Eco Friendly Alternatives

[Gr8ful]

What about all the other things made of oil? Just google "things made of petroleum oil" & they say 6000 products. So what will we make those from? What about plastic? Also one of the biggest polluters is the huge container ships bringing crap from other countries we don't make here anymore. Here's the breakdown on the U.S..

• The percentage share of total U.S. petroleum consumption by major end-use sectors in 2022 was:
• transportation66.6%
• industrial27.5%
• residential2.8%
• commercial2.5%
• electric power0.6%

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/use-of-oil.php

 

[user 22017]

What about all the other things made of oil? Just google "things made of petroleum oil" & they say 6000 products. So what will we make those from? What about plastic? Here's the breakdown.

• The percentage share of total U.S. petroleum consumption by major end-use sectors in 2022 was:
• transportation66.6%
• industrial27.5%
• residential2.8%
• commercial2.5%
• electric power0.6%

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/use-of-oil.php

Substitutes will be used. I try to avoid plastic when possible. Instead of ordering plastic containers for leftovers, I ordered glass ones with bamboo lids. Instead of plastic water bottles, I ordered metal. Instead of plastic flower pots, there is clay and metal. Bob Wells often pushes plastic stuff... wish he would switch over to non-plastic, because ppl buy what he recommends.

Industry will find replacements.

Have you read up on PFAs?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/othe...rdiovascular-diseases-finds-study/ar-BB1jIqPJ

 

[Gr8ful]

Big polluters: One massive container ship equals 50 million cars. 15 of the world's biggest ships may now emit as much pollution as all the world's 760m cars! The world 90,000 cargo ships. Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world. Good read below, it's a little dated & shipping is using a better grade of diesel as they used the dregs but are still using as much fossil fuel. The 2nd link is from 2022. Look at the 3rd link, it has a graph that shows it will be 2040 just to return to 2000 level.
https://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/

https://www.vox.com/recode/22973218/container-shipping-industry-climate-change-emissions-maersk

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport

 

[Happy Camper]

I will say this. I was all for trying the paper straws and even bought a few different types. But it does add that licking the envelope taste to your drink. And you'd better finish your drink within a certain amount of time.

Tried metal straws. Good. Not so fun to store after you use it for your fast food drink. I definitely prefer metal to paper straws outside of the cleaning and storing aspect.

Hoping they can come up with a better straw that is disposable and is cheap.

 

[Happy Camper]

In another thread there was discussion about plastic products and other items that aren't the best overall from an Eco friendly perspective.

It seems like a lot of nomads are trying out, or currently using, alternative products or items minimize their impact on the environment.

It seemed like a discussion worthy of it's own thread. Please share some of the items you're using or looking into for these reasons.

Example. I tried paper straws. They work, but had some downsides. I have also used metal straws. Better for me. But still have some downsides such as storage and cleaning.

 

[wanderlust]

What about all the other things made of oil?

I mentioned it before. Biology and genetic engineering can create algae which produce butanol. Diesel oil. We already produce huge amount of ethanol to add to gas. But it needs to be distilled, again using energy. Butanol can be skimmed from the top of growing vat.
They have algae, they know the gene. If the money used to subsidy oil drilling went to butanol algae, we maybe already had it.

Such butanol is carbon-negative (is made from CO2 in the air, water and the sunlight) and can be used anywhere we use fossil fuel.

Genetic engineering can do amazing stuff. Like the COVID vaccine - after 20 years of research, resulting in just small advances, they did in less than 2 years what was considered impossible. Using old school methods, creating a good vaccine takes 4-10 years. Because Fed spent $10B to make it happen. I am not sure how much you understand the biology of the COVID vaccine, but it is ridiculously clever and same approach can be used for other diseases. For a cool $1B each.

 

[RonDean]

I'm hearing a bit of "what about that-ism" in this thread and which has nothing to do with converting from ICEs to EVs. That is OK by me, but I am just saying "I see it." We already either recognize the need to change or we do not.

As far as other petroleum uses, unless it's to make something like an artificial heart and possible save a life, I wish we would leave ALL petroleum in the ground. As it is they can now detect microplastics in all of our bodies. A recent review indicates that microplastics are transported to the whole body through blood circulation, and the existence of microplastics are found in 15 human biological components, such as the spleen, liver, colon, lung, feces, placenta, breastmilk, etc. And the whole recycling thing is a scam to make consumers responsible instead of the companies that make the stuff or use the stuff. With only 9% of annual plastic waste recycled, the myth that we can recycle our way out of a mounting plastic pollution crisis doesn't add up. Around 85% of plastic packaging worldwide ends up in landfills. I GUESS that's better than in our bodies!

