Electric powered van

[tx2sturgis]

Dang electric car on the wrong side of the road....must be reverse polarity....

 

[MrNoodly]

Here's one to look forward to:

https://jalopnik.com/this-startups-electric-van-is-a-packaging-triumph-1838445687

 

[grummy]

Spiff tried to explain this.  there is no big conspiracy with people/companies buying up patents and then sitting on them.  that is impossible,  but it's a favorite talking point of people pushing this nonsense.  a patent is a open public record,  any body can look at it.

Sure... all the lame basic and easy stuff is public, but NOT those that fall under the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951. There are indeed HIDDEN patents, and according to most people who have researched them, they pretty much all fall under "Energy" and "Defense" applications. This is not hard to research, and there is NO Shortage of witnesses or inventors themselves that currently have an invention with government "Secrecy Orders" keeping the inventor quiet.

Various reports will claim between 3000 and 6000 energy related patents are indeed under lock and key by your government. Don't think for a minute that they wouldn't hide a miracle engine/powerplant. They would because it would disrupt an entire planets economy (which usually in turns means millions die for some reason)

Regarding other portions of discussion in this thread related to overunity or perpetual motion, there is no doubt that some people have discovered at least promising levels of perpetual motion... Even the most basic Bedini Wheel can be run near perpetual by swapping two batteries back and forth, one being charged while the other is being used.... perpetual until a battery actually fails. Some MIT classes have done it, even using vegetables as batteries. Is it "perpetual" even if you have to swap in a new potato now and then? I don't know... you tell me if the inconvenience would be worth it, or, do we scream: Thats not perpetual motion then ! ?

There are but two ABSOLUTES we have to contribute to potential perpetual motion.

1. Magnetism. As unscientific as Edward Leedskalnin seemed to be, he knew something 99.9% don't about magnetism. No one has been able to prove or disprove what he did in Florida in the 1940's. Look him up. Great read. I wish I could have met him. Again, NO ONE has been able to prove he or his methods were any sort of hoax.

His book explained one thing that made me really think... that there are MILLIONS of atoms continuously in motion around a magnet running between the north and south poles at all times, and running vigorously. In essence, a simple magnet IS ALREADY a perpetual motion machine.

There are numerous individuals who currently claim to have built a perpetual or semi perpetual magnetic motors. I believe it is actually possible. If you don't, have you not played with Neodymium magnets ? They are insane. They have built in constant power. All they need is opposed fields mechanically timed to interact.... But of course, Hitachi already has laid claim to have built the most successful one... WHERE or WHERE is that "Patent" ? Go find it and reproduce it. MANY "whistleblowers" have claimed it is an absolute. Given what I pointed out about magnets above, why would anyone doubt that ?

Strangely. things patented do not actually have to work.... Look at Microsoft "Windows" ! LOL !  Seriously, you can patent a concept as also proven by Microsoft with their brain communication patents.

Then you have the other absolute constant energy active on each and every one of us...

2. GRAVITY. There already have been numerous "water wheel" and pump arrangements created that come close. Perhaps the most famous was Johann Ernst Elias Bessler. He lived in the early 1700's and did everything he could to prove that his perpetual motion machine was not a hoax. But there was no shortage of naysayers in his time either reminding everyone else of the "laws of physics". Yet, his story,... is quite interesting and certainly very possible. We already have perpetual motion in gravity. It is a constant that has not ever, at least yet, stopped functioning and lucky for us it hasn't. No reason this constant could not be used for perpetual motion.

My personal thoughts on this entire matter surround my belief that we were created by an intelligent being (and you can feel free to believe anything you wish). But, in my mind, when we finally figure out overunity, it will end up being something so simple, so right in front of us all the time, that it will be upsetting and mind blowing at the same time.

