fireproof safe for van

[decodancer]

Does anyone have a safe in their van? I would like to mount one either in the wall behind the paneling or maybe under a seat. I've had one vehicle burn to a crisp so fireproof is a must. Just large enough for birth certificate, title, credit cards I don't want to use and maybe some cash.

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

Mayne store originals offsite if at all possible. I left mine in a safe at my moms.

 

[sephson]

There are a number of different options on safes. If it needs to bolt down, I think your best option would be a wall safe, maybe built into the back of a cabinet. Options here seem to be somewhat limited, at least for a fire rated safe that's small enough to mount in a van. The lightest I found was 56 lbs. and had a 30 minute fire rating at 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit and costs $330. Other safes had a 1 hour fire rating at 1,500 degrees, but cost $500 to $600 and weighed 150+ lbs.

Another alternative for you would be a fire resistant chest, essentially a lockable brief case that is both fire and water proof. You can get them with up to a 1 hour fire rating and they are considerably lighter than a wall safe with the same fire rating. The trade off is that they're portable. You can't bolt them down.

Here are a few possible sources for you:

http://www.buyasafe.com/fire-safes.html

http://www.sentrysafe.com/Series/89/Small_Capacity_Fire-Safes

http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/fireproof-safes

http://www.target.com/c/safes-home-safety-security-improvement/-/N-5xtsm

A quick Google search for "small fireproof safes" will yield a number of additional results.

 

[decodancer]

Thanks for the links. I did a little more research and found that I could glue the small safe to the floor using a silicone based glue. I want to put it under my front seat inside the seat base so that might work. I'm amazed that they don't put predrilled holes in the bottom of small fireproof chests so a thief doesn't just walk off with it. I wonder if I could drill holes myself, I can't imagine it would make that much different in a fire.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

I don't the answer, but here's a short read for you...
http://www.waltersforensic.com/articles/fire_investigation/vol3-no1.htm

 

[sephson]

Just remember that any metal bolts or screws you use will transfer heat from a burning van inside the the case, so you may find your important documents ignited by the hot bolts if there's a fire. Also, water infiltration from the fire hoses could be an issue if you drill mounting holes in the case. Gluing the case to the floor may be a better option. I wonder if there would be any way to permanently strap it down without compromising the fire rating or water resistance.

 

[mockturtle]

A burning vehicle with fuel on board is an inferno that would likely destroy your safe and its contents.

 

[decodancer]

View attachment 568
Very interesting article, thanks for sharing. Here's the before and after of my former tow vehicle. It may have been caused by a smoldering cigarette though it was hour before a coworker noticed a small stream of smoke coming out of the door. She rushed out and opened the door and poof, the rest is history. It took only minutes to ignite the mattress, clothing and all my Christmas gifts. I had just returned home the day before and didn't unpack. Fireproof is much more important to me now, thank God the dogs were not in the truck.

 

[compassrose]

Thanks for the links. I did a little more research and found that I could glue the small safe to the floor using a silicone based glue.

Use a better glue than silicone. I would suggest one of the PL brand glues (in a caulking tube) perhaps the 8X glue (about $8 per tube and READ the instructions on how to use). Put it in a place where you can't take a sledge hammer and get a good swing.

I have had to have my birth certificate produced in order to get a NM drivers license among many other official documents. Had to have my mother fed ex it to me over a holiday weekend. If I had been here illegally from Mexico, I would not have needed any of the documents to prove I was who I was (nor any of the documents proving David was who he was because I used our marriage certificate for proof of identity and citizenship). So yes, you DO need the documents or you need a passport (something we need to get, not that we will ever leave the US).

 

[caseyc]

As others may have already pointed out, it's important to get a safe that's both waterproof and fireproof. That's because even if your documents/items survived the initial fire, the water from the firetruck putting out the fire might damage your stuff. The safes that are also waterproof have a rubber seal around the lid to keep the water out. The rubber seal might require more pressure to open the top lid, but it's worth it. At one time, I had 3 different fireproof/waterproof safes, each of different sizes. The large size was actually rather heavy and large. I only use the small one nowadays because it's portable and has a carry handle, whereas the other larger sizes didn't have any handles. I also use those large zip-lock plastic bags to put my documents inside (eg: Passport, etc). I use the safebox handle to put a steel cord through it and locked down to an immovable D-Ring clasp attached to the van floor. By the way, everyone should also keep a fire extinguisher inside their vehicle. I have 2 fire extinguishers in my vehicle, a large one that's attached to the van wall, and a smaller one that can be moved around.

