Fear - how do you handle?

[Geneeus]

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Hi all! I’m fairly new to this, and I can’t get past the fear of camping by myself (though I still go). I bring my pup, I’m in a Honda Element where I can jump to the drivers seat in a second, I bring my big dog, I have various safety tools and defensive weapons.

I’m just looking for some advice on how you all got past it? Is it just through practice? Do you have any specific techniques? Or do you just live with it?

Thanks!!

Although we can't tell the relative ages of the folks who have already responded, one thing is sure; the amount of fear you feel and how you respond changes with both age and experience. When I started riding a motorcycle as a teenager, I didn't feel much fear, because I was invincible and also because I didn't appreciate how dangerous the sport can be. After 50 years of riding, I feel more fear, because I've been down, seen friends die, and understand that the roads today are far more dangerous then the '60s. But the joy overcomes the fear, and I still ride today. But experience and increased skills give me the tools to accurately assess the skills, and put them in perspective.

Yes there are dangers in camping, with or without a tent. And yes, there are steps to mitigate that fear, or to deal with it, such as dogs, weapons, motion alarms, etc. (And by the way, I'm not too sure about the idea of putting a weapon, such as a sword, outside my tent where someone could pick it up and use it on me!)

The joy outweighs the fear, so we pursue a nomad life.

 

[JDelete]

I'm 65. I was invincible when I was younger—it's a good thing I was or else I would be long gone with all the stupid stuff I did!

 

[bebewanna]

I am inside a National Forest most days. No fear of wildlife, a bear is around I have seen him but he has no interest in me. We had cougar on Webcam and that is always a concern but not likely. I am not armed only because I had moved to Europe and given my 2 pistoli to friends.

But my 90lb muscle dog Pit Bull doesn't need to even bark at anyone lol, just seeing him is enough.

You know I look at it this way... If someone is really out to get you. You can be totally prepared but it's the element of surprise that is against you.

It's good to be aware but honestly unless you put yourself in a situation (homeless encampment etc) being out in the woods you are really pretty safe.
City criminals usually are not wandering around the mountains.

 

[frater secessus]

I was *not* going to greet people with a loaded gun in my hand.

Agreed. That's why doG invented holsters. Srsly, though, for those so inclined concealed carry allows one to be simultaneously friendly to others and have a sidearm at hand if needed.

I do my best to boondock away from others. When interacting I default to friendly and interact with people based on the behavior they present to me. If things get weird I de-escalate and/or I leave. So far no one has tried to push it further.

But something bothered me about the person that admitted being armed AND having a high fear level.

There is interesting research about amygdala activity / threat perception correlated with affinity group. IMO it helps explain a driving factor on both ends of the spectrum: kumbaya naifs as well as the performatively-aggressive "tacticool" crowd. Can't say more on that without violating forum rules.

My biggest concern (notice I didn't say, "fear"!) is exiting the car and finding out there's a rattlesnake sheltering underneath it

Snake gaiters are a thing, and don't look uncomfortable. Might be cheap piece of mind.

Related: I've only seen two rattlers so far and both of them were in places I didn't expect. I think this means I need to pay more attention!

 

[DannyB1954]

You need to be prepared and cautious without being paranoid, even if you had stayed at home. When your persona shows that you are prepared to deal with trouble, you seldom need to. Most evil people are cowards themselves.
Some find safety in numbers and travel with a group, but even then someone in the group may cause you harm. Security has always been an illusion.
I think defense classes are great, especially where you get to kick the instructor in the groin. (padded and protected of course). Once you do something a few times it gets easier and instinctive. Actually being able to beat on someone hard who is protected will give you a bit of confidence of the power that you have.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.

 

[PeterPiper]

Live with it! Fear is there because millions of years of evolution put it there. Never try to get rid of it.

But fear is definitely trainable. Just keep on going camping. You will learn what noises to pay attention to. Move if you feel you have to. And what doesn't bother me may bother you. That's fine, there's no one single rule to follow that is 100% reliable. Life is always a question of percentages. And we each have different ways of evaluating and reacting to those percentages.

Exactly...so when these guys do this I'm just in awe...... talk about lack of fear....
Note the lack of a parachute

 

[RvNaut]

Fear... we each have different triggers for our Fight or Flight instincts

In another week I will also be new and living as a nomad. I am the luxury of being 6'3", and while I wouldn't hurt more than a fly, I am an imposing presence... so that helps and illustrates the man thing I do. Be prepared. Look prepared. Act bold. ( when in NYC acting crazy is better, people leave you alone)

I will have a 24/7 dvr cam system. It will be very visible. Anyone scoping me out will see that.
I have a big dog. ... barking helps!

