Eco Friendly Alternatives

[user 22017]

Plastic...
Yes. It would be good to get it out of the land fills, but we certainly should not burn it "as is" since it is almost entirely made from oil and gas burning it is essentially burning a fossil fuel. ThePlastic2Oil idea seems to have promise since heating it to over 800degrees to produce a gas which it says can be burned cleanly. I don't know if this much heat offsets its value as a fuel, but it would be nice to remove it from the dumps.

As far as Happy's EV fanboy experience, I can't comment because I haven't seen it. I HAVE seen (right here on this forum) a lot of anti-EV folks pushing ANYTHING except for EVs. Should we call them "ICE Fanboys?" Somehow, I think Fanboy might be regarded as derogatory, so I'll pass on that low hanging fruit.

Back to plastic, I'd still rather see us just making and using less of it. Eventually stopping it altogether in all but a few rare circumstances. I've lost track of the number of things (tools, screws, etc.) that come vacuum packed in plastic which we immediately throw away and which have no excuse for needing such packaging. Where I am now staying the local service accepts only #1 and #2 plastic recycling and no glass whatsoever. I remember collecting soda bottles as a kid. It's not like new technology. It's just about $$$ and a few cents greater profit for them. They are not being asked to pay to remove the plastic from the environment, so why should they change?

No... This whole recycling is a scam pushed by the industry to make you and I think they are being responsible - when they are certainly NOT.

Agree. Last night I tried to read up on the links about plastic to oil, etc. and ended up reading about greenwashing and the whole recycling scam. I'm an idiot for paying for my recycling (my town is backward), because I suspect Waste Management isn't recycling squat.

Leave it in the ground. Plastic was a mistake. We are switching from ICE and some people just hate change.

 

[vanbrat]

I am not trying to discourage all you science folks that know so much more than me about all this, but I would again like to see some of the ways you are all doing whatever to slow down your own plastic eco methods. I hate all the plastic I seem to use when out and about. But also know I don't have the budget for tossing all my old stuff and getting the 'new' bamboo stuff offered on Amazon. If those of you who have made a switch to something however small lets me, who has made my own switches, know what more I can do there would be one more thing I can do to reduce my personal footprint.

1. I reuse the tubs for cottage cheese etc instead of buying anything.
2. I use mason jars for just about everything. Not ziplock bags. Not as much as I would like in the van because I don't trust myself with glass that much. So open to something new there.
3. I don't drink with straws if I can help it. But hubby does for milkshakes. Never been a straw fan often just don't use them. never have. yea I have some metal ones, but they are part of my sandcastle kit.
4. There is a LOT of good reuseable cloth in all my jeans, T-shirts, and other cloth 'stuff' left over when I am done wearing/using it for its intended use. I save the good stuff and sew it into whatever I need.
5. We use the mulcher on our lawn mower and don't dump clippings other than to fill some holes in our woods.
where it becomes compost.
6. I recycle 90% of our trash because our county makes it easy.
7. If paper bags are option for plastic for my produce in the store I use the little paper bags. And then decorate them for gift bags. I also make fabric bags for gift bags.
8. I shop thrift stores instead of new first.
9. 90% of my batteries are now rechargeable wall lights, flashlights, fans etc. I use solar when I can to recharge them in my van or recharge while driving.
10. I buy food that is not over packaged whenever I can. Yea I know that sounds silly but....
11. I do not buy plastic silverware EVER. I have a large bunch of thrift store stuff that I bring out when we have BIG parties 3-4 times a year. Not even in the van i hate plastic stuff. To hard to eat with.
12. I have an outdoor solar clothes dryer. Also known as a clothesline. Use it all summer long.
13. I love my local bulk stores. They all have paper bags, and one even has reusable jars for buying their stuff.

I know none of these are going to 'save the world' but in my own small way maybe it helps.

 

[user 22017]

In another thread there was discussion about plastic products and other items that aren't the best overall from an Eco friendly perspective.

It seems like a lot of nomads are trying out, or currently using, alternative products or items minimize their impact on the environment.

It seemed like a discussion worthy of it's own thread. Please share some of the items you're using or looking into for these reasons.

Example. I tried paper straws. They work, but had some downsides. I have also used metal straws. Better for me. But still have some downsides such as storage and cleaning.