No back to the topic of Electric Vans..... Nope. Not able to be efficient, smart, "green" or affordable. UPS has invested a great deal of money to find ways to make tree huggers happy and their costs to go down. Their findings were clear. Convert back to GASOLINE on 90% of their local route trucks and stick with Diesel for the over the road workhorses. Diesel is a polluter no doubt. Just watch, the urea they use to control it will eventually also be a "pollution" in itself. Gasoline is pretty darn clean in todays cars..... drill baby drill. There is no shortage, there never will be. It's a product of the earth. Drill a hole here and there... 20 miles deep, find BILLIONS of gallons.. that isn't from rotting dinosaurs and leaves... they lied to you.


are Gravity and Magnetism.

 

[highdesertranger]

grummy we are not the only country on earth, are all governments suppressing this technology?

as far as perpetual motion I will stick to science not alchemy. but in this day and age I to often see science being ignored or abused so your statements don't surprise me.

highdesertranger

 

[MrNoodly]

If the math is right, they are $7,000 each. Do you think we can get them for the same price?

Sure, if you invest $700M.

 

[grummy]

>>>> are all governments suppressing this technology?

Not all have to "suppress" via tangible methods. Today, it is plenty easy to just insert the "crazy" narrative into anyone's success story and you can instantly have blind masses calling absolute truths a "hoax" or conspiracy. Welcome to Twitter and Reddit.

And too, there is no shortage of misleadings when an organized/politically motivated media floods the airwaves with falsehoods for that added push. People with their eyes open can clearly see that in today's politics, and sadly, where there are politics, you find "Science" sucking at its teat to whatever benefit it may gain (insert Tesla here).

But honestly, what really is "Science" ? Is it not simply "this is what we think NOW" ? and it trickles down to each household as 'some really smart people TOLD US ... or, Look, "this is how it is"', and people fully believed that and also allowed their kids to believe it. I have not personally double checked or performed what we have been told, have you ? Of course not.

I'm and old man...  I will not deny that "Science" itself already has thousands of years of blunders and inaccuracies only corrected after enough time went by to prove once thought truths to be nothing but fallacies. I know for a fact that there were numerous "Science" things my great grandfather held dearly that simply were not true. I'd be ignorant only to think that all "Science" in my personal here and now are 100% true.

Sadly, and especially popular in our era, we clearly have 'supposed' Scientific findings, created solely to benefit someone's political necessities. There is your world's crime. But you can not eliminate greed, now can you.

I'll pretty much stick to what I said. Gravity and Magnetism are perhaps the ONLY truly reliable "energies". They do not go behind clouds, they do not require the winds to blow. They certainly could hold the answer to the man's quest for unlimited energy. I do fully believe after the many years of reading and research I have done, that stand alone magnetic motors do exist and work now (and they violate no Scientific theories).

So called "Fossil Fuel" (lie), the concepts of both of it's good and the bad aspects, are completely wrangled in the claws of politics and subsequently the science we are supposed to rely on. Doesn't matter what people do or demand, it will take quite a bit of time to pass if it ever does break free because we practically have an endless supply of it.

Please re-read my comments. No where in my comments have I ignored or abused science... no where.

Now regards again Electric Cars ? They can be awesome. I've played with many homebuilt electric powered fun vehicles over my lifetime. I have nothing but admiration specifically for Tesla and their obvious advancements. It is clearly amazing what 4.9 BILLION tax dollar loans can accomplish. Too bad they are losing focus on electric transportation.

Still, pushing a Square cement block you want to live in down the road in any affordable fashion is likely 50+ years down the road without some major, major battery technologies, some of which just might have to go against some previously held Science normals. Maybe the impossible magnetic motor patents will suddenly no longer be impossible by then.

 

[highdesertranger]

you are getting science all mixed up. From wiki,


"A perpetual motion machine is a hypothetical machine that can do work indefinitely without an energy source. This kind of machine is impossible, as it would violate the first or second law of thermodynamics."

the key word in that statement is "LAW". a scientific law has been proven it is not a hypothesis or a theory it is fact. are you trying to say the laws of thermodynamics are somehow faked or don't apply or something else.

people who say they have invented a perpetual motion machine are charlatans. all these machines can all be disproven, I don't care what you saw on youtube.

highdesertranger

 

[B and C]

There will always be people wanting to believe the snake oil salesman's pitch. If such things existed, there would be some country (read china) somewhere producing it and making a killing.