 

[tx2sturgis]

Thanks for starting this thread, Happy Camper, I have moved some relevant posts into it.

 

[Happy Camper]

I like the idea of algae made fuel that's carbon neutral. Makes sense. It's just a matter of if it makes money, otherwise no matter how good it is, it won't get pushed by anyone.

Right now a lot of the money is on Evs, and rightfully so. But now that the money is invested in EV, you're hearing a lot of what the EV crowd complained about when EV was much newer regarding other possibly competing tech in the vehicle space. And it's coming from the EV crowd, unfortunately. Can't be done. Not efficient. Where will you recharge/fill it? It's not feasible. Science says. It's not actually clean. That's how far it'll go? EV is better because of... Etc.

In fact, they have algae that can eat plastics. Now make the output fuel, and it's wins all across the board.

But only if it makes money. Eco and climate activists will always beat the drum for their causes. But nothing happens unless they can show the money how to make more money pushing for their agenda. And they have in some ways.

Now let's get some plastic eating algae gas in my car!!

 

[RonDean]

I like the idea of algae made fuel that's carbon neutral. Makes sense. It's just a matter of if it makes money, otherwise no matter how good it is, it won't get pushed by anyone.

Right now a lot of the money is on Evs, and rightfully so. But now that the money is invested in EV, you're hearing a lot of what the EV crowd complained about when EV was much newer regarding other possibly competing tech in the vehicle space. And it's coming from the EV crowd, unfortunately. Can't be done. Not efficient. Where will you recharge/fill it? It's not feasible. Science says. It's not actually clean. That's how far it'll go? EV is better because of... Etc.

In fact, they have algae that can eat plastics. Now make the output fuel, and it's wins all across the board.

But only if it makes money. Eco and climate activists will always beat the drum for their causes. But nothing happens unless they can show the money how to make more money pushing for their agenda. And they have in some ways.

Now let's get some plastic eating algae gas in my car!!

HEY! I'm in the EV crowd and I think you may be attributing words and ideas that were not spoken. I haven't seen what you are referring to and I'd personally be totally happy with ANY carbon neutral and pollution free algae or any other fuel. If the algae eats plastic or any other undesirable substances (like people that disagree with me) as well - I'd also be pleased. Maybe that's what The Blob was looking for?

Instead, maybe you are talking about EV manufacturers? If so, then I think we should direct our ire at ALL manufacturers that only want to push what makes each of them money. It's a pretty widespread occurrence.

 

[Gr8ful]

You can also turn waste plastic into fuel now such as gasoline or diesel which is better than filling the landfills with it. https://www.power-technology.com/fe...the plastic is,, second-life plastic products.

 

[user 22017]

You can also turn waste plastic into fuel now such as gasoline or diesel which is better than filling the landfills with it. https://www.power-technology.com/features/plastic-pyrolysis-fuel-from-waste-plastic/#:~:text=Through pyrolysis, the plastic is,, second-life plastic products.

Which is worse for the planet?

 

[Happy Camper]

HEY! I'm in the EV crowd and I think you may be attributing words and ideas that were not spoken. I haven't seen what you are referring to and I'd personally be totally happy with ANY carbon neutral and pollution free algae or any other fuel. If the algae eats plastic or any other undesirable substances (like people that disagree with me) as well - I'd also be pleased. Maybe that's what The Blob was looking for?

Instead, maybe you are talking about EV manufacturers? If so, then I think we should direct our ire at ALL manufacturers that only want to push what makes each of them money. It's a pretty widespread occurrence.

You are one person. And overall seem to have a generally balanced view.

But, there are EV fanboys and girls that become true believers in the one thing. And a lot of them. It happens a lot in other areas as well. But I have seen many a comment section with otherwise normal people just killing anything non EV. Just like years ago it was anything non hybrid.

 

[user 22017]

You are one person. And overall seem to have a generally balanced view.

But, there are EV fanboys and girls that become true believers in the one thing. And a lot of them. It happens a lot in other areas as well. But I have seen many a comment section with otherwise normal people just killing anything non EV. Just like years ago it was anything non hybrid.

Where are you reading? lol

 

[Gr8ful]

Here's a company turning plastic into fuel https://www.plastic2oil.com/site/ho...providing economic and environmental benefits.

