Durango Colorado up in arms against boondockers

[wagoneer]

Build it and they will come, large gravel open areas for the walmart crowd. Those of us that really care?

 

[Weight]

https://durangoherald.com/articles/106173
highdesertranger

This article is two years old.

 

[John61CT]

Build it and they will come, large gravel open areas for the walmart crowd. Those of us that really care?

I'd be interested to find out what jurisdictions you think would allow this within their land use regulations.

Or where the neighbors wouldn't fight it tooth and nail.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

People through this forum and videos are being encouraged to get a vehicle and go live on public land. The public lands were not set aside to be permanent residences. As more people do this, there will be more regulations and limitations. The authorities won't see one person camped, they will see a village forming. I foresee in the future rules that say you can camp on public land X amount of days a year. Some places already have reduced the stay time from two weeks to one. Look at Ehrenberg. As an area becomes popular, more problems arise and authorities have to deal with it.

Exactly.  People are encouraged to shit in a bucket and dump it in the landfills or bury it in the land.  It's not ok to empty your compost toilet pee on lawns either.  I've been a camper for 50 years and have never repelled society around me and have often picked up after others.  I've waited and waited and planned for retirement to be able to use the public lands for recreation.  My tanks are dumped properly and my trash disposed of same.   We usually stay at pay campsites ("developed").  But, the homeless problem is EVERYWHERE.  Why?  Housing costs.  People buy houses and raise rent over and over until you'd have to work 3 jobs to live there.

Maybe when we see someone down and out we could offer to take a couple bags of their trash and dump it with ours, provided of course those folks seem safe to approach.  

I am concerned that people are buying used vehicles that will break down and helpless people will die on the BLM lands - or steal from others to survive.  At least the cities offer aid, shelters in extreme weather, clothing, etc.  We always donate to our local county aid.  I have wanted to go to RTR for years (I've been off and on lists since PC lists started) and we are finally a year away from full time and ability to go to events and places etc.  Then again, maybe Bob and his $100 to camp next to him and $5k patreon income WILL BRING HIS DREAM of owning land for welcoming others will happen.  I'm like Tinkerbell - if you truly believe ....   (or is that the good witch?)  

Really - BLM land is land enough for growing food and setting up shelter for everyone but that would be going back to living as true tribes and in communities that care for each person in that community and all those home owners would be out rent and billionaires wouldn't have their workers).  When I leave this world I think I will choose age 23 (I'm 66) and choose a different dimension to dwell in.

 

[RVTravel]

There are alot of half empty glasses in this thread..lol...THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LathrenJames]

Exactly.  People are encouraged to shit in a bucket and dump it in the landfills or bury it in the land.  It's not ok to empty your compost toilet pee on lawns either.  I've been a camper for 50 years and have never repelled society around me and have often picked up after others.  I've waited and waited and planned for retirement to be able to use the public lands for recreation.  My tanks are dumped properly and my trash disposed of same.   We usually stay at pay campsites ("developed").  But, the homeless problem is EVERYWHERE.  Why?  Housing costs.  People buy houses and raise rent over and over until you'd have to work 3 jobs to live there.

Maybe when we see someone down and out we could offer to take a couple bags of their trash and dump it with ours, provided of course those folks seem safe to approach.  

I am concerned that people are buying used vehicles that will break down and helpless people will die on the BLM lands - or steal from others to survive.  At least the cities offer aid, shelters in extreme weather, clothing, etc.  We always donate to our local county aid.  I have wanted to go to RTR for years (I've been off and on lists since PC lists started) and we are finally a year away from full time and ability to go to events and places etc.  Then again, maybe Bob and his $100 to camp next to him and $5k patreon income WILL BRING HIS DREAM of owning land for welcoming others will happen.  I'm like Tinkerbell - if you truly believe ....   (or is that the good witch?)  

Really - BLM land is land enough for growing food and setting up shelter for everyone but that would be going back to living as true tribes and in communities that care for each person in that community and all those home owners would be out rent and billionaires wouldn't have their workers).  When I leave this world I think I will choose age 23 (I'm 66) and choose a different dimension to dwell in.

TRUTH!

The truth, and we all know this, is a few will rise to the top with their patreon accounts and youtube channels and they will entice people who are vulnerable. They will tell themselves that they are doing others a service, when in-fact, they are preying on people who are hopeless. But before they sedated themselves into preying on even lesser-fortunate, they, too, were hopeless. It is and always will be a hierarchy- even for the poorest of the poor.  For as much "help" as ebeggars give, they take away so much more. I understand and it is obvious that many of their prey have emotional/mental issues and making those, even less fortunate, their fund-source is wrong. So we agree. But what else is there?

And then, there is this problem: Some people are House-less and some are about to be, at an advanced stage in life, 'homeless'. They are seeking refuge. They are on their last leg and all they have left is Hope. Our job here is to helpfully advise (without renumeration) and uplift those who are panicking in desperation.  If someone promises you that they will make your travels/life easier if only you will donate your money to them- keep walking. Peace

 

[DLTooley]

Curiously, I was camped within 50' of this guy just a few days before this article came out. This is La Plata Canyon, what was once a superb boondocking spot, not close to a Walmart/City Market/Home Depot/Movie Theatre, but close enough.

