JD GUMBEE
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2018
- Messages
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wolfmother09 :
You have been in the back of my mind for a day now and maybe the following will help you.
When I went looking, I set a budget ceiling of $50,000.
Nearly every one of the units at that price...those pretty fiberglass newer RV's were delaminating somewhere.
(Look in every corner, carefully. Every single one had water building up. ...but I bought East Coast, so a desert RV may well be better off.)
I ended up realizing very quickly...you are paying purely for the year.
The 2000's at the time (it was 5 years ago) were @ the top of my budget.
(We wanted/bought a 32' Class A.)
I noticed they all suffered from the exact same issues.
Frozen brakes
Ancient hoses and belts
NON-working fridge
Cracked water system from freezing
Tires that were 10+ years old
Vermin poop
LEAKS IN THE ROOF (EVERY single one had some form of roof damage.)
Various broken cabinets...or some form of dysfunctional tank gauges or internal wiring issues
...and the most common issue...most owners wanted WAY too much $$$ for an old RV.
So we went out and looked at some much older units, just for fun.
Mrs G and I saw an ancient 1986 Chevy powered unit and the gears in my head began turning.
I realized I liked the "corrugated metal" construction better than the fiberglass panels. (You can fix it quite easy...and it does not delaminate.)
We stood there, realizing we were looking @ a rig he wanted 5500 dollars for...and it had twin roof units, big genset, all the goodies inside, including a rather nice kitchen setup. It also had less than 12,000 original miles on it. 454 GM power/ t-400 trans Tiffin-built. (Not the best out there...but not the worst by any means.) Even had a recent fridge.
3 hours was spent looking over the entire unit and then, when it passed that, it went to the garage for a complete "innards study" (compression check, oil analysis and brake disassembly) which it passed with flying colors. I spent just shy of 500 dollars @ that garage. You should plan on doing the same thing, no matter which rig you choose!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(If all you take from this post is remembering to have a real auto shop do a full check (belts, fan clutch, water pump, wiring system inspection) including a compression test. That compression test, along with an oil analysis, tells tales about the engine the human ear just cannot hear. It is one of the best tests for engine condition you can have done. $500 is a lot to spend...but better to find out it is on its way out, than end up with cooked cylinder 3 months post-purchase. If anyone disputes this---they are, quite simply, dead wrong. Period.)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The tires were old.
The roof had leaked up front, but the previous owner had done a decent job of repairing it...and he had caught the leak right away...
Carpeting was SOOO 80's, I felt like snorting a line, wearing an ear ring...getting a mullet (again LOL) and putting on some Billy Idol on the Kraco Stereo. <GOD AWFUL stereo>
There were a few things (especially for a mechanic, who can repair his own) that were actually advantages to the non-fuel injection engine.
1. If you have spark and gas, it runs.
2. The fuel pump is OUTSIDE the tank...and it costs $29.00 for a good Walbro fuel pump. (We carry a spare.)
3. The entire ignition system needs one wire and a 12 volt battery to run.
(This means if the electrical system has an issue, there is no computer to get hurt...or decide it knows better than you when to fail. We carry a spare distributor, that I can swap without even going outside, in less than an hour with very simple tools.) (For you, it would mean a road service or tow...but you KNOW the most you will need to do in order to restore your spark. The entire system is under $350 in a brand new box. We had our new one installed and we kept the original for spare...that way we KNOW that spare works. In your case, this would be a $500 total investment at a shop...to end up with the same thing (used spare in a box, ready for action.) You need to decide if this safety net is worthwhile for yourself.
4. The entire fuel delivery system can be replaced for under $550, labor included. (Brand new carb and fuel pump.) EFI simply cannot match this ease of repair/certainty of repair.
5. Because of the older year and technology under the hood, the selling price ended up at $4,000.
After we bought it, we did the following:
Fresh belts. (All of them) Took the old ones, put them in the new belt packages, with the part# on them...and they sit as an emergency spare, ready to be installed if need be. (More than that, we do not rely on an "AutoZone" teenager who forgot their ADD meds that day, to look up our belts. We have the number right there.)