 

[grummy]

you are getting science all mixed up.  From wiki,


"A perpetual motion machine is a hypothetical machine that can do work indefinitely without an energy source. This kind of machine is impossible, as it would violate the first or second law of thermodynamics."

the key word in that statement is "LAW".  a scientific law has been proven it is not a hypothesis or a theory it is fact.  are you trying to say the laws of thermodynamics are somehow faked or don't apply or something else.

people who say they have invented a perpetual motion machine are charlatans.  all these machines can all be disproven,  I don't care what you saw on youtube.

highdesertranger

First off, wikipedia is NOT an accurate source of data and they admit that in their own documentation (see their commitment to accuracy documentation).

While as you have quoted, they claim "Perpetual Motion" means work "WITHOUT AN ENERGY SOURCE", other sources do not make that claim. Encyclopedia Brittanica (not advocating them) claims: "Perpetual motion, the action of a device that, once set in motion, would continue in motion forever, with no additional energy required to maintain it."


Making CLEAR that an ENERGY is used to run it to start with. AS a reminder, I pointed out two very well known to "Science" energys, Magnetism and Gravity. There is no argument there.

After I pointed out that YES, there ARE hidden patents, patent applications and also gag orders on people who have submitted inventions for patents, and research will show that many are ENERGY RELATED.

How many people realize that 100mpg was not only a dream but completely available in the European VW Lupo. Well, at least up until someone somewhere said ahem... "we can't have that".

In America it was the 58mpg Geo Metro.... suddenly they forgot how they could offer a car like that. There is so much we the people have been restricted from.. yet a few here claim everything is completely available and "CHINA" somehow could just duplicate even the above two cars and sell it in America and make millions. WRONG... or they would be !

In 1947, The shell oil competition was turning 200+ mpg in HEAVY cars like those from Studebaker and Hudson. Why is CHINA not replicating this now ?  Some people sniff at the 1973 competition where a modified Opel achieved 376mpg because it only went 25 mph to do it. What ? You would not be happy with say, 150mpg at 55 mph ? I mention these things to get people to stop and think about what they are saying. None of the above is "snake oil". It's not perpetual motion either.. but I've never demanded that, especially something that uses no energy whatsoever.

Do you realize that the Federal government restricts EVERYONE under penalty of law from, "Superheating" gasoline prior to burning it in a vehicle. Those of us who fully understand the value of superheated steam (above 750 degrees) knows exactly the value of superheated gasoline.

Snake oil salesmen ? Who decides. I certainly can not criticize the likes of Edward Leedskalnin and his claims to magnetically shearing massive rocks. I can not claim any absolute that Stan Meyer's water car really did not work (It disappeared while his family was attending his poisioning at the hospital). How about Eugene Mallove ? Are you sure his cold fusion discoveries were snake oil ? Do you realize what happened to him ?

Lets consider Dimitri Petronov. Are you prepared to bet your life that his plasma batteries were a hoax ? Maybe the nay sayers can tell us all WHERE he disappeared to ? Turns out that there are a number of Thorium plasma battery inventors just turning up murdered in numerous countries of this world. Note to inventor... if you have a working thorium plasma battery system in your home... just use it and TELL NO ONE. The ones that won't believe you are not a threat, but those who know what you have will kill you.

Why not look up Rory Johnson. His magnatron motor did not follow the known "Scientific Laws" as we know and understand them. Again, just because we have a current understanding of a Scientific LAW now does not necessarily mean it is 100% true. Poor Rory... the U.S. Department of Energy placed a restraining order on him and prohibited him from moving foward with his Magnet, deuterium and gallium powerplant.... FOI has even produced government communications between ... well, why not you do some research. BTW... he too is dead. Lots of our inventors are going dead.