Overcoming fear for me is doing as much as is practical in advance of what ever situation you will be facing... be it buying an RV for the first time, or camping out in the boonies, in order to have options at hand.... most of us humans are OK people... one of the discussions in here talked about how being out in the desert is way safer than being in the middle of the city... that thieves want easy targets, and schlepping about in the desert is not something they will go to the effort to do.

I have more "concern" over creatures than I do people.. scorpions and snakes present a much bigger potential for me than people.

That said... the second you get the bad vibe.. move on.. the moment you feel uncomfortable with anyone, remember that "you had somewhere to be". Be a bit guarded up front...

Also... they are loose knit groups of folks that band together to move about and they form community amongst themselves and that kind of relationship can really help everyone feel safer...

 

[rruff]

Agreed. That's why doG invented holsters. Srsly, though, for those so inclined concealed carry allows one to be simultaneously friendly to others and have a sidearm at hand if needed.

I had a holster... but when exactly am I going to know that someone is a real threat and I need to pull my gun out? Unless I'm preemptive, it's always going to be too late. Pulling my gun out *after* someone has a gun on me, seems incredibly stupid/dangerous.

I've had guns pulled on me many times!... by people who apparently were scared and thought their gun was keeping them safe... by pointing it at anyone they thought might be a threat... which was pretty much everyone, I guess. Ya, I'm not going to live like that.

I also love dogs, but I definitely don't want one around when I'm camping. They bark at and chase all the wildlife away...

You need to be prepared and cautious without being paranoid, even if you had stayed at home. When your persona shows that you are prepared to deal with trouble, you seldom need to. Most evil people are cowards themselves.

"Predators" get confused when they are trying to be scary and you're not afraid...

I am inside a National Forest most days. No fear of wildlife, a bear is around I have seen him but he has no interest in me. We had cougar on Webcam and that is always a concern but not likely.

I've had a few dozen encounters with black bears and they always run away. The one grizzly I saw did too. The two mountain lions I saw did not run away, but they also weren't interested in eating me. I never stay in campgrounds though! Those bears have different behaviors.

Other people are the biggest threat, and I agree that "predators" are very unlikely to look for "prey" in the boonies.

 

[WanderingRose]

As to fear of strangers…

We have talked before of Gavin de Becker’s book “The Gift of Fear”, in which he emphasizes the importance of listening to your intuition and paying attention to cues about people you encounter to accurately discern whether they are dangerous or not.

He does an outstanding job of articulating what to be wary of and why, with the goal of honing our instincts rather than living in generalized fear of everyone and any new situation.

Under $10 in paperback, and one of the best books I have ever read.

As to PTSD and other generalized anxieties, there are some excellent medications out there that help tamp these down without negative side effects.

 

[Malamute]

If you stay out of grizzly country and avoid stepping on rattlers, the odds of being killed by an animal in the west is effectively zero... even sleeping on the ground in the open every night. Unless you count crashing into a deer or elk on the highway!

Ive nearly stepped on rattlesnakes a number of times, the closest calls were at a cabin I lived in for a while, it had a fair number of snakes around. had 2 at different times under the porch steps i discovered when coming home after dark, stepped over one going into the garage one day and saw it on the way out the door, had several in the yard, one bit my dog in the face, (never found that one), and I had one get in the house once. A 44 birdshot load took care of that, the others were dispatched in various ways, mostly shot, one or two or so with a shovel.

Regarding dogs in camp, Ive had them most of the time Ive spent out, mine never acted too antisocial with most critters. They rather enjoy seeing animals, but no unnecessary barking, generally no chasing stuff other than squirrels that were close. Well behaved and trained, they are delightful companions.

 

[gizmotron]

Exactly...so when these guys do this I'm just in awe...... talk about lack of fear....
Note the lack of a parachute

It's not a lack of fear and it never is. It's an acquired skill. I know this more than I know anything. I was a Yosemite big-wall climber, a pure mountaineering skier, a mind boggling SCUBA diver, and a death defying wind surfer. Yes, that is possible too. You can add a hated person with a political opinion to that, and the foremost expert in the world on randomness and gambling experts too. Fear is all in your mind. It's in the very best instruction books on mountaineering in the world for the past 50 years. "Relax your mind." It's your mind that does all the damage and it can kill you if you let it. You don't like sitting there like a dead duck? Don't be a dead duck. Make who ever meets up with you be a dead duck. It really is that simple. You meet up with God. Be humble.

 

[JDelete]

Well said, gizmotron!