 

[Happy Camper]

Where are you reading? lol

I read just about everywhere. Left and right leaning sites. Scientific articles. I consume at least 20 news articles a day. And I'll always read the comments section to see a few things.

One is to gauge the readership of the publication and how the majority feel about various subjects. Every publication leans into their core readership. And core readership often is what you find in the comments section.

Another is to see if there are other viewpoints in the comments, and whether they are welcomed or attacked. That, in addition to the other, gives me a good idea on how tolerant the readership is.

The less tolerant the readership of a publication, the more the writing leans into the narrative that fits the readership.

That goes for every publication out there. That's not to say a fair and balanced article can't be found on these sites. It's just more of a rarity.

Most of the time, if the subject matter doesn't fit the narrative, it's just not reported on. And alternately, if it fits the narrative of the publication and readership, there will be many articles and opinion pieces.

So yes, I read a lot of articles and a lot of comments sections every day. And believe it or not, there are those that Believe anything other than EV tech is inferior and shouldn't be pursued because it's a waste of resources and time, etc.

And anyone saying otherwise just doesn't understand the science, or is ignorant. Willingly or otherwise.

 

[Gr8ful]

High Costs, Greenlash Hits Europe​ nikolai g. wenzel, the daily economy​ The European Green Deal was implemented in 2019, with a series of environmental measures, such as cutting CO2 emissions by 55 percent by 2030. But since the summer of 2023, the Green Deal has been put on regulatory pause, as the EU faces a “greenlash” against its environmental policies from Dutch farmers, the German populace, and the Italian and Polish governments. While the Green Deal is a sacred cow for the EU elite, it remains to be seen how it will play with the upcoming European parliamentary elections this June.

 

[BlueMarkOhio]

What about all the other things made of oil? Just google "things made of petroleum oil" & they say 6000 products. So what will we make those from? What about plastic? Also one of the biggest polluters is the huge container ships bringing crap from other countries we don't make here anymore. Here's the breakdown on the U.S..

• The percentage share of total U.S. petroleum consumption by major end-use sectors in 2022 was:
• transportation66.6%
• industrial27.5%
• residential2.8%
• commercial2.5%
• electric power0.6%

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/use-of-oil.php

Burning petroleum is a problem. Making useful things from it is very much less so. The value of the products that can be made from a barrel of oil can easily total thousands of dollars. Isn't that much better than the 10 dollars or so they make from turning it into fuel? I'm not discounting the problem of plastic waste, but at least it isn't screwing up the atmosphere.

 

[Gr8ful]

Burning petroleum is a problem. Making useful things from it is very much less so. The value of the products that can be made from a barrel of oil can easily total thousands of dollars. Isn't that much better than the 10 dollars or so they make from turning it into fuel? I'm not discounting the problem of plastic waste, but at least it isn't screwing up the atmosphere.

• Plastic pollution threatens food safety and quality, human health, coastal tourism, and contributes to climate change.
• https://www.iucn.org/resources/issues-brief/marine-plastic-pollution

 

[RonDean]

Plastic...
Yes. It would be good to get it out of the land fills, but we certainly should not burn it "as is" since it is almost entirely made from oil and gas burning it is essentially burning a fossil fuel. ThePlastic2Oil idea seems to have promise since heating it to over 800degrees to produce a gas which it says can be burned cleanly. I don't know if this much heat offsets its value as a fuel, but it would be nice to remove it from the dumps.

As far as Happy's EV fanboy experience, I can't comment because I haven't seen it. I HAVE seen (right here on this forum) a lot of anti-EV folks pushing ANYTHING except for EVs. Should we call them "ICE Fanboys?" Somehow, I think Fanboy might be regarded as derogatory, so I'll pass on that low hanging fruit.

Back to plastic, I'd still rather see us just making and using less of it. Eventually stopping it altogether in all but a few rare circumstances. I've lost track of the number of things (tools, screws, etc.) that come vacuum packed in plastic which we immediately throw away and which have no excuse for needing such packaging. Where I am now staying the local service accepts only #1 and #2 plastic recycling and no glass whatsoever. I remember collecting soda bottles as a kid. It's not like new technology. It's just about $$$ and a few cents greater profit for them. They are not being asked to pay to remove the plastic from the environment, so why should they change?

No... This whole recycling is a scam pushed by the industry to make you and I think they are being responsible - when they are certainly NOT.