Even If I had the Money, I'd prefer a Van over an Expensive RV

[One Awesome Inch]

I don't know how many of you are following Chris Travels channel on youtube, but I've learned alot. He has spent I'm guessing north of $30,000 on a Monarch Class A and that thing has had one problem after another since he bought it. The main lesson for me is to stay away RVs where there is bound to be problems. I've seen this with a number of RV owners... problem after problem after problem.​

Personally, even if I had the money to buy an expensive RV I would use the money to buy a quality cargo van and build my own. As I  am currently doing in my cargo van conversion, I would build to keep things simple. Water via gravity, bucket for a toilet etc. Keeping things simple means way less headaches and less time spent being frustrated by an RV that has costs thousands of dollars. I could be wrong, but it seems to me the RV industry is a bit of a rip off. I mean if you spend thousands of dollars on something shouldn't it work correctly?​

 

[akrvbob]

It's amazing how many RVs come off the showroom floor and they are crap right out the door. Shoddy construciton and bad engineering are rampant in the industry.

I had a friend who bought a top-end Arctic Fox slide-in camper. They are very expensive and have a great reputation; biggest piece of shit ever! He had it back to the factory three times under warranty and they half-assed the repairs and never made it right. He owned it for 5 years and in that time virtually rebuilt the whole thing. I mean literally tore it apart and rebuilt the structure so it would stop falling apart. It was a running joke about his build-it-himself camper project.

If I win the lottery (pretty unlikely since I don't buy tickets) I'd buy a Sportmsobile 4x4 van. Every one is custom, no two are alike so I'd have it built exactly the way I wanted it.

It'll be expensive, but it will all be top quality and last a very long time and they will stand behind it like they made it for their mama.
Bob

 

[Spirituallifetime]

I agree about rv's. All those complex systems, I like simplicity also. Simplicity saves time and money!

 

[Canine]

Agree. My brother just bought his 4th trailer, this one a 40K 5th wheel. He's had it back to the dealer twice for major things, slides failing and plumbing issues. He's fixed many of the trim pieces that are falling off, (stapled on every few feet). It's eye candy on the outside and shoddily built on the inside. He wouldn't ever be in a van or even a class B but he's sure paying a big price. And the depreciation on his last "new" 5th wheel was enormous... He lost more the first year than most of our members nicer conversions. But, to each his own... Glad his dollars keep America working, I'm not that much of a "patriot", sorry.

 

[jimindenver]

that's what I love about our trailer. It is a simple, and I mean simple three season, entry level trailer. You hear people that look at them complain about the things that make them light weight but you don't hear complaints from the owners. In fact I've seen few real complaints over the years.

What I have heard from sales and service people is that what makes them work is simple and less complicated. fewer gadgets means less wiring to run, less to hook up and less to go wrong. We don't have a slide and our systems are heat, cooling, fridge, water and hot water, lights and two fans. Nothing I can't rip out and fix myself. This is our fifth season and nothing has gone wrong, not bad for a $13.500 25 ft rig new, especially where we take it.

 

[Theadyn]

My sister owns an RV dealership. You'd be surprised at how much work my brother-in-law has to do on a BRAND NEW rig that is way too expensive. They should come out of the door working perfect, in my opinion. They just signed up with a new company that is three times the cost of their current rigs. I don't even want to know if these don't come out the door not every bit working perfectly.

 

[sushidog]

Some have little to no problems. Some are lemons, but most fall somewhere in-between. I only had one "warranty issue" with my Aliner that I fixed myself. The axle was mounted too far forward so that the tires would scrub the wheel well on big bumps when heavily loaded. My solution: I wanted the repair done right, so I did it myself. I simply removed the axle, cut a 3/4" slot in the axle carrier with a cut-off wheel on a grinder and bolted it back up. Also, occasionally, the toilet flapper valve on the Thetford cassette toilet gets off the track and won't seal completely. The culprit was a weak spring. My solution was to cut a short length of rubber hose to use in place of the spring (which eventually got flushed). It is stiffer, with just enough give to get it to seal properly - no more problems. Sometimes you just have to think outside the box and come up with a better solution than the engineers. But I agree with the overall sentiment. In the RV world it's buyer beware. Most are made as cheaply as the can to attract buyers with a lower price. It seems the better quality ones are more in the appointments, like a nice, plush interior rather than quality construction. The few sturdy, well insulated "full-time" rigs are much heavier, discouraging the buyer who want's to pull a giant trailer with a light duty TV. People always want the impossible (a giant, light weight trailer with all the creature comforts for little money - I'm no different.) and when businesses try to give them what they want rather than what they need, they often get neither. My little 6.5 ft x 15 ft camper retailed for over $15k new, back in 2006. Imagine what a bigger one built to these same standards would cost. There are well built, custom made campers, like the Spacecraft, that cost upwards of $100k - and though well made they are still not insulated that well compared to other 4 season campers I've seen. Heck there are used ones on their website that they are selling for over $100k! If you want quality and are not willing or able to build it yourself, you must pay others through the nose to do it or you. They sure are sweet though, especially the ones on the 18 wheeler chassis. Sure hard to park one at your local strip mall or downtown though. Different strokes for different folks.