New air-spring units in the front.
Brakes all the way around. The rear calipers were half-frozen. The fronts were okay, but the newer brake pads we have can run hotter before fading. I spent the $$$ and had the fronts done, along with all new wheel bearings in the front.
We resealed the roof with roll-on elastomeric stuff. We went with the really good stuff. (Henrys/Harrys or??? Cannot remember, but if you search, there are countless posts/videos about which products do the best job. Just do not go with the belly-wash garbage they claim to be a "bargain.")
We had the Onan Genset serviced. Oil/air filter.
The rear-end was flushed, cleaned and the seals were replaced. (SYNTHETIC in a rear end (even a old 1986 model) makes a difference in MPG and longevity. Every RV over 10 years old needs to have this done. No matter what.)
We flushed the trans, changed engine oil and replaced breather element/air filter.
We purchased a brand new HEI distributor and swapped it as mentioned previously, keeping the old one as a spare.
Our RV needed to be able to tow a car trailer with a lot of weight on it, so I did a custom hitch.
We replaced all 6 tires. Chinese low cost tires on the rear were okay, but on the front, we bought the best tires we could get.
By the time we were done with that, we had doubled our investment. A $4,000 RV had become an $8,000 RV and we were not done yet. In fact, a few people we know in the fleet/truck/auto realm, thought I was spending too much on a vehicle of that vintage. (I did not agree.)
Resale meant nothing to me. As long as we got 4 years out of the RV, we could remove our solar/electrical goodies, give it away...and still be ahead of the $20,000-$50,000 units we had looked at.
(A couple of tours later, 2 years of full-time living and 29,000 miles...still runs excellent. No plans to make a change, either.)
We have added 1,000+ watt solar system, pretty nice audio setup and ham radio/CB/walkie talkie setup. (I wanted it to be able to use it with the cadaver dogs, so it ends up as a base-station during the missing person searches, which are very often, in a rural area.)
There are a few drawbacks, though.
Aesthetics. It looks old. Even washed and waxed, you can tell it is form the 80's.
Instead of getting 8MPG-10MPG with a new unit, I am more like 6.5-7MPG.
(Put a 22' car trailer behind one with a station wagon on it...and it affects your MPG...a lot.)
(Do a reasonable estimate of your miles-per-year and do the math on 10MPG vs 7MPG. Excel spreadsheets with these figures will surprise you. You can buy a LOT of gasoline for $4500 savings in purchase price. ALSO: Salesman lie through their teeth about MPG figures. So do some "proud" owners, loyal to a particular brand.)
In the higher elevations (pretty much, above 7,000 feet) I could tell there was power loss. (Fuel injection adjusts for this all by itself, unlike a carb.) This affected us twice really. @ 14,000 feet...it was very obvious. In all the miles we traveled, it was only one day and about an hour or two of driving that this affected us, however. YMMV
Buying an RV is a game of which compromises you are willing to make and your specific needs.
For many RV people, an older unit with ultra low mileage and wear can be the best solution.
I strongly suggest you begin looking at the different units for sale near you.
(Private sales, not dealer units.)
Take pictures.
Look at all sizes and layouts.
You have time. Do not make the mistake that so many people do by only viewing two or three units before buying.
(BTW, a 22' Class C does not really fit in a regular parking spot.)
By the time you take off on your first assignment, have a few weekend trips under your belt and a few thousand miles minimum on your rig.
No matter what you buy, unless brand new, the pre-purchase compression check and oil analysis is the best $$$$ you will ever spend. If the seller does not agree to allowing it, don't walk away...run.
(...and if you DO end up buying from a dealer...do NOT trust his shop to do the compression/oil analysis. Pay an independent shop that YOU chose...not the dealers buddy next door. It is sad, but true fact that most salesman are lower than snake poop in the morals department.)
