Devil's advocate argument - Why bother with solar? Change my mind.

[NomadicFoodie]

I'm not a solar tech, or an electrician, nor a mechanic, or particularly handy, though I have good "bush skills" and am more organized than the average.
I'm TERRIBLE at math.
I'm trying to get my head around solar for a potential gasoline ProMaster. I know I will want a simple fridge, and a power greedy microwave and AC. Maybe an instapot. I'll want Heat when it's cold, and hot water showers about 2x a week at most.The rest I think I can run off my Jackery 500 which I can buy a solar panel for as a backup. I would like the capacity to go off grid for 2+ weeks and not move.
What's wrong (other than environmentally) with just using the engine to drive it all? An invertor seems a good idea (hazy about what it does) The AC in a ProMaster is decent, can I pipe it into the back for a few hours when in the desert midday sun? Can't I heat hot water via the engine? Turn on the engine when I need to run the microwave or heat the van on a cold morning? What's wrong with an extra gas tank, a big alternator and shit ton of batteries? I just watched a friend try to solar power a S&B with 2 $80 solar panels and not get results as promised...
Flex panels pool water, and crystal panels shatter from weather and stones...
Panels are not stealth. They lie about delivery. Gasoline seems a good solution. Gas propane I am not comfotable with other than a mini camper stove.
Please change my mind.
Thanks for listening!

 

[B and C]

A portable generator will serve you much better than trying to use the vans alternator (low wattage compared to the loads you want).

 

[bullfrog]

Times two on a generator preferably one that runs on propane as there is less maintenance required especially if you want electricity for AC and heat. Just get a really quiet one and realize none of them are quiet enough. Tow a Prius with a 3000 watt inverter professionally installed powered by the big battery so you have a very economical car and generator that you can plug in your van to. Heating anything with solar power is a big deal which is why so many people that don’t like using propane do.

 

[NomadicFoodie]

The Prius is way beyond my budget, the van will be a stretch, but beacuse I have time, I am shopping from wants to needs, so likely I will be on the road with basics. Sounds like a good generator is a choice with re-sale value once I learn more. Thinking Fatbike electric as a second vehicle.

 

[doublegregg]

i'm poor at math, and just trying to get my solar up...uh, in vitro. so a newbie. why are you using a microwave? even bob wells, who uses one, points out what a power hog it is. i don't even own one at my home. it's only good for heating things up, or steaming. and it's FAST. that's about the only good things about it. no offense. i'm a total foodie. oh, i read your post further... ok, you don't like propane stoves... there's alcohol, but that's half the btu of gas. you want stealth, so no panels on top. i want stealth too, and i got a cargo van, which would have potentially very visible panels.

yeah, i'm at the same point, sort of, but i am trying solar, but do not no how it'll fit in w stealth. i do have a 300w collapsible dokio panel... $250???... 20#.

 

[highdesertranger]

I don't think you realize how long you have to drive at highway speeds to recharge a depleted battery. sitting there idling ain't going to cut it.

heating anything with electricity is very inefficient and expensive.
trying to use your alternator as your sole charge source is very inefficient.

it's always cheaper/easier to conserve energy then it is to make it.

I vote for a generator or a drastic rethink on what you actually need to run off of electricity.

highdesertranger

 

[JerryJ]

Sitting idling can be dangerous due to the possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning. I'm not saying it can't be done, but a CO monitor would be necessary for safety. The Prius is a different beast, only running the engine for a few minutes at a time to charge the high voltage battery which runs the AC, but even then a CO monitor is smart!

Solar will pay for itself compared to just about any generator setup, and if mounted on the roof, it frees up most of the space a generator takes (batteries will still need space, but usually not as much as a generator, and don't need to be easily accessible like the generator does). Many camping areas don't allow generators, and in dispersed camping areas they don't make you any friends due to the noise. The biggest debate is will battery costs be more or less than fuel plus maintenance costs on a generator.

You can run a propane on demand water heater that requires very little electricity.

Your sticky issue is your desire to run AC. That will require a lot of solar, and is the one reason you might do better with a generator. I leave that to those with experience.

 

[bullfrog]

There are a lot of compromises to be made and new skills learned unless you are really good at and happy with all the manual labor involved in using your bush skills and living very simply and remotely. I recommend you buy a National Parks Pass and spend nights on nearby BLM land if you want hot water showers and don’t want to use propane. Truck stops also sell showers. Once the gyms open up you can get a membership and shower there also as that works for many. There are microwaves in most gas stations and outlets at almost any lodge that hosts fishing tournaments, all you need is an extension cord. For heat and AC you will just have to have a good sleeping bag and move to higher elevations when it gets to hot realizing there will be days you won’t be comfortable unless you find an open library,visitor center or just swim in the lake a lot. There is a cost to a higher standard of living many of which are hidden like fuel and maintenance costs. A generator and propane appliances or figuring out where and how you can afford to plug in are about as good as you will be able to do without developing a lot of new skills. The main reason people use solar is to avoid buying ice.

