Choosing a step van

[John61CT]

5.9L Cummins compressed-natural-gas engines, including this one: https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/1998-FREIGHTLINER-MT45-114927500

What is the "bay", like usable interior space behind the driver?

How does this translate?

Length: 21'10" Width: 7'8" Height: 10' 

Anyone seen aftermarket passenger seats get put in? Cops, insurance?

 

[KarlH]

What is the "bay", like usable interior space behind the driver?

I think so.

Anyone seen aftermarket passenger seats get put in?

I haven't, but the dealership I visited offered to do it. You can also find a lot of vans that already have fold-up seats or full passenger seats:

https://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/d/eugene-1993-chevy-step-van-food-truck/6752495538.html

(Not sure what the body is made of or what engine it has, but it's a Chevy with 52,000 miles and an asking price of $8,600.)

Cops, insurance?

You mean 'will it attract the cops' attention when you're camping in the city?' I guess I'll be able to tell you after I build one...

I was just in Illinois and saw the 'no overnight parking' sings at the highway rest stops, and I thought "That's easy, I'll just get a night job and sleep there during the day"   :angel:

 

[John61CT]

No I meant aftermarket passenger seats added.

I assume a DIY may have issues being legal, or wrt insurance covering an accident even more so.

 

[ssminnow]

wrt insurance, John you're worse than my Cat. What don't you get about not using abbreviations all the time?? I've seen the Mods jump on you about it numerous times but you can't figure it out. It's almost to the point that i see your name and blow right by it . Thanks for ruining my reading enjoyment because i have to try and figure your crap out!!!! You are selfish as hell,ruining other peoples threads like that. (Rant Over) Mod's ,please delete this! I'm sorry

 

[KarlH]

Freightliner MT45 with 100,000 miles on its Cummins 6BT and new-ish injectors for $3,800:

https://jackson.craigslist.org/cto/d/wesson-freightliner-mt45-step-van/6776649228.html

200,000 miles on the rest of the truck and spray foam insulation in the bay. Seller says that it will probably sell tomorrow, so I likely won't be able to take a look at it, but maybe one of you wants to snap it up

Edit: He says the first buyer gets it.

 

[KarlH]

I have a diesel cummins 5.9 (6bt) and highly recommend the engine.

That was probably a smart choice. The 4BT looks a little underpowered for a large van like your Freightliner.

How efficient is it when you drive?

mine has zero digital components and very easy to work on.

A big plus for a lot of us. You have to go back to 1993 to get a fully mechanical GM diesel, and 1994 for International.

 

[wayne49]

@ssminnow,
This forum has an ignore specific users function. Improves readability of the threads.

 

[KarlH]

My Grumman Olson is the 16 foot box, 7 foot ceiling, powered by the Cummins 4BT. 16 mpg with 3,000 pounds of load, 17-18 mgp with less.

I missed this when you posted it because I went straight to your photo and the paragraph about your build. It sounds like you got a great truck.

It's impressive that it did all of that while going over the mountains on the highway.

 

[KarlH]

I found an old bread van with less than 90,000 miles, a Cummins 4BT, manual transmission and an 18x8x8' bay with swing doors in back.

The seller warned me that it has the wrong gearing in the differential, but he says that it will still get up to 65 MPH. (He claimed that most bread vans with that engine received it as a retrofit, and said that this van still has the old gasser differential.)

The other caveat is that it sat a lot in the last 15-20 years. The engine runs, but there are apparently mild smoothness issues.

I'm still learning about what can go wrong with diesels and not sure how worried to be about those weaknesses.

 

[AlongTheBackroads]

Hello all,

I guess I might as well join the fray. All comments welcomed. I'm considering the following: 1978 Chevy P30, Inline 4.8L, 3spd auto TH400, 82k original miles (barn find), 12' cargo, 6' ceiling. The current owner was going to convert but bought a Sprinter instead (you can see it behind the van in the attached picture).

The good - All aluminum body in great shape, barn doors, low mileage, classic step van look.
The not so good - Engine and tranny 40+ years old, tranny leaks a little and reverse gets funky when fluid is low (typical TH400), geared "for in town use" (I'm pretty sure I know what he means by that), crappy mpg.

He (the current owner) had budgeted $10k for a diesel and tranny swap which I don't have. A small block is what I would be able to do.

I'm drooling over this but I think I might be biting off more than I can chew. Listed for $3.5k.

Hit me with your best thoughts.