Sure would be interested in hearing about your RV shopping adventures.
You have been in the back of my mind for a day now and maybe the following will help you.
When I went looking, I set a budget ceiling of $50,000.
Nearly every one of the units at that price...those pretty fiberglass newer RV's were delaminating somewhere.
(Look in every corner, carefully. Every single one had water building up. ...but I bought East Coast, so a desert RV may well be better off.)
I ended up realizing very quickly...you are paying purely for the year.
The 2000's at the time (it was 5 years ago) were @ the top of my budget.
(We wanted/bought a 32' Class A.)
I noticed they all suffered from the exact same issues.
Frozen brakes
Ancient hoses and belts
NON-working fridge
Cracked water system from freezing
Tires that were 10+ years old
Vermin poop
LEAKS IN THE ROOF (EVERY single one had some form of roof damage.)
Various broken cabinets...or some form of dysfunctional tank gauges or internal wiring issues
...and the most common issue...most owners wanted WAY too much $$$ for an old RV.
So we went out and looked at some much older units, just for fun.
Mrs G and I saw an ancient 1986 Chevy powered unit and the gears in my head began turning.
I realized I liked the "corrugated metal" construction better than the fiberglass panels. (You can fix it quite easy...and it does not delaminate.)
We stood there, realizing we were looking @ a rig he wanted 5500 dollars for...and it had twin roof units, big genset, all the goodies inside, including a rather nice kitchen setup. It also had less than 12,000 original miles on it. 454 GM power/ t-400 trans Tiffin-built. (Not the best out there...but not the worst by any means.) Even had a recent fridge.
3 hours was spent looking over the entire unit and then, when it passed that, it went to the garage for a complete "innards study" (compression check, oil analysis and brake disassembly) which it passed with flying colors. I spent just shy of 500 dollars @ that garage. You should plan on doing the same thing, no matter which rig you choose!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(If all you take from this post is remembering to have a real auto shop do a full check (belts, fan clutch, water pump, wiring system inspection) including a compression test. That compression test, along with an oil analysis, tells tales about the engine the human ear just cannot hear. It is one of the best tests for engine condition you can have done. $500 is a lot to spend...but better to find out it is on its way out, than end up with cooked cylinder 3 months post-purchase. If anyone disputes this---they are, quite simply, dead wrong. Period.)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The tires were old.
The roof had leaked up front, but the previous owner had done a decent job of repairing it...and he had caught the leak right away...
Carpeting was SOOO 80's, I felt like snorting a line, wearing an ear ring...getting a mullet (again LOL) and putting on some Billy Idol on the Kraco Stereo. <GOD AWFUL stereo>
There were a few things (especially for a mechanic, who can repair his own) that were actually advantages to the non-fuel injection engine.
1. If you have spark and gas, it runs.
2. The fuel pump is OUTSIDE the tank...and it costs $29.00 for a good Walbro fuel pump. (We carry a spare.)
3. The entire ignition system needs one wire and a 12 volt battery to run.
(This means if the electrical system has an issue, there is no computer to get hurt...or decide it knows better than you when to fail. We carry a spare distributor, that I can swap without even going outside, in less than an hour with very simple tools.) (For you, it would mean a road service or tow...but you KNOW the most you will need to do in order to restore your spark. The entire system is under $350 in a brand new box. We had our new one installed and we kept the original for spare...that way we KNOW that spare works. In your case, this would be a $500 total investment at a shop...to end up with the same thing (used spare in a box, ready for action.) You need to decide if this safety net is worthwhile for yourself.
4. The entire fuel delivery system can be replaced for under $550, labor included. (Brand new carb and fuel pump.) EFI simply cannot match this ease of repair/certainty of repair.
5. Because of the older year and technology under the hood, the selling price ended up at $4,000.
After we bought it, we did the following:
Fresh belts. (All of them) Took the old ones, put them in the new belt packages, with the part# on them...and they sit as an emergency spare, ready to be installed if need be. (More than that, we do not rely on an "AutoZone" teenager who forgot their ADD meds that day, to look up our belts. We have the number right there.)