I have another example. Recently I learned that collecting seashells is destructive to the environment, but Smithsonian Magazine pointed out that there are other ways to enjoy the beach and sunsets: with photographs and memories! I planned on encouraging my grandchildren to collect shells at the coast in a couple weeks. Now I will use the info to teach them about how habitats are destroyed and why we need regulations and laws.

 

[user 22017]

​ High Costs, Greenlash Hits Europe​ nikolai g. wenzel, the daily economy​ The European Green Deal was implemented in 2019, with a series of environmental measures, such as cutting CO2 emissions by 55 percent by 2030. But since the summer of 2023, the Green Deal has been put on regulatory pause, as the EU faces a “greenlash” against its environmental policies from Dutch farmers, the German populace, and the Italian and Polish governments. While the Green Deal is a sacred cow for the EU elite, it remains to be seen how it will play with the upcoming European parliamentary elections this June.

A Libertarian publication.

When it comes to scientific issues, AIER does not deny the human impact on climate change and supports the consensus of science; however, they do not support a government solution approach: How a Strong Private Sector Will Address Climate Change. However, during the Coronavirus outbreak of 2020, they have published claims that are in dispute. In general, AIER endorses a Libertarian point of view. ~ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-institute-for-economic-research/

 

[Gr8ful]

A Libertarian publication.

Does that make it wrong or a lie? The facts are all over the news. I like SKY news from down under.

 

[user 22017]

Does that make it wrong or a lie? The facts are all over the news. I like SKY news from down under.

No, I didn't say that. But it is good to disclose that they are anti-regulatory when discussing EV's... which depend on regulations. Because, like seashells, people aren't gonna give up what they are accustomed to voluntarily.

 

[Gr8ful]

No, I didn't say that. But it is good to disclose that they are anti-regulatory when discussing EV's... which depend on regulations. Because, like seashells, people aren't gonna give up what they are accustomed to voluntarily.

This was NOT POSTED on the EV thread!

 

[thebarefootbadger]

My two cents is that it's not so much plastic being produced that's the problem, it's our throw-away, gotta-have-a-new-thing economy that means the plastic products made are of a quality barely good enough to last one use. I think ironically the less plastic they put into each item, the less likely it can be reused, and the more likely it will (at best) wind up in a big pile being wish-cycled.

This morning I put the comb that lives in my glove box in the dishwasher cuz it was looking a bit unappealing, and realized I've had this thing for almost 50 years! One. Comb. That has served its purpose admirably and will probably work fine for another 50 years. I've never had a need for a different one. If we could have an attitude like that about more things, buy it and be done with buying it, I think garbage could become almost a thing of the past. If I get bored with my awesome quality item, I'll trade ya!

 

[user 22017]

This was NOT POSTED on the EV thread!

I'm sorry

 

[Happy Camper]

I have another example. Recently I learned that collecting seashells is destructive to the environment, but Smithsonian Magazine pointed out that there are other ways to enjoy the beach and sunsets: with photographs and memories! I planned on encouraging my grandchildren to collect shells at the coast in a couple weeks. Now I will use the info to teach them about how habitats are destroyed and why we need regulations and laws.

To some extent, everything humans do is destructive to the environment. Including breathing, eating, farting, driving, walking in some areas, etc. You name it, I can find a way it's destructive to the environment. And so can an environmentalist. That's their job and passion. And I totally respect what they have to say, and the information they gather. I've always been all in on learning as much as I can about animals and nature. I'm thankful someone does that work.

My point is that we can adjust things to be more considerate of our surroundings. But we can't live in constant fear of things we might be doing that will affect things in 100 years. Or 50. Or 20. We can just moderate things we do and take a balanced view in how we approach things.

We have sea shell collectors on this forum. And they get great enjoyment from it. I used to collect as well. My actions may have caused the death of a few hundred crabs, birds, or whatever over the course of my life.

But then again, I just ate a hamburger, so I'm killing for food and for pleasure I suppose. Or having someone do it for me in this case.

