diesel or gas

[greg63]

well I will add my 2cents.  both gas and diesel and any other internal combustion engine works on the same principle.   the basic fire triangle.  fuel,  air,  heat.   the difference is that a gasser uses a sparkplug for the heat part,  a diesel uses the heat generated by compressing air.  older diesels are a much more simpler engine then gas engine.   however the newer ones are quite complex,  as are the gassers.  I personally do not like all the complexity that goes with modern engines gas or diesel,  I will trade a few mpg for reliability.  if I were to choose I would go with a pre computer diesel.  further more without getting political the price of diesel today is spiked because of the government, just like everything else.  west Texas intermediate can almost go from well to engine in the older engines.  the refinery cost are minimal.  this brings up another point the older diesels can run off a variety of fuels.  wvo,  wmo,  vo,  kero,  home heating oil,  etc.  if that's important to you.  my rant is over,  good luck.  highdesertranger

2017 will be the year i get a diesel or gas,so i will see what they have then,unless i win the lottery before then and i like chevy vans they have the new diesel,they are like 6000 extra,the 2015..but you guys really gave me something to think about and study.thanks very very much for your input on this matter and happy trails.hope to meet some of you in 2017,stay safe and free...greg63

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'll give you one last thing to think about.

As of right now, the ultra low sulfur diesel is not available south of the border.  There is a lot of controversy over in the mainstream rv forums about taking diesel rvs to Baja or other parts of Mexico for the winter.  Does the old "dirty" diesel damage the new engines, and, if so, how much?  Does using it void the factory warranty?

Good unleaded gas is available pretty much everywhere these days, there's no problem getting it anywhere in Mexico or Central and South America.

Depending on your plans, this may or may not be a factor for you to consider.

Regards
John

 

[greg63]

I'll give you one last thing to think about.

As of right now, the ultra low sulfur diesel is not available south of the border.  There is a lot of controversy over in the mainstream rv forums about taking diesel rvs to Baja or other parts of Mexico for the winter.  Does the old "dirty" diesel damage the new engines, and, if so, how much?  Does using it void the factory warranty?

Good unleaded gas is available pretty much everywhere these days, there's no problem getting it anywhere in Mexico or Central and South America.

Depending on your plans, this may or may not be a factor for you to consider.

Regards
John

 

[greg63]

After much thought i may just go with gas,Would love to go back to mexico,but as things heat up there with all thats going on i wouldnt visit.
i know many still do, its a risk iwouldnt take for some time.and your right what about the factory warranty.Thanks again John..

 

[HarmonicaBruce]

Diesel engines last at least twice as long as gasoline engines.  That's because (imho) gasoline washes the oil off the cylinder walls and allows the rings to wear.  Diesel fuel lubricates, so the rings and valves don't wear as much.  

But, gas is cheaper than diesel, and who cares if a diesel engine will go 600,000 miles?  Of course the government removing all the sulfur from diesel means they make less power, and having to add DEF is a pita, and costly.  By the way, the oil change interval for my (diesel) sprinter is 15,000 miles.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'll jump in   

The big reasons I went gas rather than diesel:

1. Actual cost per mile to drive.  For me fuel cost is only about 60% of my driving cost, so savings from mileage improvements are not realized for ~150,000 miles.  
2. Weight.  Diesels weigh more, so for an equivalent truck, your payload is less. 

IMHO, I would stay away from the new diesels until they have some history.  Seems like car companies have figured out that it is cheaper to pay warranty costs (and let the early adopters do their testing) than paying for thorough testing.

And yes, you can fix newer vehicles (gas and diesel), but it takes more model specific knowledge and specialized tools.  Most of the electronic stuff now is not (reasonably) fixable or even diagnosed.  It is made to throw away and replace.

 -- Spiff

 

[greg63]

Diesel engines last at least twice as long as gasoline engines.  That's because (imho) gasoline washes the oil off the cylinder walls and allows the rings to wear.  Diesel fuel lubricates, so the rings and valves don't wear as much.  

