Driving at payload capacity ??

[Svenn]

I have a new F150 with a payload capacity of 1600 lbs... with all the water, batteries, canopy shell, etc it looks like I'm going to be pretty darn close to the max (I'm currently at 1500 lbs with my estimates, on the safe side; haven't actually weighed it). 

Is this going to be really dangerous or hard to drive if I'm at Ford's "max"?  Or does Ford underestimate it for there own liability?  

There's not a whole lot I can cut from my system except for maybe 75 lbs of battery, 100 lbs of water, the 40 lbs spare tire, and driving around on half a tank of gas- 80lbs, or kicking out the presumed hypothetical 150 lbs woman I included.

 

[BradKW]

Flirting with the listed max is, in my experience, not a problem. I've gone so far beyond flirting that the rear leafs were inverted on a e150 and the tailpipe was about dragging...didn't exactly handle well. Sort of like trying to steer a toboggan. Point being, you'll know if you've overdone it...and you could always beef up the suspension or add air bags to even things out.

 

[highdesertranger]

basically you are going to have to test drive it. how does it sit? is it squatting in the rear? if it squats in the rear it will unload the front which is not good and must be corrected. when you test drive find a place or time when there is no traffic. practice your emergency stopping, start slow like at 20 mph. work up slowly if at anytime you feel like you are pushing the limits stop, you have to much weight. remember stopping is more important than going. you should do a brake fade test, this is really hard on your braking system. heat your brakes up you can do this by riding them a little the idea is to get them a little warm not cooking hot to wear you smell them you should never smell your brakes. once you have heated them up try your emergency stopping again. your truck should stop straight and close to your unloaded distance.

imo 1/2 ton trucks today have to small of brakes for there maximum payloads. you don't want to find out your brakes are not up to par going down an 8% grade in a rain storm.
highdesertranger

 

[DannyB1954]

I agree the brakes are the biggest issue. You can upgrade the brake pads at any parts store. I think ceramics do best with heat. I occasionally hauled firewood with my 1/2 ton, so I put on rear shocks with helper springs. Some say the shock mounts were not meant to bear weight, but I have not had a problem.
As far as weight rating, It is considered to be a half ton truck, (1,000lbs). So I think 1,600 lbs is already being generous. I wouldn't go too much over that.

 

[SternWake]

Try Hawk HPS brake pads. After putting these on my Van, and adjusting the rear drums properly, the braking power is simply impressive. Very little dust that is easy to wipe off rims, and good grip when hot, good bite when wet too.
Only issue is that final 0.5mph to stop, they are noisy, but so were my previous Bendix Titaniummettalic2 pads which were fairly aggressive too but only 60% the insane stopping power of the Hawk HPS pads.

Keeping the suspension from sagging is important from a handling perspective, but beefing up the suspension is not going to increase what the vehicle can carry overall, the limiting factor is the weight the axle can handle, and of course the brakes and tires.

Long term overloading or loading to the max is much different than the occasional overload when moving something heavy slowly, from A to B.

Loading to the max at highway speed in summer, could have a tire go out without warning causing a rollover which affects not only you.

 

[DannyB1954]

Also get better tires. The weight rating of them is what some states go by to determine overloading. It says on the sidewall what they are rated for. I use load range E. A lot of 1/2 ton pick ups come with load range C which are basically passenger car tires.

 

[29chico]

I agree the brakes are the biggest issue. You can upgrade the brake pads at any parts store. I think ceramics do best with heat. I occasionally hauled firewood with my 1/2 ton, so I put on rear shocks with helper springs. Some say the shock mounts were not meant to bear weight, but I have not had a problem.
As far as weight rating, It is considered to be a half ton truck, (1,000lbs). So I think 1,600 lbs is already being generous. I wouldn't go too much over that.

When Ford went from the f100 to the f150 they decided to rate it as a 3/5th ton truck or 1200 pounds.  Then GM and Mopar followed along and made their offerings that directly competed with the f150 3/5th ton trucks also and called them 1500's.

 

[Gunny]

I am certainly no expert on weights, but one of the most common topics on truck camper forums is about weight and carrying capacity.

One of the things consistently brought up is that if you are in an accident and some legal expert (insert lawyer) claims that you were violating the weights safe for your vehicle.
Even if you add the springs, air bags and all that stuff, a half ton is still a half ton in the eyes of the cops.

What you do is of course your business. but my trust of lawyers and the legal system is non-existent.

 

[29chico]

I am certainly no expert on weights, but one of the most common topics on truck camper forums is about weight and carrying capacity.

One of the things consistently brought up is that if you are in an accident and some legal expert (insert lawyer) claims that you were violating the weights safe for your vehicle.
Even if you add the springs, air bags and all that stuff, a half ton is still a half ton in the eyes of the cops.

What you do is of course your business. but my trust of lawyers and the legal system is non-existent.