 

[Firebuild]

If you've ever had the battery drain after a night of leaving the ignition or the lights on accidentally, then you already know why using your starting battery to power what is essentially a household's worth of appliances is a bad idea. Those draws are tiny compared to what you are proposing. The math involved in the juggling act between driving and discharging is going to be a lot more complicated than solar would be. A generator would work but for me, I'm not into carrying a giant gas can I can't even lift around with me. For me, solar is the easiest solution. It took me a little while to figure out exactly how much battery and panel I needed but now that I have it I never think about it, honestly. It's just power that's there when I need it.

 

[jonyjoe303]

For solar you need a decent size panel to make it worthwhile, I was never happy with a small 120 watt panel (6 amps), but with a larger 240 watt panel and mppt controller (12 amps) that gave me real power. I got it to fit on my small astrovan and will easily fit on a promaster, maybe even a larger 280 panel will fit there. Even lying flat on the roof I get 12 amps during the hottest part of the day. 12 amps will easily charge up your jackery, I use it to keep my 220ah lifepo4 topped off and also to charge my 31ah and 74ah li-ion battery packs.

With 240 watts you can run all your fans, roof vents, charge your batteries, run a fridge,lights,laptops and for me i use a 12 volt roadpro to heat up all my food, it takes anywhere from 15 minutes to 25 minutes to heat up most foods and uses about 5 amps during that time. the 12 volt fridge I hotglued foam insulation to the exterior and was able to get it to maintain 12 degrees f with only using 24ah in 24 hours. It keeps my food frozen at that temp with minimal power.



My solar panel takes care of all my needs, In 8 years I never needed to connect to the alternator. 4 L brackets is all you need to install one. I paid 200 dollars for the panel and another 100 dollars for the mppt controller, that was 8 years ago and panel still in good condition producing power everyday. No buying fuel, no setting anything up, it just works.

 

[B and C]

My solar panel takes care of all my needs, In 8 years I never needed to connect to the alternator. 4 L brackets is all you need to install one. I paid 200 dollars for the panel and another 100 dollars for the mppt controller, that was 8 years ago and panel still in good condition producing power everyday. No buying fuel, no setting anything up, it just works.

You did not take into her account for the need of an instant pot, microwave, air conditioning and heating water using an inverter or the van engine.


Forgot to add that 2 solar panels will not supply any significant amount of power to a S&B.  No wonder it failed.  Poor planning.

 

[LoupGarou]

There’s a lot of GoalZero haters out there. But I’m going to toss in a GoalZero Yeti vehicle integration video.

With a GoalZero Yeti 3000, as long as the total input power is less than 750watts, you can recharge using the vehicle alternator, solar panels and shore power all at the same time.

 

[B and C]

We are still back to charging it via alternator. No solar and no shore power. It will not run her loads for two weeks.

 

[bullfrog]

There is no magic solution for overcoming the convenience of living on the grid to boondocking and being your own power company. The technology isn’t good enough, small enough or cheap enough yet make off grid living comparable to living on the grid. Change or compromise is necessary in order to adapt to an acceptable traveling lifestyle. As crazy as the Prius idea is, it is what has worked for sticks and bricks owners during extended power outages. It actually costs less to fuel than most Honda generators and is probably quieter. If they made a generator with a battery bank that was computer controlled like the Prius is that I could afford that would solve a lot of living off grid problems.

 

[jacqueg]

OP, you won't be able to run all your desired items from the starting battery. It's not what your car's ignition system is designed to do. It's also not good for your engine to idle it for hours on end.

You will either have to scale back on what you want, or carry a generator. And once you've got a generator, you will find that you might as well throw on a couple solar panels too.

Now you COULD just carry backpacking/camping equipment and use your vehicle as a sort of mobile tent. There are rechargeable gadgets that can be charged from your vehicle's 12v plug, which will mean that you don't have to do without lights and other useful things. But there are no microwaves for backpackers.

You simply can't get way with ignoring math. The things you want to run require X amount of watts/amps. To get what you want, you will have to devise a system that supplies X amount of watts/amps.

Try following this video. Watch it several times if you have to.

 

[Chiffed]

So I'm hearing the 11th Commandment: Thou Shan't Mess With Thine Starting Battery. Tough to call for jump when you're miles from nowhere.
I'm glad my power expectations are pretty low - charging mobile electronics, a few watts of light, and a fan (for now, of course... I'm also willing to change my mind!). I won't do refrigeration until I have the solar and batts to support it.

Let's not forget aesthetics: Solar panels just keep working in silence, at whatever efficiency the day brings. Nothing to remember, nothing to crank up, nothing to drown out the sound of the birds or the snorting of that bear at the treeline.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok I just deleted a whole series of posts. one bad one and then 5 or 6 others that commented on the bad one.

this is how this works if somebody puts up a post that is going to get deleted and you quote that post or comment about that post or just refer to that post your post will also get deleted.

please if you must comment on about a bad post please do it in a PM to a Mod.

highdesertranger