 

[Starlight]

So sorry about your car burning... and at Christmas, too. wow
This is something to really consider... protecting documents.
Always looking for cheaper options, I looked here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fire-retardant_materials

Fireproof, waterproof... but what if your van was stolen...???
If you have ever had documents stolen... well, it's a nightmare.
And, your stash shouldn't really look like "your stash."
IMO - anyone stealing a camper will be looking for "your stash."

Someone once gave me the advice to photocopy all my documents and to leave the originals where they will be completely safe. For non-replaceable documents, you should always have a "certified copy" made at the source of the document, which will have a notary stamp and be as acceptable as any original.

There are places in cars and trucks that are hollow metal, which may get heat, but will not allow enough air to combust, especially if something is wrapped in insulating material and in a metal tube. If the camper is stolen, it would be so indescreet that it might never be seen... to be used to steal your identity. If you don't have a hollow metal place, you could make one by cutting into a panel... away from things that serve as fuel for fire.

Interesting subject, alrighty.

---

To add:
Photocopy all documents, credit cards (both sides), and credit card contact numbers for all cards.
Also: If there was a way to block the wheels from moving while you are parked, so that even if someone hotwired it... it wouldn't drive away... I'd figure that one out, too. (rocks?? noisemakers?? metal bar into the rims???)

 

[decodancer]

Thanks, You make a lot of good points. A not so funny story about getting replacement documents. I had my purse stolen off my shoulder while walking to the car from a dance in NYC. I had a heavy coat on and didn't realize it was missing until we went looking for car keys. The extra set was an hour away, it was 2:00 in the morning... Let's just say it was a challenge to get home. My bank account luckily didn't have too much in it. The debit card was used in a machine for Metro North tickets by whoever took it. No way to prove it wasn't me so I never got that back. My drivers license was the hard part. I needed among other things, a birth certificate to get a replacement. I had the original with my tiny foot prints on it but they wouldn't take that. To get the "official" one you had to send a photocopy of guess what, the missing drivers license.

 

[stude53]

Dealing with dumb government regulations ( local, state, or federal), can be frustrating. :-/:huh:
When I moved to North Carolina in 2004, , I went to DMV to get my NC drivers license. I was asked if I had a middle name I answered yes. The clerk then asked for two pieces of Identification that showed my middle name. I presented my social security card, but All my other ID things like debit and credit cards, insurance card, library card, etc. had only my first and last name.
I was told they could not issue me a drivers license. I left and went straight to my Insurance agent, and asked for my policy to be changed to show my middle name, and issue me a new ID card.
Less than a half hour later, I walked back into the DMV, and five minutes later, I had my NC drivers license.
And what more had they learned about me? NOTHING!!!

Bob

 

[akrvbob]

If you're wheels have holes you can put a heavy cable through it and through the axle. Can't be driven till it is cut off and that is going to attract a lot of attention. I do it to my trailer.
Bob

 

[Starlight]

Now... to find that perfect place for the extra key... hmmm...

 

[urowhurs]

It depends on how much money you want to spend. I have a 700 lb Liberty Franklin 12 Best Gun Safe Under 1000 Reviews - Affordable Pick in [2017-2018] bolted to a concrete floor. The design is very pry resistant (high build quality) but with 11 ga steel that can be cut through using a $100 tool (cutter weighs about 3 lbs) (and plenty of spare blades) available at Home Depot in less than an hour. We're talking about a 2' x 4' hole in the side with little or no damage to the contents. Liberty makes lower end models than my safe and models with much thicker steel that requires a thicker wallet to buy. The lower end Liberty Centurion safes https://secretstorages.com/best-home-safes/ have 14 ga steel an ax can punch through. But I bet I could get into the top of the line with 5/16" steel safes in less than 3-4 hrs with the same tool although I may bring a spare tool in case the 1st one burned out. Any experienced burglar can get into safes like this given enough time. Your goal is to make getting into the safe require more time than the burglar is willing to spend getting into it. A torch will get into the safe even faster but would probably damage the contents. Any safe with steel less than 5/8" thick and super well designed can be cut into given a few hours using readily available tools. They all talk about how they protect from drilling the lock or punching back the pins (drill small hole in the side of the safe to do this if the lock has a poor cam design) but with modern mechanical cutting tools (no torch or plasma cutter needed) cutting 3/8" steel isn't that hard to do given some time. Keep in mind that 95% of home burglars don't know how to cut a safe and want to get out of your home in less than 5 minutes so get some thick steel and slow them down if your budget allows for it and what you store in the safe is worth the additional expense.