Chip

 

[Almost There]

From what I've seen the newer ones are made quite shoddily.

My 80's something Winnebago Class A was actually built quite well...but then it didn't have slide-outs to fail, etc.

My biggest beef with all the TT and various Class motorhomes is that they're all built for family use. There is nothing on the market that is aimed at the single traveler.

I don't need bunk beds and couches that convert and dinettes that sit 4 and a second dinette etc. etc.

I haven't found a layout yet that I totally liked.

 

[corky52]

Almost There,
I agree with your point about the design of most RV's, made for families to live out of , not for single people to live in.

I stripped the interior of my rig back to the skin, including wiring, plumbing, and water system, and rebuilt to what I wanted.  I bought the rig because of overall size, a good house body, and a reasonable chassis.  None of the original systems met my needs and wants.

I wish somebody would market a wide-body fiberglass shell with only a door, no windows and no systems.

Corky

 

[concretebox]

I've had the same problem. I bought a 89 Class B RV and I've done a lot of work on it. That being said, every device as complex and complicated as an RV is going to have bugs after production. It's something consumers should expect buying brand new hardware. Moving into a new apartment building would mean similar "bugs" to work out in the first five years.

 

[masterplumber]

Being a contractor the above statement about an apartment building shouldn't be true either. If you pay for something it should work as advertised. Not that I have never had a product issue, but you can be sure I made it a priority to take care of immediately, and worked around the customer's schedule, not mine. Something I don't see happening in the automotive and RV industries. Shoot, I'm still waiting for the dealership to get the parts for a recall on my truck that I got the notice for back in February.

Even though I love Sportsmobiles like Bob, they can be better. While they are custom "assembled". They are built from mostly existing modules. Good quality modules no doubt, but you end up with double the wall thickness needed in cabinets where they come together, which adds weight. The cabinets, at least a few years ago, were also made out of veneered MDF. If they had been made from Baltic Birch they would be lighter and stronger. And that points out the problem with any company that is trying to maximize production to try and hit a price point. Compromises have to be made. Unfortunately in the RV industry in the last 20 years, the compromises far out weigh the cost savings achieved. And that is why I built my own.

 

[GotSmart]

I dont know how many times I have had to go and correct some bad work done by fly by night contractors. Why cant everyone have the work ethic that was "beat" into our generation. I could tell that Ben had it by the quality of the job he was doing on your bathroom. It takes just a little more time to do it right the first time.

Close enough for government work has become the standard of apathy.

 

[highdesertranger]

I agree. todays shoddy workmanship is one reason I will build my trailer from the axles up and because they don't build what I need. as far as the simplicity thing goes this is why I also drive a 1978 truck I like simple. I have seen far to many computer controlled vehicles broke down in the back country because of a stupid simple electronic glitch. let's face it if you don't have "it", "it" won't break. but if you do have "it" sooner or later "it" will break. highdesertranger

 

[ZoNiE]

Almost There,
I agree with your point about the design of most RV's, made for families to live out of , not for single people to live in.

I stripped the interior of my rig back to the skin, including wiring, plumbing, and water system, and rebuilt to what I wanted.  I bought the rig because of overall size, a good house body, and a reasonable chassis.  None of the original systems met my needs and wants.

I wish somebody would market a wide-body fiberglass shell with only a door, no windows and no systems.

Corky

Ditto! I asked several vendors to do this. No dice.

The problem is whether you are buying a $10K TT or a $200K Class A DP, you get exactly the same appliances and systems in both. We have a 2010 Nomad, actually a very good little trailer. We have modded it to our taste. We are looking at DP's and the Monaco's from the late 2000's (like 2007 Knight, for example) seem to be built pretty well. Cummins engine, better quality interior materials, and many now have big inverters and residential compressor refrigerators.

Our RV industry builds what the American public wants: cheap. People can afford $150-200 per month on a 10 year loan, so the industry gives them that. They have to make money, so cheaper materials and faster builds. Just watch a factory build video and you will see.

You also have to realize, a crappy RV rooftop air conditioning unit cost the same today as it cost in 1975. Where do you think the savings went? Materials. Paper thin metal. Styrofoam insulation, Chinese motors, etc. Same thing for all the other appliances and systems.

I looked at European Trailers when in Europe. Much better build, but 3-4X the price...We get what we pay for.

 

[compassrose]

Some have little to no problems. Some are lemons, but most fall somewhere in-between... In the RV world it's buyer beware. Most are made as cheaply as the can to attract buyers with a lower price. It seems  the better quality ones are more in the appointments, like a nice, plush interior rather than quality construction...

Chip

But for the prices they charge, the amount of repairs needs is a bit too much. David & I were in construction for many years. And at one point David was building the cabinets that went into well-built park model trailers in FL. The shoddy workmanship in the very pricey RV's was shocking. Since we always said we could do better, we got a bus to convert (and we remodeled the interior of our pop-up at least 3 times).