At that time they had been lax on enforcing the 14 day rule there, in contrast to over enforcing closer to town. Litter laws should have greater enforcement and don't recall frequent monitoring for enforcement - all the more so for an alcohol container strewn camp. I have substantial detailed knowledge of this Forest District and I believe they were intentionally creating a problem in order to shut down the camping.

The local County has two Democratic Commissioners and one Republican. There is a loud minority of conservative southern/oil racist Christians who do most of the complaining. There are lots of homeless in Durango, and the two populations are overlapped in people's minds. The Forest Service leadership, curiously, are from Texas.

It is a good place to boondock, you can winter there without driving too far, or to be homeless though only a few hardy individuals do so. I am honored to have met those guys. FreeCampsites has the spots. The best sorta close spot is Saul's Creek, five miles from Bayfield with a good small grocery/hardware/auto parts stores and a great small library, about 20 miles out from Town. La Plata Canyon is worth a check out, I haven't been back personally.

We all can do a lot to help build a more responsible culture, perhaps even formally. I am developing relationships with other regional agencies toward that end. I have a few spots in the area on FreeCampsites. Cortez is a better town now to base out of, though it is too hot for me in the peak of summer. It looks like the Mary E. Campground near Telluride will be opening soon thanks to these efforts. That campground was closed in the 90's due long term hippie use - and related political efforts including the former La Plata County Attorney who just retired here.

I got a camping ticket up Junction Creek June, 2010, shortly after I got started. I appealed it all the way to the Supreme Court with an 'equal enforcement' argument. The Supremes declined to hear the case. I do believe I got the local part time magistrate/part time real estate developer really pissed. This was the same guy/same jurisdiction as the Gold King Mine disaster you may recall.

http://www.motleytools.com/comments/2013/06/camping_ticket_pleadings_befor.html

If you are in the area I've got a couple of secret spots that I'll share via PM. I've also figured how to winter there.

 

[LathrenJames]

Sincere question, Douglas T.- was the energy used to refute this ticket worth it? It may have been.. I'm certainly not judging. Should we, as "nomads" question authority? I think so, in the long run. If we do not question and demand our rights and liberties, we will be disenfranchised. Even through you may have lost your court case, you did take a stand. We, as a culture of nomads, better lock arms and take a stand. That's said, those who do not comply with common decency (such as following the principles of Leave No trace) should not be promoted nor protected, in any way. Clean your room!

 

[Blanch]

I am moving to my usual camp for this area tomorrow. I was just up there scouting which spot I will grab. This is the mess I found at my spot.

I can’t even articulate how much this pisses me off. This isn’t a homeless camp, this is left behind by people camping.

The folks I will be camping with and I will clean this up. Now how do we stop inconsiderate jerks who dump garbage and human waste from being associated with the full time RV community?


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[DLTooley]

Sincere question, Douglas T.- was the energy used to refute this ticket worth it? It may have been.. I'm certainly not judging. Should we, as "nomads" question authority? I think so, in the long run. If we do not question and demand our rights and liberties, we will be disenfranchised. Even through you may have lost your court case, you did take a stand. We, as a culture of nomads, better lock arms and take a stand. That's said, those who do not comply with common decency (such as following the principles of Leave No trace) should not be promoted nor protected, in any way. Clean your room!

Not yet.

 

[John61CT]

I am moving to my usual camp for this area tomorrow. I was just up there scouting which spot I will grab. This is the mess I found at my spot.

You can't. The white hats just need to clean up after the bad ones.

And just being clean &  neat, even Leave no Trace good citizens will not IMO help much politically, those full timing in vehicles will always be a very small step above street living panhandlers in the eyes of mainstream S&B dwellers.

Edited to remove unnecessary quoting and pictures

 

[lenny flank]

We can't do much to better the problem. But we can at least help not worsen it.

 

[DLTooley]

I am moving to my usual camp for this area tomorrow. I was just up there scouting which spot I will grab. This is the mess I found at my spot.

Is that La Plata Canyon?

 

[DLTooley]

You can't. The white hats just need to clean up after the bad ones.

And just being clean &  neat, even Leave no Trace good citizens will not IMO help much politically, those full timing in vehicles will always be a very small step above street living panhandlers in the eyes of mainstream S&B dwellers.

There are definitely lots of folks that sympathize with us, but the legal misrepresentation culture, and politics, is strong.  Even a few of the white hats are potential van dwellers - and we have a few already.

 

[Blanch]

Is that La Plata Canyon?

Nope. California Redwoods.


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[curlew]

Johnny Cash had a song, *Water Isn't Water Anymore." I think if he were alive and writing he might come out with *America isn't America Anymore*.