New air-spring units in the front.
Brakes all the way around. The rear calipers were half-frozen. The fronts were okay, but the newer brake pads we have can run hotter before fading. I spent the $$$ and had the fronts done, along with all new wheel bearings in the front.
We resealed the roof with roll-on elastomeric stuff. We went with the really good stuff. (Henrys/Harrys or??? Cannot remember, but if you search, there are countless posts/videos about which products do the best job. Just do not go with the belly-wash garbage they claim to be a "bargain.")
We had the Onan Genset serviced. Oil/air filter.
The rear-end was flushed, cleaned and the seals were replaced. (SYNTHETIC in a rear end (even a old 1986 model) makes a difference in MPG and longevity. Every RV over 10 years old needs to have this done. No matter what.)
We flushed the trans, changed engine oil and replaced breather element/air filter.
We purchased a brand new HEI distributor and swapped it as mentioned previously, keeping the old one as a spare.
Our RV needed to be able to tow a car trailer with a lot of weight on it, so I did a custom hitch.
We replaced all 6 tires. Chinese low cost tires on the rear were okay, but on the front, we bought the best tires we could get.
By the time we were done with that, we had doubled our investment. A $4,000 RV had become an $8,000 RV and we were not done yet. In fact, a few people we know in the fleet/truck/auto realm, thought I was spending too much on a vehicle of that vintage. (I did not agree.)
Resale meant nothing to me. As long as we got 4 years out of the RV, we could remove our solar/electrical goodies, give it away...and still be ahead of the $20,000-$50,000 units we had looked at.
(A couple of tours later, 2 years of full-time living and 29,000 miles...still runs excellent. No plans to make a change, either.)
We have added 1,000+ watt solar system, pretty nice audio setup and ham radio/CB/walkie talkie setup. (I wanted it to be able to use it with the cadaver dogs, so it ends up as a base-station during the missing person searches, which are very often, in a rural area.)
There are a few drawbacks, though.
Aesthetics. It looks old. Even washed and waxed, you can tell it is form the 80's.
Instead of getting 8MPG-10MPG with a new unit, I am more like 6.5-7MPG.
(Put a 22' car trailer behind one with a station wagon on it...and it affects your MPG...a lot.)
(Do a reasonable estimate of your miles-per-year and do the math on 10MPG vs 7MPG. Excel spreadsheets with these figures will surprise you. You can buy a LOT of gasoline for $4500 savings in purchase price. ALSO: Salesman lie through their teeth about MPG figures. So do some "proud" owners, loyal to a particular brand.)
In the higher elevations (pretty much, above 7,000 feet) I could tell there was power loss. (Fuel injection adjusts for this all by itself, unlike a carb.) This affected us twice really. @ 14,000 feet...it was very obvious. In all the miles we traveled, it was only one day and about an hour or two of driving that this affected us, however. YMMV
Buying an RV is a game of which compromises you are willing to make and your specific needs.
For many RV people, an older unit with ultra low mileage and wear can be the best solution.
I strongly suggest you begin looking at the different units for sale near you.
(Private sales, not dealer units.)
Take pictures.
Look at all sizes and layouts.
You have time. Do not make the mistake that so many people do by only viewing two or three units before buying.
(BTW, a 22' Class C does not really fit in a regular parking spot.)
By the time you take off on your first assignment, have a few weekend trips under your belt and a few thousand miles minimum on your rig.
No matter what you buy, unless brand new, the pre-purchase compression check and oil analysis is the best $$$$ you will ever spend. If the seller does not agree to allowing it, don't walk away...run.
(...and if you DO end up buying from a dealer...do NOT trust his shop to do the compression/oil analysis. Pay an independent shop that YOU chose...not the dealers buddy next door. It is sad, but true fact that most salesman are lower than snake poop in the morals department.)
Sure would be interested in hearing about your RV shopping adventures.