You are correct that no amount of simply suspension & brake system tweaking by an owner will raise the GVWR of a vehicle above what the mfr.'s rating was when it left the factory.  By going thru an extensive process an owner can become the manufacturer of the vehicle and then become fully liable for the vehicle's performance in all aspects.  Not many folks get thru the process.

A licensed vehicle converter can also apply a new GVWR to a vehicle when they apply their new door sticker to the door frame and at that point are considered the mfr. of the vehicle in question.  Engineering costs are another potential issue for both an owner or converter when a vehicle is effectively "re-branded" per the above.

 

[Svenn]

Try Hawk HPS brake pads.  After putting these on my Van, and adjusting the rear drums properly, the braking power is simply impressive.  Very little dust that is easy to wipe off rims, and good grip when hot, good bite when wet too.
Only issue is that final 0.5mph to stop, they are noisy, but so were my previous Bendix Titaniummettalic2 pads which were fairly aggressive too but only 60% the insane stopping power of the Hawk HPS pads.

Keeping the suspension from sagging is important from a handling perspective, but beefing up the suspension is not going to increase what the vehicle can carry overall, the limiting factor is the weight the axle can handle, and of course the brakes and tires.

Long term overloading or loading to the max is much different than the occasional overload when moving something heavy slowly, from A to B.

Loading to the max at highway speed in summer, could have a tire go out without warning causing a rollover which affects not only you.

Thanks SternWake.




What's the worst that can happen here if I consistently drive 100 or 200 pounds within the payload limit?  Obviously Ford put the limit there to reduce their liability, so it must be reliably safe long term?  

I understand the tire going out, but if I got beefier tires and wheels, and brakes, then whats the worst case scenario?  It's just slow wear and tear on the axel right which wouldn't result in a catastrophic accident right?  and it could be monitored?

 

[DannyB1954]

Thanks SternWake.




What's the worst that can happen here if I consistently drive 100 or 200 pounds within the payload limit?  Obviously Ford put the limit there to reduce their liability, so it must be reliably safe long term?  

I understand the tire going out, but if I got beefier tires and wheels, and brakes, then whats the worst case scenario?  It's just slow wear and tear on the axel right which wouldn't result in a catastrophic accident right?  and it could be monitored?

It is impossible to predict. Even with mass production, all parts are not exactly the same. Ford may feel that every axel that they made should support 1,600 lbs, But some will support much more just by chance, and some not a lot more. There probably is a safety factor that they use, so if it is rated for 1,600 lbs, they may figure it should do a percentage better than that. What is that percentage? They probably will not say. could be 10%, 20% 5%. 
I personally would not stress about 200 lb over. but that is me, not a professional opinion.

 

[akrvbob]

I had an F150 that ws overloaded all it's life. It was bulletproof until 200,000 miles then every little part everywhere on the vehicle started failing. I attribute that premature failure to the chronic overloading.

I'll predict the same thing for you but because you aren't overloaded, it might come a little later. That's so far away you might not care and will just pass it on to the next guy.
Bob

 

[Svenn]

I had an F150 that ws overloaded all it's life. It was bulletproof until 200,000 miles then every little part everywhere on the vehicle started failing. I attribute that premature failure to the chronic overloading.

I'll predict the same thing for you but because you aren't overloaded, it might come a little later. That's so far away you might not care and will just pass it on to the next guy.
Bob

That's the kind of real world experience I was hoping for! Now I can rest a bit easier

 

[BlackNBlue]

1500# in a 3-ton Ford? Talk about inefficient! My 1.5-ton Toyota is rated for 1100 payload. This truck has seen 5500# GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight, that is, including anything it's towing) with garbage trailers several times, somewhere over 6000# towing a car once for 20 miles, and 1700# of cargo (4700# gross weight) with no trailer, on a 1000-mile trip including mountain passes. Slow, but nary a hiccup. It's 35 years old and the odometer has rolled over at least twice.

Your Ford's weight rating is quite conservative, and reflects American litigous culture more than physical reality. That said, it also reflects the spring rate of the rear axle; stronger springs with the same empty weight would mean a rougher ride. I've known people with F350's who drive around with sandbags in the back - on pavement in summertime, so it's not about snow traction - just so it's more comfortable. Again, talk about inefficient.

I've never seen a Ford, or any other domestic vehicle for that matter, make it over 200k without all kinds of little (and sometimes big) things failing. That goes for neglected overloaded farm trucks as well as mall-cruisers.

Also, that Ford has a lot of parts that may interchange with its bigger brethren - springs, axles, and brakes to name a few.