We can't save every species on earth. That's not our place. New species have come and others have gone extinct since the Earth could support life. We are a drop in the bucket in terms of the existence of this planet. In a thousand years, if we've decided to nuke ourselves out of existence, there will be life on this planet. Thriving life. Because this planet and the life on it adjusts to the conditions presented. Animals at Chernobyl still have high amounts of radiation in their systems and are surviving. The worms there have become resistant to radiation. It's rather amazing.

So someone can make it their life's work to save the super swamp sticker horny toad. And chances are they will have gone extinct or evolved to survive regardless of the intervention. That's the truth. And it's backed by science.

Before someone brings up the delicate balance of the food chain and other parts of the ecosystem I'll say this. Yes. Those systems are important and have been around for a long time. And changing those systems will have an impact in ways we know, and in others we can't know. The ecosystem can and will adjust. In ways we think are correct? No idea. But no one ever thought we'd have radiation resistant worms either.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^Do you really think mankind doesn’t have the ability to destroy the earth totally or at least every living thing on it? Your point being if the problem is just to big to be solved why try? Lol!!! Everyone, don’t worry be happy!

 

[user 22017]

To some extent, everything humans do is destructive to the environment. Including breathing, eating, farting, driving, walking in some areas, etc. You name it, I can find a way it's destructive to the environment. And so can an environmentalist. That's their job and passion. And I totally respect what they have to say, and the information they gather. I've always been all in on learning as much as I can about animals and nature. I'm thankful someone does that work.

My point is that we can adjust things to be more considerate of our surroundings. But we can't live in constant fear of things we might be doing that will affect things in 100 years. Or 50. Or 20. We can just moderate things we do and take a balanced view in how we approach things.

We have sea shell collectors on this forum. And they get great enjoyment from it. I used to collect as well. My actions may have caused the death of a few hundred crabs, birds, or whatever over the course of my life.

But then again, I just ate a hamburger, so I'm killing for food and for pleasure I suppose. Or having someone do it for me in this case.

We can't save every species on earth. That's not our place. New species have come and others have gone extinct since the Earth could support life. We are a drop in the bucket in terms of the existence of this planet. In a thousand years, if we've decided to nuke ourselves out of existence, there will be life on this planet. Thriving life. Because this planet and the life on it adjusts to the conditions presented. Animals at Chernobyl still have high amounts of radiation in their systems and are surviving. The worms there have become resistant to radiation. It's rather amazing.

So someone can make it their life's work to save the super swamp sticker horny toad. And chances are they will have gone extinct or evolved to survive regardless of the intervention. That's the truth. And it's backed by science.

Before someone brings up the delicate balance of the food chain and other parts of the ecosystem I'll say this. Yes. Those systems are important and have been around for a long time. And changing those systems will have an impact in ways we know, and in others we can't know. The ecosystem can and will adjust. In ways we think are correct? No idea. But no one ever thought we'd have radiation resistant worms either.

Don't know what you are getting at.

 

[Happy Camper]

^^^Do you really think mankind doesn’t have the ability to destroy the earth totally or at least every living thing on it? Your point being if the problem is just to big to be solved why try? Lol!!! Everyone, don’t worry be happy!

I think the closest we can come to destroying the earth is nuclear war. And I'm saying that in the event of said war, some living things would still survive. Then eventually thrive. That isn't destroying the planet. That's just another blip in the course of it's existence. There used to be dinosaurs too. Before the last end of the world event.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do things that help. Nor am saying it's a lost cause to try. I'm saying there's being a responsible human, and then there is going too far past that point and it becoming a negative.

Don't know what you are getting at.

I'm getting at stuff happens. We can and should do better for the environment and in many other ways. But we can't save everything or everyone. Not saying we can't try. I'm tired of hearing the world is going to end of we don't do this and that now now now. The world has been about to end my entire life for one reason or another. And it'll be about to end for other reasons when my great grandkids are my age. Don't live in fear because we're in the middle of this iteration of the world ending. Again.

 

[user 22017]

I think the closest we can come to destroying the earth is nuclear war. And I'm saying that in the event of said war, some living things would still survive. Then eventually thrive. That isn't destroying the planet. That's just another blip in the course of it's existence. There used to be dinosaurs too. Before the last end of the world event.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do things that help. Nor am saying it's a lost cause to try. I'm saying there's being a responsible human, and then there is going too far past that point and it becoming a negative.