Coincidence ? Snake oil ? Charlatans ? All of them ? Really ? Thousands of their stories complete lies ? I'm not a fool. Cars NOW could be getting 200mpg... they just will not allow it. If they were interested in doing so, you would still have the Lupo !

People sure have been brain trained well to ignore the realities around them. Sad really.

 

[highdesertranger]

I am reminded of P.T.Barnum. highdesertranger

 

[Elbear1]

You know its TRUE if theres sporadic CAPITALIZATION. If it werent for the GOVERNMENT not letting jim bob BOIL GASOLINE or make meth with radioactive thorium BATTERIES!

 

[Elbear1]

But honestly, what really is "Science" ? Is it not simply "this is what we think NOW" ? and it trickles down to each household as 'some really smart people TOLD US 

I'm and old man...  I will not deny that "Science" itself already has thousands of years of blunders and inaccuracies 

So as you sit there under a light on a computer or phone on the internet communicating about energy conspiracies with people hundreds or thousands of miles away instantly trying to say science is just an appeal to authority and because new theories develop with new observations that nothing can be trusted. All while trying to use quasi-science to prove your conspiracies (of which are theories that can be wrong themselves) without a dent of irony. Just so were clear and not just seeing manic narcissism.

Its like the religious zealot running to the ER when theyre having a heart attack.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

So talk about conspiracy theories!

You are trying to make us believe that our fierce economic and political competitors would not jump at the chance to patent these suppressed inventions to gain a huge advantage and cripple the US?  Why?

China, Iran, Japan, Europe have just as smart engineers and scientists as we do, the laws of physics don't change from country to country.  So why hasn't China or Singapore, et. al., who desperately want to reduce air pollution in their big cities not jumped all over this?

 

[grummy]

Ok, ok... I've been lying to you. You caught me.

I'll just recap the version of FACTS the people want to hear:

1. ALL patents are completely public. China is making everything that can be possibly made and making a killing.

2. Their is no Invention Secrecy Act. There are absolutely no patents or inventions that are under lock and key. Neither government nor oil conglomerate has any secrets whatsoever.

3. No one has ever died or even been threatened over an invention. Everyone just loves everyone and because there is no greed in this world, there is and never was a reason to threaten anyone much less kill them.

4. Our Military has no secrets, certainly not related to energy.

5. NASA likewise has no secrets, certainly not since we shared a space station.

6. The Lupo really only got 30 mpg. China is not interested in making another 30mpg car because they are already importing too many 30mpg cars into the states now.... (I guessed at this one).

7. There were no Shell Oil sponsored fuel economy contests with amazing inventive techniques. All documentation of such just exists to fool the gullible.

8. There is no 376 mpg 1959 Opel. All MYTH. Can't be done because there are scientific laws or something or another.

9. "Autumnt", yes, you were high on something when you saw that snake oil salesman's car because everyone knows that the term perpetual motion means something that uses NO Energy whatsoever.

10. If by chance someone DID invent a miraculous source of energy, there would be absolutely zero push back because oil tycoons and governments do not rely on the many aspects of income generation from it.

11. There will never be a Battery made out of anything we already have never used or tried already because we can not violate currently held scientific laws. (BTW, the earth is flat and everything revolves around it).

12. P.T. Barnum was the last dynamo on the planet and the closest thing we have seen to "perpetual motion".. or something along those lines... I'd need to brush up on that one.'


aND, nOW I am going to RUn OfF to the ER becAUSE I think I am HAVing a HeArT Attack... or something like that.

 

[Elbear1]

What could be done if not the GOVERNMENT, is travel via small lightweight solar powered buggies. Nomads could easily build an enclosed 3 or 4 bicycle wheel, hub powered, bicycle trailer pulling enclosed nomadic vehicle that goes ~30mph with just 400-600w of solar and small battery bank.