On one of those "see how fancy and expensive my RV is" shows, they were saying that an 18" high mosaic glass backsplash was $10,000. The 1 foot square sheets of glass tile sells for $2.98 - $17.97 (the stuff they used looked like some that sells for $14.98). $14 for a gallon of Acrylpro (it was a SMALL galley... mine is bigger). $10 for a quart of grout. $40 for 3/4"x4x8 plywood substrate (I doubt they use 3/4 but I will be generous with the thickness and the price and a single sheet would do the galley with material left over). The people on the show CLAIMED the tile was imported from Italy. My father was a tile setter for over 50 years. I grew up playing with tile. Just because it is imported from Italy does not mean it is expensive. The stuff I saw on the TV show looked like the same stuff Home Depot sells under the MS International brand. Most anything with marble in it is often imported from Italy. So, not counting labour, at retail the materials were $68. I doubt they paid a tile setter the going rate. And given the size, and assuming a slow tile setter, 2 hours, plus being uber generous, figure $200 labour. So $268 absolute max cost. And their markup is what?

I will take my self-converted skoolie any day. Even with a winning lottery ticket and factoring in no longer having David with his knowledge and expertise, I would still build my own. It's mine, suits me, built to my own warped specifications. While we may have blown past the somewhat unrealistic $6,000 budget (we knew that was too low but it helped us find low cost and more efficient ways of doing things), I know that I can finish this bus, with all the upgrades added, for $8,000. Even if I had bought EVERYTHING new, $10-11K not counting the shell. My bus shell only cost $1400. I figure our labour as $0. It's called "sweat equity". David once said that if he had done the conversion as a job, it would have taken only a few months rather than years. But it has all been done as we got the money.

 

[roadrunner]

I've had a few RV's a 34-foot motorhome, a couple of older travel trailers, a new travel trailer, and a Toyota mini-motorhome, and I'm just now working on my cargo van, but from what I can already tell and from my experiences with RVs over the years, I would take the van.

Why? Several reasons.

The van is simple, and I'm building it to suit my needs; it's not a pre-made box with things I don't need. No plumbing to break (I've had that happen in one MH and the trailer, right off the lot, and it's a "good" one. It was an easy fix, as it was an improperly made fitting, luckily nothing was damaged.)

Stealth -- I can park pretty much anywhere, and no park fees. Okay, so money isn't supposed to be an issue in this scenario, but honestly, I would rather have the freedom to be able to park wherever I want to, and not have to hunt for a park. Besides, why not save the money spent on park fees on an investment that will pay off in the future or allow me to stay places longer or visit more places each year? The same goes for the difference on gas prices, as many RVs tend to be huge gas hogs. Take the savings and put them to better use.

No large grey/black water tanks that have to be taken to a dump station. I can empty the port-a-potty in any restroom. Same for any grey water I accumulate, as it won't be much.

Easy maintenance; anything I put into the van I will have built/put in, so I will know it inside and out. Plus I'm trying to keep it simple and straightforward.

Easy to drive. I try to avoid backing up trailers, as it's a pain, and driving a 34-foot motorhome through small towns, construction zones, and traffic can be pretty stressful. A cargo van is a snap compared to any RV.

Pride of knowing I built it (the "home" part anyway), and anything I design is just that, designed by me for me.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Roadrunner, your reasons for van over RV are almost identical to mine.

 

[Canine]

I'll add my .02. When I had a family, we had three rv's. In 1995 we bought a 1972 travel trailer, 24 foot, standard quality. Then in 1997 a 1982 gm based 22 foot class c. Lastly, after being unhappy with old leaky junk, a new 8 foot truck camper with no bathroom. Now as a single older guy, I'd certainly not want to try and live in a city with any of those combinations, I'd stick out like a sore thumb, and would need a couple hundred a month for maintenance. The class c was the worst of the lot, both the house and the cassis suffered from a lot of breakdowns.

A van for a single person is enough room, and while not having the comforts of a furnace, kitchen and bath, it doesn't have the problems of them either. It's all in what it takes to keep you going. No vandweller ever does this for comfort, but for the benefits of economy, freedom and the lifestyle. So yes, f you gave me a used 32 foot class A or a 24 foot class C or a same sized TT, I'd not want it. Now if I still had small kids, of course I'd make a different choice.

 

[steveh2112]

i agree with most of the sentiment here, then i saw this
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/rvs/5010293005.html
it hard to justify paying the same for a stripped cargo van when you can get a full house on wheels for the same price.
can somebody convince me this is a bad idea vs. say a 2004 e250 van with 100-150k miles?
i realized the gas mileage on this would be awful but we are thinking of just staying in the CA sierras for 6months then parking it up for the winter. probably no more than 2000 miles in 6 months

 

[GotSmart]

Unless you can fix everything, buying a 25 year old manufactured unit is like playing with cactus. You will get stuck. That unit is a parker. (You park it and use it for the kids and inlaws). At 25 years and 89K miles it is due for $1,000 in tires, and everything flexible under the hood.

From the pictures I see wires and things that give me lots of flags.