I'm getting at stuff happens. We can and should do better for the environment and in many other ways. But we can't save everything or everyone. Not saying we can't try. I'm tired of hearing the world is going to end of we don't do this and that now now now. The world has been about to end my entire life for one reason or another. And it'll be about to end for other reasons when my great grandkids are my age. Don't live in fear because we're in the middle of this iteration of the world ending. Again.

I'm almost 66 and didn't grow up hearing the world was about to end. There was the Cold War before my time but we learned that that was a bunch of fear mongering for the most part. I didn't start hearing about the world coming to an end until maybe 15 years ago. When I started reading about the ice caps melting and the permafrost thawing. Climate change. And now we are experiencing it. There is no denying the changing temps and weather patterns.

The little things I do, I do because I want to. Not because it's helping the planet at all, I know that corporations and the military need to solve this... not us regular folks. And they will not do it voluntarily, because it is not profitable. They must be forced to act by passing laws and regulations. The military is aware of how much they are contributing to the climate crisis and want to act... but someone is pulling strings preventing them from doing so. From what I have read.

I have little hope for the U.S. to change its ways. Too many entitled people and too many bought politicians. My hope is in the UN. https://news.un.org/en/news/topic/climate-change

Putting your head in the sand and ignoring what our politicians are failing to do is not helping anything either.

 

[RonDean]

I am not trying to discourage all you science folks that know so much more than me about all this, but I would again like to see some of the ways you are all doing whatever to slow down your own plastic eco methods. I hate all the plastic I seem to use when out and about. But also know I don't have the budget for tossing all my old stuff and getting the 'new' bamboo stuff offered on Amazon. If those of you who have made a switch to something however small lets me, who has made my own switches, know what more I can do there would be one more thing I can do to reduce my personal footprint.

1. I reuse the tubs for cottage cheese etc instead of buying anything.
2. I use mason jars for just about everything. Not ziplock bags. Not as much as I would like in the van because I don't trust myself with glass that much. So open to something new there.
3. I don't drink with straws if I can help it. But hubby does for milkshakes. Never been a straw fan often just don't use them. never have. yea I have some metal ones, but they are part of my sandcastle kit.
4. There is a LOT of good reuseable cloth in all my jeans, T-shirts, and other cloth 'stuff' left over when I am done wearing/using it for its intended use. I save the good stuff and sew it into whatever I need.
5. We use the mulcher on our lawn mower and don't dump clippings other than to fill some holes in our woods.
where it becomes compost.
6. I recycle 90% of our trash because our county makes it easy.
7. If paper bags are option for plastic for my produce in the store I use the little paper bags. And then decorate them for gift bags. I also make fabric bags for gift bags.
8. I shop thrift stores instead of new first.
9. 90% of my batteries are now rechargeable wall lights, flashlights, fans etc. I use solar when I can to recharge them in my van or recharge while driving.
10. I buy food that is not over packaged whenever I can. Yea I know that sounds silly but....
11. I do not buy plastic silverware EVER. I have a large bunch of thrift store stuff that I bring out when we have BIG parties 3-4 times a year. Not even in the van i hate plastic stuff. To hard to eat with.
12. I have an outdoor solar clothes dryer. Also known as a clothesline. Use it all summer long.
13. I love my local bulk stores. They all have paper bags, and one even has reusable jars for buying their stuff.

I know none of these are going to 'save the world' but in my own small way maybe it helps.

I applaud your efforts. You might add the following:

1. Buy rectangular blocks of butter packaged in paper - the old fashioned packaging way. Then get a butter dish so you can let it get soft.
2. Look for powdered flavors for your drinks in paper packaging.
3. Never buy disposable water bottles - all of which seem to come in plastic. I use a good water filter for questionable water.
4. Get several Collapsible Shopping Totes and use them until they shred. Then duct tape them back together and go on using them. (Hint: store-baggers love these and will thanks you. They do me.)

Everything else you do looks great!