But, gas is cheaper than diesel, and who cares if a diesel engine will go 600,000 miles?  Of course the government removing all the sulfur from diesel means they make less power, and having to add DEF is a pita, and costly.  By the way, the oil change interval for my (diesel) sprinter is 15,000 miles

Thats alot of miles HarmonicaBruce so youre pretty happy with your diesel..Iguess i would have to think about the cost but maybe save money in the long run,Thanks

 

[greg63]

I hope im putting these posts here in the right way im learning

 

[greg63]

Sounds like a good idea spiff..thanks

 

[highdesertranger]

how many times do I have to post this. diesel has been cheaper than gas in Kalifornia for the last 3 years. Mexico diesel will not harm an older diesel engines in anyway unless it's loaded with water. Mexico unleaded is suspect at best. highdesertranger

 

[Seraphim]

Diesel engines last at least twice as long as gasoline engines.  That's because (imho) gasoline washes the oil off the cylinder walls and allows the rings to wear.  Diesel fuel lubricates, so the rings and valves don't wear as much.  

But, gas is cheaper than diesel, and who cares if a diesel engine will go 600,000 miles?  Of course the government removing all the sulfur from diesel means they make less power, and having to add DEF is a pita, and costly.  By the way, the oil change interval for my (diesel) sprinter is 15,000 miles.

Diesel engines operate at a much lower engine speed.  It takes 3000 rpm in my gasser to maintain 65 mph, but only about 1500 rpm in my diesel. Less wear on the cylinder wall.

 

[Seraphim]

I'll jump in   

The big reasons I went gas rather than diesel:

1. Actual cost per mile to drive.  For me fuel cost is only about 60% of my driving cost, so savings from mileage improvements are not realized for ~150,000 miles.  
2. Weight.  Diesels weigh more, so for an equivalent truck, your payload is less. 

IMHO, I would stay away from the new diesels until they have some history.  Seems like car companies have figured out that it is cheaper to pay warranty costs (and let the early adopters do their testing) than paying for thorough testing.

And yes, you can fix newer vehicles (gas and diesel), but it takes more model specific knowledge and specialized tools.  Most of the electronic stuff now is not (reasonably) fixable or even diagnosed.  It is made to throw away and replace.

 -- Spiff

Just wanted to point out for the OP that payload ( inside the truck) is less, but towing capacity is far greater.  Our truck, for example, has a payload capacity of 5500 pounds. With a gas engine, no 4x4, and with other considerations, the same suspensioned truck could have a payload of 6300 pounds.  We don't carry that much stuff, so it's not an issue. We can tow 23,000 lbs, well over twice, iirc , what the gas version could tow.   Whatever you decide to go with, know the vehicles capacities, and choose according to your projected use  .  We don't NEED a diesel; we LIKE the diesel.  In five years, we may not be able to climb in and out of of or truck camper, but we can handle any size trailer we may want in the future., or decide to add a heavy trailer behind the TC. The diesel engine, at an estimated 140k miles by then,  will still be in good mechanicals shape, so I wont have to consider replacing the truck. A gas engine with that many miles, as we travel, would cause me a lot of hesitation.

 

[idn88]

A lot of info, but one of the things I don't think that got mentioned was that diesels are not great for short trips. They have done all kinds of things to make diesels run better when cold (better glow plugs for starting, more sophisticated computer controlled injectors, etc) but at the end of the day diesels really don't run efficiently cold - they burn more fuel cold, they carbon the sensors, they knock worse wearing out internal engine components - etc. While gassers aren't perfect on short trips either, they are much better than diesel. So if your average trip is 10 miles or less (or maybe even a lot more, the numbers aren't really established anywhere) then you are more likely better off with gas.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

The diesel engine, at an estimated 140k miles by then,  will still be in good mechanicals shape, so I wont have to consider replacing the truck. A gas engine with that many miles, as we travel, would cause me a lot of hesitation.