Theres no need to froth about a 60mpg opel from 60 years ago.

 

[grummy]

Just to correct the record, the "Opel Myth" was from 1973 and consists of 376 mpg.

While I completely and fully comprehend and support your concept of "enclosed 3 or 4 bicycle wheel, hub powered, bicycle trailer pulling enclosed nomadic vehicle that goes......."

I don't think that is going to work out to well for Amazon delivering toiletries to the masses.

In our current world, it could barely exist at all. We would first need a near full extinction level event, and then without government and also without the need for delivered toiletries, build those "lightweight solar powered buggies"... from scavenged bits.... right up until we run out of the remaining parts to build them with.

Better yet, in that environment, we could just research any of the many public patents (they are always laid out as full scale plans you know), and build hot fusion "pellet powered" cars.

It would run our entire lifetime without the need for "Additional Energy" (not to be confused with running on wiki concept "No Energy). Should be plenty of "pellets" and protection gear leftover laying around.

LOL... the whole thread is pretty much LOL at this point. It's ok. I don't mind being called "a nut".....

 

[Elbear1]

if only someone came along an re-invented that opel. the world would be revolutionized. Youd think if it were done once someone could do it again. I mean we put a man on the moon in a stanly kubrick studio afterall.

 

[highdesertranger]

don't forget the chem trails, area 51, mermaids, nessy, and of course unicorns. I would have included big foot but they are real, LOL I know this for sure. one thing, I am sure glad I don't fret over all this nonsense. highdesertranger

 

[Elbear1]

Life must be so easy when youre a SHEEP

 

[grummy]

if only someone came along an re-invented that opel. ....

Well, it does not need to be "re-invented", it still exists.   http://www.376mpg.com/[/SIZE][/size]

And so does it's SHELL OIL documented history. So does the similar history exist of hundreds of other contestants that took rather heavy vehicles and obtained flat out impressive mpg numbers.

From what I gather, those who have responded in this thread would not be able to actually tell anyone WHY such technology is not being applied now. You know... why those "chinese" have not jumped in there and made "a killing". No need to answer as I DO know why, and there is more than one reason.

Now while everyone is out there looking for the holy grail of energy solutions with the electric car and whatnot, It's not my fault that MSNBC or CNN didn't tell you guys that technologies have existed for years that could have cut fossil fuel use substantially (not that I really care much about that - I don't worship at the alter of GW "Science"). Can you imagine 150mpg at 65 mph ? Well, some of you, probably not. Even though you talk "Science", you want to ignore existing reality>

And get this... superheated gasoline (admittedly very dangerous un-contained) does not pollute ! Well, not anywhere near to the scale current methods do. It's more along the lines of pollution you would get from a 1925 DOBLE (external combustion) engine where fuel burns comp......... never mind.

I'd tell you guys why but it might just get you all wound up some more, causing you to come up with more nut job references aimed at me and the truths I have shared. Honestly, I did not think you would poo-poo the proven Shell Oil competition data. Oh well.

I did not come here to make anyone a believer of anything... I came because telling people that "all patents are public" with the connotation that all inventions are public is just mis-leading.

I know a lot about patents.... I've worked on a few. What some may not know is that they are always modelled after hundreds of thousands before, to both lock down a specific group of ideas such that you could defend a claim in the court of law, AND, cause the eventual reader to not exactly know what your even patenting nor how even to reproduce it...

Don't believe me ? Wanna take a challenge ? I could go dig up a patent or two, and then have you duplicate it exactly as the originator intended. You will fail.

Ok, ok... I'll stop. Seriously, I'm just confusing you guys now. It's obvious that patents and energy things are not everyone's cup of tea. And that's ok. I see some are pretty busy, tied up with the coming up of things to attack the things I say, even though true.

It's good to be a moderator... See comments about: "chem trails, area 51, mermaids, nessy, and of course unicorns".