I have personal experience with millennial who got caught up in the *Green Rush* to Colorado thinking every drug would be legalized following the cannabis businesses sprouting up in Denver and elsewhere. Someone didn't educate them in the American corporatocracy. Big business took over the cannabusiness and wouldn't hire anyone with drug arrests so all these kids ended up stranded around Colorado's mountains waiting for their ship to come in or something. No education for the real world. Parents discarded them. Being swept from place to place along with the rest of the homeless. A generation wasted due to incompetent leaders and educators and corporate greed. So there they are with their dogs and their Doc Martins and all the weed in the world to smoke and not much else. And when you're stoned, the future is the next toke.

Every one of them made a personal choice to do what they did, by somehow everything is everyone else's fault.

 

[AreWeLostYet]

This article is two years old.

Opposing what they are calling "non-recreational, long-term camping" is a constant issue in this newspaper. And it seems a hot topic in many small towns near boondocking areas. I've felt the heat myself from locals who think of the local backroads as their own local playgrounds. They eye other than locals as "invaders" into their own private preserve and exert pressures to get that message through. I recall a youtube by Carolyn where she had a pack of off-road vehicles enter her camping area, engines roaring, doing donuts, pealing out, stirring up dust. She hightailed out of their. That was likely locals exerting their feeling of self-entitlement to that place.

 

[AreWeLostYet]

Exactly.  People are encouraged to shit in a bucket and dump it in the landfills or bury it in the land.  It's not ok to empty your compost toilet pee on lawns either.  I've been a camper for 50 years and have never repelled society around me and have often picked up after others.  I've waited and waited and planned for retirement to be able to use the public lands for recreation.  My tanks are dumped properly and my trash disposed of same.   We usually stay at pay campsites ("developed").  But, the homeless problem is EVERYWHERE.  Why?  Housing costs.  People buy houses and raise rent over and over until you'd have to work 3 jobs to live there.

Maybe when we see someone down and out we could offer to take a couple bags of their trash and dump it with ours, provided of course those folks seem safe to approach.  

I am concerned that people are buying used vehicles that will break down and helpless people will die on the BLM lands - or steal from others to survive.  At least the cities offer aid, shelters in extreme weather, clothing, etc.  We always donate to our local county aid.  I have wanted to go to RTR for years (I've been off and on lists since PC lists started) and we are finally a year away from full time and ability to go to events and places etc.  Then again, maybe Bob and his $100 to camp next to him and $5k patreon income WILL BRING HIS DREAM of owning land for welcoming others will happen.  I'm like Tinkerbell - if you truly believe ....   (or is that the good witch?)  

Really - BLM land is land enough for growing food and setting up shelter for everyone but that would be going back to living as true tribes and in communities that care for each person in that community and all those home owners would be out rent and billionaires wouldn't have their workers).  When I leave this world I think I will choose age 23 (I'm 66) and choose a different dimension to dwell in.

I see the younger generation wishing for something like the 60's movie "Wild in the Streets" where hippies take over society and force anyone over 35 years into concentration camps where they're kept high on LSD and out of the way of what youth culture considers "progress".

 

[AreWeLostYet]

We had to learn the hard way. We saw an older man in a wheelchair outside of WalMart, asking for money. He was clearly intoxicated. His hospital pants were soiled badly. His leg had been amputated at the knee and he was a heavy person. Of course we felt sorry for him- gave him money; went into the Goodwill next door and found new clothes that would fit him and gave him a sleeping bag because he pointed out where he'd been staying behind a dumpster (conveniently located behind a liquor store).

This guy was articulate and charming even drunk. He was super friendly. We felt okay with what efforts we'd made for him. 

The next day, as we were leaving we saw him getting into his beautiful RV. One of the big ones. We asked some locals about him. We were told we could learn more about the man and his "business" on his FB Page! Uh, he's doing quite well.

Lesson learned... :s

This is the lowest of the low. Capitalizing upon the sentiments the feeling minority have for the less fortunate. This guy needs to be outed. I hear about this kind of thing all the time. People who suck the charity of the public and suck the social safety net to feed their appetite for a lifestyle they don't deserve. They have to be rooted out and the public's charity routed to those who need and deserve it before any progress on helping the truly deserving underclass can occur.

 

[AreWeLostYet]

Well, Durango has also become increasingly gentrified.

Everyplace has become decreasingly gentrified. Saw a recent youtube by Carolyn where she stopped off in Weed, CA on her way to Seattle where she marvels on the change from her last visit 30 years or so ago. I was dumbfounded recently driving through Grand Junction CO having not been there since the early 70's. Looks like sprawling Southern California with every kind of big box store from the freeway. And everyone I talk to seems to be from So Cal. People are leaving LA, SF, SD in droves. Many are retirees, so they don't really bring much business or jobs to the areas they retire to. Too bad for the young people there. No jobs and they find out fast the cities are just death traps full of deadly drugs, STDs and the only "employment" is drug dealing and prostitution. Fine job America F[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]μck Yo[size=small][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]μ too.[/font][/font][/size]