Rick

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I have 1986 10 foot box which makes it a 1 ton, single rear wheels, that one is a bit bigger maybe a three ton and heavier, not sure I have the same engine mine is a 292 ci in line six which may be a 4.8 ltr and a three speed auto like this one.. It is geared to cruise at 50 to 55 if this doesn’t bother you, then it goes well other wise. They are a bit noisy, you can improve that with some sound proofing and insulation but they are still a bit noisy due to large windshield and sitting on the wheel wells.. I like mine and have had it for almost 10 years. If I was to buy today I think I might buy a hightop Savana or something like that maybe, The advantages, you have a lot of living space you get the funky look, easy to build out, parts are easily available and repairs are simple other then being a bit heavy. The down side mpg, I get about 14 mpg, you will get less with the extra weight and double wheels, a bit tiring to drive long distance, but doable if you like back roads, and not in a hurry, fun to drive around town or on back roads with side doors open . If you are not planning on travelling super long distances very often this is a funky looking vehicle but you will stand out and that will ruin your stealth to a degree. Parked in a city you stand out in a line of parked cars due to the height but so does a high top van of any sorts, I had to redue the brakes including all the lines, the rad was shot, all the hoses, complete exhaust system. The transmission leak could be a coolant line or fitting, they are meant to be good engines if it is the 292 they are legendary and still easy to get. I like the looks of that one it looks cool mine is a Grumman so bit different grill, and hood. If you have the skills or are willing to spend a couple of thousand or more on repairs, whatever you pay for it will not matter in a few years. Mine was sitting for four years when I bought it so it needed a lot of attention luckily I could do most of it slowly over time. The alluminium alone is worth a fair amount

 

[AlongTheBackroads]

I have 1986 10 foot box which makes it a 1 ton, single rear wheels, that one is a bit bigger maybe a three ton and heavier, not sure I have the same engine mine is a 292 ci in line six which may be a 4.8 ltr and a three speed auto like this one...

It sounds like the same engine. The current owner did quite a bit of work to it like you did as well as beefing up the suspension. The longest trip would most likely be when things wrap up in Ohio and I head back west. Once there I imagine the travel would mainly be bouncing around the western/southwestern states. And as far as the stealth factor goes, I'm really not too concerned about it. It will have solar panels, a roof vent and maybe even a low profile deck on top (i.e. not very stealthy!) My goal is to avoid large cities unless absolutely necessary anyway so it is what it is, or will be.

A diesel would be nice, but I don't have the money to do a major refit, and traveling the "blue highways" doing 55 is fine with me. I am however, looking into replacing it with a small block in the future but I haven't done any serious research yet. The one thing I wrestle with is the mobility of a high top conversion van like a Chevy Express and the better mpg, but then I think of the space on the inside and yes, the coolness of the step van style. And I just dig the idea of cruising along with the doors slid open.   I appreciate the information you gave me on your set up. Makes me feel a little better about things.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

That one is longer, wider and taller then mine so it will be a. great space to live out of once you got it set up, with insulation, heat windows etc. .. there are plenty of pics of mine on this forum somewhere if you look around you will find them, haven’t posted any pictures in several years, things have changed a bit but the the general layout is the same just added, improved or upgraded things.

 

[AlongTheBackroads]

The only pics I came across were of partitions and the bulkhead, and those looked pretty impressive. I'll keep looking but if you did solar/vents on top I'd really like to see those. I'm interested in roof layouts, specifically whether a small deck if feasible with 300w of solar and vent(s).

 

[flying kurbmaster]

You have plenty of room for 300 watts of  solar,vents, chimneys and a dance floor up there

 

[AlongTheBackroads]

lol

 

[KarlH]

The down side mpg, I get about 14 mpg, you will get less with the extra weight and double wheels...

Regarding the dualies, are you talking about aerodynamics?

I knew a guy who was on the University of Minnesota's solar car team, and he said that adding fairings around the wheels made a bigger difference than most of the other tricks they tried. They were using motorcycle tires that were already semi-aerodynamic, so it might make an even bigger difference with car tires. The fairings have to extend down as far as possible, so that means they need to go up and down with the

 

[JD GUMBEE]

The gas engine versions will be cheaper to get and cheaper to maintain. If you're not going to be towing a cargo trailer along with you, don't bother getting a deisel. If you do, however, don't bother with any of the ones powered by GM deisels. The 6.5 liter GM unit puts out minimal power and has breakage issues. Stick with only Cummins motors or the Ford 7.3 Powerstroke from 1997 onward.

Uuuhhh...sorry, your info here is way out of line.
The non-turbo 6.2/6.5 diesels in the step vans are actually an EXCELLENT engine with a few caveats.
1. They dont have the balls of a B series Cummins (which is, by far, the top dog in this class)
2. They have a few years with the troublesome pump...but if you ensure it went to a hard ring/mechanical, the fuel delivery systems are pretty much as good as it gets.