If it were me, I would:
- consult with Ford mechanics, especially who deal with built off-road vehicles, about the real-world strength of the rear axle. If it's anything like a Toyota's, you've got a loooong way to go before reaching its limits. If not, see about putting in an F250 axle.
- make sure your tires are in good shape and rated for the weight. Having done so...
- not bat an eye at 1500# payload unless the rear springs go inverted (or worse, ride on the bump stops)
- drive gently but not worry too much about 2000#. For legal reasons, you want to make sure your gross weight is within what the sticker says. Note that this is not always the same as what the Owner's Manual says about payload.
- when it comes time to do a brake job, see about upgrading to F250 or bigger brakes. You're mostly looking for bigger rotors and drums (more heat capacity).
- if it gets boat-like (an old Ford? Naw...), upgrade the shocks. Lots of aftermarket options including possibly some with helper springs.
- if it does start to sag in the back, there are a lot of bolt-in spring upgrade options.
- not hop too many curbs with it at maximum weight.

 

[SternWake]

That's the kind of real world experience I was hoping for! Now I can rest a bit easier

Being told what you want to hear is always soothing.

If you do ride at or exceed  GVWR often, please pay extra attention to the condition, age and PSI of your tires.  Check sidewalls for cracking often, and check pressure often, check for bulges in the tread or sidewall ( do not forget the interior of the tires under the vehicle) and be keen on feeling for new vibrations developing. Keep in mind a tire might still go without warning, even if one is vigilant, and a vehicle at or exceeding GVWR is not going to simply drift nice and slow off the road to a nice wide shoulder where one will be able to safely fix it and be on their way.

Tires loaded close to their load rating will be most dangerous at highways speeds in summer, and if the worst is to happen, it might not only negatively affect yourself.  The more age and mileage they have in such conditions, the more dangerous they could become.

Also keep in mind that 5 years is about the maximum one should run tires, no matter how much tread is left.  Sure tires Can go longer, but I do not think it is wise to push them to their limits  or on a public forum to say:
 "Just go for it, she'll be right mate."

She might be, or she might not.
  If not, then consequences might be severe.

 

[Svenn]

I'll upgrade the tires and get those brakes you recommended for sure. That should solve the actual DANGERS of overloading right? , even though I might still be inefficient and cause wear and tear on the axel, it will take care of the danger issue?

 

[highdesertranger]

no that doesn't solve the issues with overloading. the F150 has more in common with a T-Bird, then the other Ford trucks. going with some fancy brake pads is only going to wear your rotors out faster. if you heat up your rotors with ceramic pads your rotors will be toast. for sure go with load range E tires. highdesertranger

 

[mockturtle]

I drive at max payload all the time.

 

[BlackNBlue]

going with some fancy brake pads is only going to wear your rotors out faster. if you heat up your rotors with ceramic pads your rotors will be toast. for sure go with load range E tires. highdesertranger

True. More aggressive pads are pointless. You want bigger rotors and drums, primarily for more heat capacity. Higher-temp brake fluid (DOT 4 vs. DOT 3) and diligent brake fluid flushes will also help prevent fade.

In approximate order of failure likelihood from too much weight (assuming rear cargo only; there'll be some bearing down on the front axle but it's highly unlikely to be a factor for what you're doing):
- brakes may fade with a long hard stop. Like I said, more heat capacity is the remedy.
- tires may overheat and blow out if underinflated for the load, or if loaded or inflated beyond capacity, or if they're damaged or old.
- axle, depending on how overbuilt it is. While the axle housing itself is unlikely to bend or break, the wheel bearings can wear out from a combination of high speed and high weight, and the axleshafts may snap from a combination of high torque (acceleration) and high weight. The latter will mean either you can't move (if it's a full-floating type), or a wheel comes off and flies away with part of the axle still attached (if it's a semi-floating).
- the rest of the drivetrain (transmission internals, trans or engine mounts, driveshaft u-joints, rear differential) might fail from a combination of torque and weight. Accelerate gently and the likelihood of problems goes down.
- lugging too much weight uphill increases the load on the engine, and the likelihood of overheating. Again - drive gently and it won't be an issue.
- springs are unlikely to outright fail (if they do, it's very bad news because they also hold the axle in place), but you don't want them inverted or on the bump stops
- shocks are unlikely to outright fail (if they do, it's not a major safety issue, you'll just bounce a lot), but may wear out prematurely
- while it takes a whole awful lot of weight to bend or snap a frame, hitting a big bump real hard while overloaded just might do it (I read about it happening to an overloaded Toyota camper, being driven off-road way too rough).

 

[DannyB1954]

no that doesn't solve the issues with overloading.  the F150 has more in common with a T-Bird,  then the other Ford trucks.  going with some fancy brake pads is only going to wear your rotors out faster.  if you heat up your rotors with ceramic pads your rotors will be toast.  for sure go with load range E tires.  highdesertranger

It may wear the rotors quicker, but it also may stop the vehicle in the meantime. Working the brakes hard causes heat. You want a pad that can better handle the heat. A higher temp brake fluid is a good idea. Rotors don't cost that much for a 1/2 ton. I think I just paid something like $30 a piece. I never turn drums or rotors. The thinner they are the quicker they get hot and warp.