 

[PeterPiper]

It's not a lack of fear and it never is. It's an acquired skill. I know this more than I know anything. I was a Yosemite big-wall climber, a pure mountaineering skier, a mind boggling SCUBA diver, and a death defying wind surfer. Yes, that is possible too. You can add a hated person with a political opinion to that, and the foremost expert in the world on randomness and gambling experts too. Fear is all in your mind. It's in the very best instruction books on mountaineering in the world for the past 50 years. "Relax your mind." It's your mind that does all the damage and it can kill you if you let it. You don't like sitting there like a dead duck? Don't be a dead duck. Make who ever meets up with you be a dead duck. It really is that simple. You meet up with God. Be humble.

Well, I was actually just commending their courage. They're providing a service. The vast majority cannot climb those towers. Only a few.
God bless those men (and women) who do those jobs and keep them safe.
But you could pay me a million bucks, I'd still be sans a million bucks. I will never acquire the "skill" to climb those towers.
Nope. Common sense says gravity gonna get ya and it don't take much height to reach terminal velocity when it does.
I'm good at fixing electronics......climbing towers not so much. Clumsy feet.

Just because you might acquire skills to overcome your fear doesn't mean you can't still win a golden Darwin.
I'm just specifically talking about climbing towers here. Nothing else.

Brad GoBright had climbing skills at the ultimate level. "Had" is the key word. He met God (hopefully)
Fear can also save your hide from doing dumb things. Yeah, I'll just hold on to my tower climbing fears.
Some skills can kills.

Uh, no thanks. Unnecessary "skills". Call me chicken. No gambling with my life.
This is making me queasy lol

 

[JDelete]

There is quite a difference between the daredevil walking around the, what is it, chimney tower, and the guy up on the tower. The guy on the tower has safety gear and is *supposed* to attach the next safety strap before disconnecting the previous one. That guy could "fall" and would only fall about 5 feet or so. Yes, it would be scary but it is not a drop to the ground.

 

[rruff]

"Relax your mind." It's your mind that does all the damage and it can kill you if you let it.

I think the first step in relaxing the mind is to simply not believe in it. The thoughts running around in your head are not reality... it's just noise. Random anxiety ridden thoughts... and the feelings that follow. If you discount the importance of these thoughts, they will eventually fade to the background. If you instead regard them as reality and act on them, then they will rule your experience and your life.

Paranoia is not intuition.

The perception of a threat is rarely an actual threat. Even if it is an actual threat, fear is unlikely to result in appropriate action (ie keep you safe).

 

[rruff]

There is quite a difference between the daredevil walking around the, what is it, chimney tower, and the guy up on the tower. The guy on the tower has safety gear and is *supposed* to attach the next safety strap before disconnecting the previous one. That guy could "fall" and would only fall about 5 feet or so. Yes, it would be scary but it is not a drop to the ground.

Anyone who rock climbs would be very comfortable doing that kind of work. It isn't really dangerous.

Back in the day they didn't use harnesses, though...

 

[gizmotron]

There is quite a difference between the daredevil walking around the, what is it, chimney tower, and the guy up on the tower. The guy on the tower has safety gear and is *supposed* to attach the next safety strap before disconnecting the previous one. That guy could "fall" and would only fall about 5 feet or so. Yes, it would be scary but it is not a drop to the ground.

You got that right. Rock climbing accidents that result in death are very rare. Back country skiers are mostly wiped out by ignorance and avalanches. In both these cases it's the mind that protects you. The rock climber is using a rope strong enough to hall a Jeep up the face. It almost always includes a person on the other end that deals with falls if they occur. You can take courses in avalanche awareness and test open snow fields for likely danger before ever adventuring out on them. Knowledge and skills can help you "relax your mind." You can also take drugs for that, lose all sense of fear, and become a living crash test dummy. Nobody goes to Yosemite to climb a difficult large wall, resulting in needing a rescue, with only one or two beginner climbs under their belts. It all starts out at the beginning with simple top roped practice climbs. These day there are climbing shops with climbing walls set up like a gymnasium. The same goes for camping out alone in the wilderness. The point is don't be bear & mountain lion food. Don't camp where other people have been preyed upon for being too close in to large populations. There are obvious dangers in this world. Find a way to actually mitigate that reality. One is to be a danger to obvious predators. If they want in then finish them off. Self protection is still a right. Would you like to meet up with a rapist with a 12 gauge shotgun in your hands or a sign with a happy face on it? Everyone has their own sense of survival. If someone wants to break into your car you need to know your limitations, skills, and preparedness. It is the assailant that needs to be in fear, not you. There is also surrender. You can go happily and die knowing that you don't mind being killed by a stranger. I recommend a gut level scream as the knife goes in. Just say goodbye and so long. I won't be seeing you down the road.