BECAUSE they kept them "low stress" the 6.2 did VERY well in a step van and would easily run 75MPH HWY. The L80 you will find behind most is one of the toughest and most trouble free transmissions out there in that weight class.

The average class A with 454 power would get SMOKED by a non-turbo 6.5 step van in every way. (Including my own 32 footer.)
My own 6.5 non-turbo step van/L80 would roast it accelerating, higher top speed and a LOT better MPG.

A low mile 6.2/6.5 can be an unbelievable bargain in a step van, precisely due to comments like yours (which are grossly misleading)

 

[JD GUMBEE]

flying kurbmaster said: "The 4bts are rumoured to get 18 to 20 mpg in the smaller step vans. "

Installed in a 1991 E150, over 300,000 miles+ of highway driving, the average for my brand new from Cummins $8,300 mechanical 4B, Clark 5 speed and 2:42/1 gearing...was 23.2. (I just spent an hour redoing the math...and found out my previous MPG figure was wrong.) More than double what the 351 delivered...and the 351 NEVER pulled the loaded car trailer like the 4B. Not remotely close.
(For those who have never driven one, they rattle like a bike chain when running, vibrate like a Harley and it feels like it accelerates poorly in a vehicle that is bread van sized...till you hit your fist hill. Then you quickly understand what you paid for. A little turbo whistle and the invisible "Gorilla" literally shoves you up the hill like it is taunting for more grade to overcome. No other engine ever pulled so good @ under 4 liters...and sipped fuel so well...not to mention lasting like they do.
Adding a charge cooler to the old 120 rotary-pump motors, along with a slight twist of a certain screw...and they wake right up to nearly current model power levels, with little to no change in MPG, if used properly. Even the very first 4B's at 118HP will out "Gorilla" screaming V8's when hauling weight. Truly astounding engines. My personal favorite of all time. Too bad they did not build a pickup and van with them as an option. Chrysler said they were too vibration prone for the market. I say bull$hit, they would have sold like hotcakes. They out pull and easily outlasted the Asian competition. Isuzu, Mitsubishi and Nissan all took a shot at the US fleets and the numbers did not lie. Cummins, quite simply, RULED. Drivers complained when their units went to Duramaxes and the *Gag* 6.0 Ford abortions.)
(I get the 4B, loud and clear)

However, it would have to be a damned small frontal wind load to see 20 out of a 4B in a step van. (Unless you are one of the nuts who drives 45MPH on the hwy and does the "ultra miler" crap they think helps...like wearing out a starter/ring gear from 50 stop/starts per trip...talk about bad for diesels with turbochargers...SHIVER...)
I think the word, "rumor" fits this info very well.
With a 5 speed OR an Allison behind it, I have 2.3 million (and then some) miles of MPG data from captive fueling islands for many many different applications of step van using this power plant.
However,  true-to-life MPG @ highway speeds (real highway speed, not the old VW Bug "I get 55MPG" BS the aircooled freaks used to lie about) shows me 15-17 at the VERY top.

In the fleets, they generally had to replace the daily driven engines @ 350,000 ish. Almost none threw rods or locked...but once they got to a point where they were using oil, the just remanned them with another 4B or had a wrench freshening them in house.
By the time the chassis hit 600K, they would evaluate the aluminum/plastic and if in good enough shape, buy a brand new chassis and swap the top body...most often...for another 4B/Allison combo.
If you care for it like a sweet little grandchild, a 4B can deliver 500,000 miles. (Amsoil with the air filter and the bypass monster oil filters helps a LOT.) Bank on 300,000 and you will almost never be sorry for spending your money.

PS...Ford E150's, after carrying an (if memory serves) 800+ pound engine/batteries and hauling serious weight regularly (up to 14,500 behind it many times...) are wasted after the third time the odometer rolls around to zeros again. The frame and rear end on that van were so loose and worn, it was not worth fooling with. The engine went into a small bus, got put on use for a Church and ran 22 years before being scrapped. It made 400,000 and then some. The shuttle bus got hit and it was taken by the insurance company...but it still ran perfectly and used very little oil (likely leaked it, not "burned" it.)

 

[KarlH]

(For those who have never driven one, they rattle like a bike chain when running, vibrate like a Harley and it feels like it accelerates poorly in a vehicle that is bread van sized...till you hit your fist hill. Then you quickly understand what you paid for. [...])

Thanks for posting your experiences. Now I'm kicking myself even harder for missing the chance to buy a rust-free P30 with 87k for $3850 (The only silver lining is that the heat didn't work, and I would've been driving back here at -30 F.)

As far as what you can do with a van/truck and where you can go, it seems like hill climbing ability would be a lot more important than acceleration on city streets.