Dealing with awnings, tents and high winds

[Leaky roof]

So it’s time to pay forward for all the blooming good tips / ideas / thoughts / information, that I’ve “stolen” from this forum.

Being informed – knowing the theory / background really does help when faced with “what does one do”...

Having spent time in a company that made <amongst other spring products> tent pegs, being related to my passion, I made a point of studying the theory behind tent pegs, and I humbly think, it may have value to somebody... If not now, perhaps in the future.

Trying to keep things very simple: -

There are 2 groups of tent stakes. Solid stakes and dynamic stakes.

An example of a shock stake would be a simple straight piece of iron driven into the ground. It has no shock absorbing ability, and relies on the integrity – strength of the rest of the attachment (rope,  eyelet, tent material, and ability to remain in the ground to do its job.
Shock force also causes the peg to enlarge the hole around the stake that’s in the ground, and eventually it will fail. All too often, this tendency is overcome by using much longer stakes.

That then places undue strain on the rest of the attachment and eventually, another link fails... The grommet detaches, the tent material tears.... If common sense is used when selecting  rope, it’s very seldom that the rope actually breaks...

The effect of shock force is sudden and immediate and to explain simply, far more “damaging” than dynamic force. Those who are familiar with kinetic recovery and tug-recovery will get the picture, but for purposes of here it can be likened to 5 times more damaging
When faced with high winds, the worst stake to use is a straight – shock stake.

Now for dynamic stakes..
Dynamic stakes absorb all or some shock force and “convert” it into dynamic or moving force. This reduces the damaging effect on the whole assembly. Obviously up to a point, then the force is of such a magnitude that even the dynamic stake acts in the same way as a shock stake.

There are ways of mitigating that point but I’ll get to that in time.

So for now, here is a sketch of a typical dynamic type of stake, often referred to as the angled or dog-leg stake  and it’s anatomy...

 

[highdesertranger]

I use a variety of heavy duty stakes.  for my main stakes I use these,



I also use bungee cords as shock absorbers.  you need to adjust the size of the bungee to the shock load.  it does no good to use a heavy duty bungee on a light weight tent fly,  just as it does no good to use a light weight bungee on a heavy tarp.

highdesertranger

 

[ckelly78z]

I like the idea of a spring loaded "dynamic" stake for use on our awning. You can have the toughest stake made, but the canvas will rip, or a grommet will fail, thanks for the ideas.

 

[MrNoodly]

When dealing with rocky soil, especially "desert pavement", any stake where the pounding surface is a bend, you'll get frustrated and maybe mangle a finger or two. That's why I use stakes made from rebar. Pound those suckers all you want. And to help them go in I'll use a long masonry bit in my cordless drill to make a pilot hole and nudge rocks out of the way (or to discover there's no way a stake can go in at that spot).

 

[B and C]

I use bungee cords in concert with rebar stakes on my awning. The stakes don't move and are somewhat easily removed and the bungees provide plenty of shock control.

 

[rm.w/aview]

Good points all. I also use a twisted nylon line that has an inherent ability to stretch more than the braided types of line which helps with the shock load. I've found the two common fail points to be ground & grommet, but the right purchase can alleviate these. Leaky roof, you have kick started my brain into a DIY & maybe some experiments based on your post, not like I don't have the time

 

[MrNoodly]

The stakes don't move and are somewhat easily removed...

I remove them by hitting then side to side a couple of times, then they lift right out.

 

[B and C]

^^^Exactly. They don't just pull out but require a little bit of banging and sometimes twisting, hence somewhat.

 

[Qxxx]

I've not tried this, but since a lot of people talk about tarps tearing and grommets pulling out, I've been thinking that besides some shock-absorption on the guy lines, one might tie a parallel cord alongside the sides of the tarp, so the cord actually takes the strain rather than the tarp material and the grommets. Proper cord length adjustment should reduce wind flapping by the tarp. Just a little bit of stretch in the tarp material, but not too much.

An alternate scheme might have the entire structure constructed using the cords for the side pieces, and then a couple of corners of the tarp attached by bungees.

