Electricity for Noobs?

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We just added an addition and all the receptacles have the ground at the bottom except for the switched outlets (even the main house). This was done by a licensed electrician. Are you saying he and the inspector are wrong and not done to code?
 
B and C said:
We just added an addition and all the receptacles have the ground at the bottom except for the switched outlets (even the main house).  This was done by a licensed electrician.  Are you saying he and the inspector are wrong and not done to code?
Please don't put words in my mouth I didn't say. Did I say he & the inspector were wrong? No I didn't but I bet if you go to your local hospital if it's fairly new the grounds are done the right way UP. Different places have different codes. Some places have no code. If you live in a place that the best way isn't code yet more power to you but you know it's done right in the hospital so take a look & let me know. Here ag buildings have no building permits, codes or inspections only an $8 zoning permit so they add it to the tax bill but I overbuild anything I do & want it right.
 
I always put the ground so the outlets look like little faces. Makes the wall look friendly.
 
I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, that is why it was phrased as a question, to get clarification. So hospital code is to put the ground up, not normal applications is the way I read what you are saying and that the normal way is wrong even if it is code. Am I wrong in this?
 
Different places use different codes or versions of codes. so everyone is tight but the people who make the recepts & hospitals do the ground up so IMHO & our code says thats the best way but whatever works for your area.
 
What if the outlet is installed horizontally?

Point the ground north? Or east if the wall runs E-W?

I'm so confused!

:angel:
 
Meanwhile: Back to basics.

There are 12V basics, and 110V basics.
I suggest that you start learning about electric stuff for you car/van, by looking at the 12V basics first.

It has been suggested that you start by using some AA batteries, that is a good idea. But since the goal is learning about 12V stuff, why not use a 12V battery?

At 12V  it is possible to get sparks, but the voltage will not be dangerous. So you will not be injured if you touch both the positive wire and the negative wire. 12V is simply not enough volts to overcome the natural resistance of the body. 
If you put 12V plus and minus directly on your tongue, you are likely to feel it, but other than that, then 12V is considered a very safe voltage level.
 

But what about the sparks, that still is possible at 12V? 
Well, so long as you use a fuse, close to the plus side of the battery, the 12V sparks will not be dangerous!!!

So lesson one about 12V batteries: Use a fuse!!!!

Sparks happen if too many Amps suddenly run from plus to minus. Number of Amps can be limited by using a fuse.

Meaning, place a fuse as close to the plus side of a 12V battery as possible/practical, and only connect things to a 12V batter via the fuse, meaning the wire that comes out from the fuse.

When using a fuse, close to the plus of the battery, the 12V sparks will only be very short lived, as one of two things will happen. 
One: The fuse will blow, and no more power (current/ampere) will flow. And this will happen very quickly. 
Or Two: The capacitors (miniature batteries) in the devise you are connecting will charge in fractions of a second (causing the spark in the first place), but once charged there will no longer be a high energy flow, but only a low energy flow, and the sparks are done, and the fuse has easily survived this very short lived high energy flow. 

So, when fused, the 12V sparks can be considered harmless. 

You should however still not place your hands or fingers right at point of where the sparks happen, as the core of the spark itself is still very, very hot. 
But when fused, nothing else, but the spark it self, will even get warm. 



The second thing to know about 12V (and fuses) is:
That the fuse needs to match the thickness of the wire. Or rather the number on the fuse and the thickness of the wire needs to be matched.
Any wire will heat up, and possibly get burning hot (become a fire hazard), if too much power is being lead through it. The straight forward way to prevent over heating of a wire is, to use a suitable size fuse.

Charts that show recommended max Amp for any thickness wire, can be found many places on the internet.
Here is a link to one of them: https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

The number seen on a fuse tells you how many amps the fuse will easily let through.

For example, a 20 AWG wire has a recommended limit of 11 Amps, according to the chart.

Look at the top of the chart and locate the text "AWG gauge" and the text "Maximum amps for chassis wiring"
When finding "20" in the AWG column, it will say "11" in the "Maximum amps for chassis wiring" column.

So for a 20 AWG gauge wire, one would typically use a 5A, 7.5A or 10A  fuse.
Always use a fuse that is similar, or smaller, than the recommended "Maximum amps for chassis wiring" number.


Please note that I use "ampere", "amps" and "A" interchangeably. So the text "5A" is to be read as "5 ampere" or 5 amps"  
Ampere/amps/A is also called current.  Current basically means; how much is flowing. When talking electricity, how much electricity is flowing (the current of the electricity) is measured in ampere.  
Voltage is basically the ability to flow, or how much pressure there is. Ampere is a measure for how much actual flow happens. 
If needed we can revisit this at a later time. And could possibly draw parallels to water, and how water can be a different levels of pressure, resistance and flow.  That are very similar to how electricity works, flows and is limited. 


But back to 12V, batteries and fuses. 



A car fuse will react very fast if the wire is shorted. Which is exactly the reaction we want from a fuse.

On an advanced note, it should however be known, that fuses are typically slow, especially if they are run at or just above their stamped ampere values. A blade fuse, as used in a car/van, will typically allow up to 50% more amps, for hours and hours, before it blows. And during those hours it will get quite hot.
But that is for advanced knowledge about fuses.

All we need to know for now: It is wise to over-dimension wires. Or under-dimension fuses.  A 50% over/under dimension guarantees very cool wires, at all times. 




So:
- fuses are placed at the power source
- fuses protect wires (and connectors) from overheating
- the number seen on the fuse tells the number of amps that a fuse will comfortably allow
- it is a wise choice to slightly over-dimension wires. Or under-dimension the fuse for any given wire gauge.