My last truck (1997 Dodge 1500, 4X4, 5.3L, manual transmission) went 300,000 miles.  Only major repair was an intake manifold vacuum leak.  The body fell apart; Minnesota winters are hard on bodies, mine and the trucks    You can get more miles out of a diesel, but the rest of the truck may not be up to the task.  YMMV

 -- Spiff

 

[highdesertranger]

spaceman you know what they say about dodge trucks with a Cummings engine. a 10k motor in a 10 cent truck. highdesertranger

 

[GotSmart]

spaceman you know what they say about dodge trucks with a Cummings engine.  a 10k motor in a 10 cent truck.  highdesertranger

My mother always used to say, What do THEY know.  

A great number of members here have Dodge products.  Trashing a manufacturer is not right.  Exposing a specific product is OK.  If you know of a specific model of Dodge with specific problems, please let us know. Otherwise, the old Ford Dodge Chevy schoolyard Neener Neener will not fly. 

Not many vehicles will last in Minnesota, no matter who made them.

 

[Roadlamb]

I just picked up a 2013 F350. She will tow up 19K. I don't plan on buying anything that big. Our future trailer will be around 12 to 15k wet. The rest I went big on the truck is , breaking. Nice big rotors. Stopping is just as important as power. F350 is gas.

 

[Canine]

Biggest thing for a new truck or van buyer is economics. If you are buying brand new sometime next year or 2017, without knowing what will happen to oil prices, new technology etc, you have the cost of the motor to deal with. It ranges from (6 or 8 cylinder) about 5K to nearly 8K over the base gas now. The upgrade gas may cost 1-1.5K. Ford has a stouter eco boost that is about a 1.5K option with torque numbers rivaling diesels.

As someone else said, your truck payload is decreased due to the weight of the diesel (several hundred pounds diff). If you are a trailer tower then by all means consider a diesel, if you just run a van (this is the van forum, right?) then the benefits of the diesel are questionable. Availability of a diesel in a van isn't high either. Occasionally there's an old Chevy 6.5 or a ford 7.3, and I've seen one ford 6.0, but otherwise nothing else in a van. No dodge vans had diesels, 95% or higher of all other vans are gas. So if buying used, good luck finding one. You reduce your choices so much by wanting a diesel van.

Spend some time on the ford and GM diesel forums to learn some of the ins and outs and costs associated with diesels, and remember that any van diesel is automatically de tuned as opposed to a pickup diesel. Same with gas, later modular ford econoline engines are 2 valve while their trucks are 3 valve. Head clearance is part of the issue.

Want a new van with diesel? Look at the dodge promaster or ford transit with the European diesels.
There's always a sprinter as well. Best advice is read the diesel forums, not ours.

 

[Seraphim]

My last truck (1997 Dodge 1500, 4X4, 5.3L, manual transmission) went 300,000 miles.  Only major repair was an intake manifold vacuum leak.  The body fell apart; Minnesota winters are hard on bodies, mine and the trucks    You can get more miles out of a diesel, but the rest of the truck may not be up to the task.  YMMV

 -- Spiff

The body work is easy enough (for me) to keep up on. From my pov, a leak along the intake manifold isn't a major repair - although with all the extra crap attached to the engines these days, GETTING to the intake manifold can be a PIA lol. And some of these front wheel drive cars require pulling the manifold to get to some of the spark plugs.  Getting to the point of having to pull the pistons becomes major.  Sounds like you had good fortune with yours. But personally, I won't buy a gas engined car with 100k on it.  I'd have much less reservations about a diesel; and the Allison transmission is considered bullet proof.  I do expect modern bodies to hold up much better, as well. But, as I said, we don't NEED a diesel. But every time. I push the accelerator down, I'm glad I've got it.

 

[Seraphim]

As for manufacture, a man who likes Ford will buy a Ford. A man who likes GM, will buy a GM. A man who likes Dodge, will buy anything. *grin*

And yes, I've heard that one with each manufacturer being the butt of the joke.