Does that sound harsh? All fear will do is make you freeze up. You will forget your skills if you have any.

 

[Abbott]

What I have done:

1. Prepare: I make certain that I know where all of my things are and I leave them in condition to be moved or used as needed. Not spread around and needing attention before use or packing. Sleep securely means knowing that when I drift off that everything is in order and that no extra motions will be needed to accomplish what needs to be done if I awake with an out of the ordinary situation.

3. Training: If you want to keep a weapon make certain that you can safely and effectively use it. Life is not TV and weapons do not function the way that they do on TV which many people are subconsciously trained too believe. Finding a competent person or organization for training is easy and affordable and you might make a new friend (s) or (at the least) a new acquaintance (s).

4. Dog: A small dog is much, much better then no dog. They smell and hear much more information then you do and they will alert you if you pay attention to them. I always keep a dog or dogs.

5. Being armed: If you choose to be armed and have the confidence in your training that you know that you can protect yourself then keep your weapon (s) to yourself. There is absolutely no good reason to let strangers know that you are armed and what you are armed with. A Concealed Carry Permit is not difficult to obtain, a Utah permit allows legal concealed carry in over 36 states and is obtainable in many states along side your states qualification course for a small extra fee. It is against the law and good sense to let others know that you are carrying concealed when you happen to be.

6. Confidence: Get some. A short affordable self-defense course is available with little bother to find. It does not have to be a weapons course...it can be a confidence building course of some type, a first aid course, a camping course, a survival course for instance.

Some people are much more comfortable in small groups, if that is where your comfort zone is then find areas that will provide that whenever possible.

7. Be aware: Just practice observing, listening and most importantly paying attention to what is around you at all times. This is called "Situational Awareness" practice it and enjoy the comfort that it will bring.

8. Relax and have fun: 99% of the time the only thing that you will have to fear is what is in your head. You can beat that fear by telling yourself to relax.

Just my thoughts and experiences with what I have learned or done. I jumped on a freight train when I was 14 years old and never went home again. I learned that almost everything that I had to fear I had brought with me in my head. Once I conquered most of that everything else was easy and pleasant.

 

[rruff]

The point is don't be bear & mountain lion food. Don't camp where other people have been preyed upon for being too close in to large populations. There are obvious dangers in this world. Find a way to actually mitigate that reality. One is to be a danger to obvious predators. If they want in then finish them off. Self protection is still a right. Would you like to meet up with a rapist with a 12 gauge shotgun in your hands or a sign with a happy face on it?

You don't need to "mitigate dangers" if they are very small to begin with. We are all going to die. Those of us who are retirement age are not going to last much longer regardless of what we do. I can think of way better ways to live than worrying about it... at all. Being "safe enough" while vagabonding is very easy to do with a little common sense. And I'm not talking about arming yourself.

Avoiding being "bear and mountain lion food" requires what precaution? The danger is near zero... unless you are very stupid (like feeding them). Rattlesnakes are a different story, but they hibernate in the winter, even in places that have warm winters. I mostly see them for a few weeks in the fall and spring, when transitioning from desert to mountains. They are very courteous though, in that they will usually signal if you get close to them. Otherwise watch your step.

About the rapist... unless you have that shotgun loaded and pointed at every "potential threat" that gets within 30 feet of you, it's unlikely to mitigate anything. If someone tries to break into your rig while you are in it, then that's a very stupid person... or more likely a very drunk one, who can be deterred without killing them. If you'd prefer to blow them away, then I think you are legally entitled to do that most places, however.

The only time someone tried to get in my rig while I was in it.... they were cops. I don't think they were drunk, but they were stupid...

I get it... people are afraid and having a gun makes them feel safer. They can spin fantasies in their minds all day about horrifying scenarios that might happen, and pretend that having the gun will save them. In reality though... that only exists in the mind. The threat odds are very low, and if there was an actual threat, the odds of the gun helping are very low as well.

 

[Malamute]

.
I get it... people are afraid and having a gun makes them feel safer. They can spin fantasies in their minds all day about horrifying scenarios that might happen, and pretend that having the gun will save them. In reality though... that only exists in the mind. The threat odds are very low, and if there was an actual threat, the odds of the gun helping are very low as well.

Id suggest that is incorrect, based on history, and numerous law enforcement people stating otherwise based on their experience and dealing with situations after the fact. If one chooses not to have a firearm, Im all for realizing ones limitations and preferences, and certainly agree theres scads of people that have them and have absolutely no business having them due to personal issues, of various types, but its not shown to be accurate that they dont help in the majority of cases that come to light.