In your house, the fuse panel is what the power inlet is connected to.  
The power inlet uses a very heavy gauge wire (very thick wire). If no fuses were used in the fuse panel, this same very heavy gauge would need to go to every outlet, and every outlet would need to be able to handle the max amps that goes to your house, so perhaps 200 Amp.
This is not practical. So a fuse panel is installed, close to the inlet of the big heavy power inlet.
After the fuse panel, thinner wires can be used. Because the fuses in the fuse panel will protect the thinner wires from overheating.

Same thing in a car or van.
The wire connecting to the battery is very thick, and it leads to a fuse panel in the car/van. After the fuse panel, it is possible to use thinner wires, going to every power use.


Note about Wire and Fuses for a house battery.
If you have several things being connected to your house battery, it is wise to use a large fuse very close to the battery, and then use a fuse panel to distribute power to the different devices/lamps/12V outlets that you have in your house-on-wheels.



Is this the kind of basic information you have been looking for?
Did it answer any of your questions?

Did I use too many technical words or frases?


This book/booklet might also be of interest to you: https://www.amazon.com/Mobile-Solar-Power-Made-yourself/dp/1546567119
 
there is no code according to the NEC(National Electric Code) for a hospital or otherwise about the orientation of a plug. I looked it up.

that youtube video of that person repeatedly trying to short out the ill fitting plug is a joke, how many times did they try before they were successful? when a plug flops around like the one in the video then either the plug or the outlet or both is worn out. a plug should fit tight.

flipping the outlet over is not fixing the problem. one or the other is still worn out. fix the problem.

if you want to disagree with me fine, then post up the actual code. don't argue.

highdesertranger
 
I'm with HDR on this 120 volt ac outlet thing. They are happier if they look like little faces.

I would bet beer and pizza that 99% of the USA's city's building codes regulate by reference to the National Building Code. That is; pretty much the same building code wherever you build.

MrAlvinDude has put some time into explaining 12 volt dc stuff. Thanks. I tend to use larger fuses, up to the rating of the wire. Fuses are little resistors and cause voltage drop. More for smaller ampere fuse than large. I like to keep drop low, especially on charging circuits.
Rod Collins, the Marine How To expert has a test result about such a problem. If you are on a computer, here; https://marinehowto.com/fusing-termination-voltage-drop/
 
Weight said:
 I tend to use larger fuses, up to the rating of the wire. Fuses are little resistors and cause voltage drop. More for smaller ampere fuse than large. I like to keep drop low, especially on charging circuits.
Rod Collins, the Marine How To expert has a test result about such a problem. If you are on a computer, here; https://marinehowto.com/fusing-termination-voltage-drop/

That was an excellent read! Thank you! I've always liked fuses that 'just' protect the wire, it seemed like that was the best thing, I was unaware of that voltage drop...

It also seems I need to get a better set of crimpers for the connections, I use those crimping/stripping pliers. I'm don't have a lot of money to spend on an occasional use tool but I'll bet I can do better. Any recommendations?  
I'll probably look at a low cost pair of ratcheting crimpers that will do up to 10g/yellow connectors.
 
do you have a link to the actual code? I am in CA and I have never heard of this nor has my boss. in fact we just did all new electric in an apartment on Monday, brought it up to code with GFI's, etc. we did the grounds down except for the outlets that were controlled by wall switches which we did ground up. this is the way we have always done it. highdesertranger
 
I don't have a link to the code. That is money well not spent by me. ;) Just what Mike Sokol post on RVtravel magazine He also makes an argument for ground up.
 
highdesertranger said:
there is no code according to the NEC(National Electric Code) for a hospital or otherwise about the orientation of a plug.  I looked it up.

that youtube video of that person repeatedly trying to short out the ill fitting plug is a joke,  how many times did they try before they were successful?  when a plug flops around like the one in the video then either the plug or the outlet or both is worn out.  a plug should fit tight.

flipping the outlet over is not fixing the problem.  one or the other is still worn out.  fix the problem.

if you want to disagree with me fine,  then post up the actual code.  don't argue.

highdesertranger
I agree with High Desert Ranger.  I am a electrician, have been in the field since 1984.  Even spent a few years as a State Electrical Inspector in Minnesota.  I am unaware of any reference in the National Electric Code or (NFPA 70 or NEC) from 1984 - 2017 editions that specify that a 15 amp 125 volt receptacle (Nema 5-15R) shall be installed in any specific orientation. Ground up or down, left or right. 

Now if you can find in the receptacle manufactures instructions or UL listing and labeling that the manufacturer specifically states that the receptacle shall/must be installed in a certain orientation, then the NEC states that the manufactures listing must be followed.  2017 NEC 110.3(B) Installation and Use.

Also remember that the NEC is a minimum standard. Some states or cities have additions, subtractions to it and some do not follow the most current edition.

Also in Minnesota a Inspector cannot condemn any installation without a specific code reference in writing.

I've been doing this a long time and I am still learning and reading the code book as well as technical journals.

Sorry for the long post.
 
MrAlvinDude said:
Is this the kind of basic information you have been looking for?
Did it answer any of your questions?

Did I use too many technical words or frases?
Sorry that I was away for a while. The thread kinda quickly went off on a tangent and I gave up hope of hearing a recommendation for someone at my level. Yes, your post contained several things that help me sorta get some concepts. I look forward to checking out the book you recommended. Thank you so much.
 
Weight said:
110 volt outlets are not that dangerous if you are not wet.

I can't explain how we survived as kids when my cousins and I found out we could get a good buzzing shock by ringing the door bell  after climbing out of the swimming pool.  >.<;;   Probably saved by the rubber welcome matt.  
 
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