 

[RonDean]

I don't think the world is ending. I DO think the world will be less pleasant. There may not be enough food or clean water for everyone. We will see more refugees moving around the world. You don't have to be as old as me to notice droughts, storms, fires, etc. are all getting worse. WE (you, me, our families) will bear the brunt of it. Most of the real movers and shakers will have made enough money to insulate themselves from the worst of it. But, who knows, maybe we will invent something tomorrow that will solve all the problems. I don't think I'll hold my breath though.

In The Meantime, I can at least do what I can not to add to the problem. Thus I feel better about myself.

 

[bullfrog !]

I guess I have a much higher opinion of human capability especially with the resources in America and a Constitution to guide a government of, by and for the people. We just have to be responsible enough to make it work.

 

[user 22017]

I am not trying to discourage all you science folks that know so much more than me about all this, but I would again like to see some of the ways you are all doing whatever to slow down your own plastic eco methods. I hate all the plastic I seem to use when out and about. But also know I don't have the budget for tossing all my old stuff and getting the 'new' bamboo stuff offered on Amazon. If those of you who have made a switch to something however small lets me, who has made my own switches, know what more I can do there would be one more thing I can do to reduce my personal footprint.

1. I reuse the tubs for cottage cheese etc instead of buying anything.
2. I use mason jars for just about everything. Not ziplock bags. Not as much as I would like in the van because I don't trust myself with glass that much. So open to something new there.
3. I don't drink with straws if I can help it. But hubby does for milkshakes. Never been a straw fan often just don't use them. never have. yea I have some metal ones, but they are part of my sandcastle kit.
4. There is a LOT of good reuseable cloth in all my jeans, T-shirts, and other cloth 'stuff' left over when I am done wearing/using it for its intended use. I save the good stuff and sew it into whatever I need.
5. We use the mulcher on our lawn mower and don't dump clippings other than to fill some holes in our woods.
where it becomes compost.
6. I recycle 90% of our trash because our county makes it easy.
7. If paper bags are option for plastic for my produce in the store I use the little paper bags. And then decorate them for gift bags. I also make fabric bags for gift bags.
8. I shop thrift stores instead of new first.
9. 90% of my batteries are now rechargeable wall lights, flashlights, fans etc. I use solar when I can to recharge them in my van or recharge while driving.
10. I buy food that is not over packaged whenever I can. Yea I know that sounds silly but....
11. I do not buy plastic silverware EVER. I have a large bunch of thrift store stuff that I bring out when we have BIG parties 3-4 times a year. Not even in the van i hate plastic stuff. To hard to eat with.
12. I have an outdoor solar clothes dryer. Also known as a clothesline. Use it all summer long.
13. I love my local bulk stores. They all have paper bags, and one even has reusable jars for buying their stuff.

I know none of these are going to 'save the world' but in my own small way maybe it helps.

Sounds like you are doing just about everything right. You mentioned bamboo... I only bought the ones with bamboo lids because it was either that or plastic lids. I bought my daughter similar glass dishes to use in the Hot Logic I got her for when she is delivering mail. Pyrex only comes with plastic lids.

Anyway, we do what we can What helps is to think "zero waste". I had friends 30 years ago who practiced zero waste successfully. I was amazed. At the end of each week they ended up with less than a grocery bag of trash. I have never come close... not by miles

It's easier to accomplish in a large metro area or in a college town. Either will usually have a food coop where you can bag your own food... bought in bulk. Bring your own containers for grains, coffee, sugar, etc. Often they let you work so many hours a week there to help pay for the food. Of course, when practicing zero waste, you cook from scratch. Not a bad thing at all... gotta be organized, tho. Hard with kids.

Since you buy from thrift stores you don't have to worry about excessive packaging. You're doing great!

I'm failing miserably. All this stuff I bought to be a nomad... yikes. Tons of packaging. I'll keep trying.

 

[Happy Camper]

Carla, to be fair to yourself, things were packaged differently 30 years ago. We do what we can to make an improvement in the world. The fact that you're trying is more than many.

Myself and those around me try as well. Sometimes we do better than others.

 

[LargeMarge]

What about all the other things made of oil? Just google...

.
Tuna fish!
Olives!
Coconuts!
.
An aside:
Tuna shooters!... Yum-O!
.
.
An aside:
Points deducted for placing the word 'google' with the word 'just' in one sentence
Even their proximity in one paragraph defies rationality.
Kidding.
zuck is my hero.