 

[highdesertranger]

for smooth stakes with a flange by the head just put the pointed end of a pick under the flange and step on the wide end while pulling on the handle.. even the most stubborn stakes pop right out. no hitting them with a hammer or doing anything that might work up a sweat.

work smarter not harder.

here's a little story about staking down tarps, I have posted it here before but I will repost it.

so we were out hunting Oregon Sunstones, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone . we set up my tarp using my rack on my truck and my military tent poles. as we put out the guy lines for the poles there was one stake we couldn't get into the ground because of the underlying basalt. so I broke out the hammer drill and drilled a hole to pound the stake into. all was good.

later that afternoon, after a day of collecting Sunstones we were sitting in the shade under the tarp enjoying a beer. when a huge dust devil came right at us. right through camp it came, a direct hit. well that dust devil wanted to suck that tarp right to outer space it seemed like. it picked up that pole and that piece of basalt like it was a marshmallow on a stick. that chunk of rock was like 5foot x 5foot and a foot thick ant it picked it right up at least a foot and slammed it back down. me and my buddy sat there and looked at each other in amazement, then we took another sip of beer and laughed,

highdesertranger

 

[Qxxx]

"it picked it right up at least a foot and slammed it back down"

Interesting, you must have a very heavy tarp. Heavy duty canvas? One might expect most plastic tarps would be torn to bits in that situation.

Another ploy occurred to me. Most patio umbrellas anymore have a little cupola on top that allows wind to escape. So some sort of jury-rigged vents might be useful to hack into in a boondocker tarp. I was planning to try out some tarp hacks on my next trip, soon as my strained hip from the last trip feels better.

 

[highdesertranger]

it's a extremely heavy duty tarp. it's some type of rubberized canvas. like what they make high quality inflatable boats out of. it is 24x17ft. I looked into replacement costs recently and the were 1500 bucks and up. so yes it is a very heavy duty tarp. highdesertranger

 

[rm.w/aview]

well that dust devil wanted to suck that tarp right to outer space it seemed like. it picked up that pole and that piece of basalt like it was a marshmallow on a stick. that chunk of rock was like 5foot x 5foot and a foot thick ant it picked it right up at least a foot and slammed it back down. me and my buddy sat there and looked at each other in amazement, then we took another sip of beer and laughed



You handled THAT well

 

[MrNoodly]

I have two tarps. One is the typical plastic coated fiber type I use for wet weather (which I avoid). The other is camo netting. It's less likely to act like a sail yet still provides enough shade, like a tree.

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/1fFrtYp/shade1w.jpg" alt="shade1w" border="0" /></a>

 

[mert3957]

" then we took another sip of beer and laughed,"

Best advice in the whole thread, highdesertranger. I'm finding your input on various subjects to be invaluable as I study the Forum for when I actually become a full time nomad. What I'm mainly getting is "make room for plenty of beer."

 

[tx2sturgis]

Speaking of awnings, has anyone here tried using keder rails? My new trailer has keder railing and it's handy for attaching small awnings to the top of the wall or edge of the roof.  

The trouble is, it's hard to find local sources here for the welt and the rails....you have to order it, and long aluminum keder rails would be more expensive to ship. Plus, finding small tarps or awnings with keder welt on one edge is next to impossible.

I think its more common for sailboats and for tents and awnings in Europe. 

A couple of sources I found:

https://www.kedersolutions.com/what-is-keder/#faq

https://www.keder.com/hardwaremain.html

And some examples:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=keder+awnings&iax=images&ia=images

I found this short video that helps visualize how it works:

 

[Qxxx]

" What I'm mainly getting is "make room for plenty of beer." "

"It's always something" in the boondocks, so relax and enjoy the show.

I think they were probably happy the big piece of rock didn't come down on them. When HDR settles into camp, it must look like a small town has bloomed. I remember a picture of a 30' flatbed trailer, a huge canvas walled tent, and now a 24x17' tarp that can lift a car. That tarp would fill up my whole van.

Wind is definitely a problem with awnings. A year ago, I was camped in Death Valley, Furnace Creek, and a big wind came up in the daytime. When I got back to camp, there were a bunch of awnings on the sides of RVs that were blasted to bits. The people were gone for the day in their tow vehicles and had left the awnings up.

 

[highdesertranger]

yep, never, never leave a RV awning up. always have some one present that is paying attention and knows how to fold it up.

notice I said paying attention and knows how to fold it up. two very important criteria.

highdesertranger

 

[highdesertranger]

I am not sure I understand what you are asking, wider flare? here's the company of the ones I use,

https://americanearthanchors.com/

they come in many different styles, lengths, etc.

highdesertranger

 

[Leaky roof]

I'm going to try
Sorry everyone, I lost my post and have referred it to the moderator, something about pics..

Hope this post works, I'll have to try again tomorrow