult-to-remove spark plugs, which can cause part of the spark plug to become seized in the cylinder head. The
source of the problem is a unique plug design that uses a 2-piece shell, which often separates, leaving the lower portion of the spark plug stuck
deep in the engine's cylinder head. The 2-piece OE spark plug design is intrinsically flawed, thus making it susceptible to this problem. Ford
acknowledges this issue in TSB 08-7-6 as well as earlier TSBs. Ford's TSB does not state that this issue is caused by owner neglect. The TSB
provides a special procedure for spark plug removal on these engines.

For situations in which the spark plug has partially broken off in the cylinder head, Ford distributes multiple special tools for removing the seized portion of the plug. Their TSB explains the multiple procedures required for handling the different cases/situations that occur when parts of plugs are seized in these engines. This repair is covered for vehicles under warranty; however, the Ford recommended spark plug service interval extends beyond the duration of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

 

[TravelDerby]

I own a 2004 E-350 and actually just changed the plugs last week (The second time doing so since I purchased it used). My suggestion would be to insist that you get to see the old plugs as there is no no easy way of knowing if the seller actually changes the plugs or not. The plugs are absolutely buried on these motors and you can't see them at all. They are under the fuel rail, under the coils packs and then a solid 4" into the heads. You can't even touch them with your finger tip.

The keys to removing these plugs are to do it regularly (Every 50k miles or so), make sure the engine is hot, use compressed to clean out the holes and liberally apply spray oil to each before removal. I've yet to have any issues, but due to the tight quarters it would be a real bear to repair or remove a broken plugs from one of these engines.

 

[B and C]

When I change spark plugs in any aluminum head, I use anti-seize lubricant when the plugs are installed.  Prevents galling of the aluminum threads when they are removed the next time.  [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Permatex - Anti-Seize Lubricant[/font]   

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The keys to removing these plugs are to do it regularly (Every 50k miles or so)

You're absolutely right about that.  The problem is, the owner's manual says they only need to be changed every 100k miles, and most people are silly enough to think the factory actually knows what it's talking about.

If you're lucky enough to have it done around 99k, and a plug breaks, Ford replaces the head with a new one, under warranty.  If you waited until 101k and a plug breaks, Ford says "tough shit, it's your problem".

 

[introverting]

I own a 2004 E-350 and actually just changed the plugs last week (The second time doing so since I purchased it used).  My suggestion would be to insist that you get to see the old plugs as there is no no easy way of knowing if the seller actually changes the plugs or not. The plugs are absolutely buried on these motors and you can't see them at all. They are under the fuel rail, under the coils packs and then a solid 4" into the heads.  You can't even touch them with your finger tip.  

 The keys to removing these plugs are to do it regularly (Every 50k miles or so), make sure the engine is hot, use compressed to clean out the holes and liberally apply spray oil to each before removal.  I've yet to have any issues, but due to the tight quarters it would be a real bear to repair or remove a broken plugs from one of these engines.

Another tip I've gathered from researching this issue is to torque the spark plugs properly.  Also, supposedly there's a certain date when the issue was supposedly resolved.  Unfortunately, I don't have the link that specifies that date and I don't remember what it was.  I've also read that this issue is overblown if you break it down to percentages, but that's little comfort if you happen to fall under the percentage that experiences the issue.