Choosing a step van

[flying kurbmaster]

Iron Planet is auctioning a pile of them right now, but they're AS-IS/WHERE-IS and scattered all over the US so that it's hard to look at them. There's also this clause: "a buyer may not dispute the condition of the item. IronPlanet claims no responsibility for the condition or description of this item. This item does not include any protection offered by IronClad Assurance. A buyer may NOT submit a dispute claim on this item."

 
Did you take any photos during your build? The interior pics you posted looked very classy.

On the drive back from the dealership I was looking at skirts and trailer tails on semis and thinking about ways of reducing drag on a step van. Would it make sense to buy a shorter (and cheaper) van and attach a slightly tapered box to the back (similar to a trailer tail in shape)?

There are a couple candidate vehicles for sale now that have garage doors in back, so it would have the secondary benefit of removing a noise source. I was thinking that I could un-bolt the rear step and hand-holds (if there are any) and use those hard-points to provide some of the structural support.

I have put some thought into reducing drag, I have installed panels in my grill to stop some air from coming into engine bay, I installed an air dam under the front bumper, I installed small sections along the sides and large flat sheets of alluminium panels under the van that attach to my under floor cabinets, a deflector on the back sides and roof, fender skirts on the rear wheels, I removed the lights on the front roof, replace the large mirrors, I have put some thought into building a full tail on it but have not done so yet. I did a lot of this stuff on a Toyota van I have and made a 10% highway increase in fuel consumption but to be honest have seen very little gain on the Kurbmaster. Some of the problems is the flat sides, and the squareness of the windshield pillars that is why I think the best gain is in the power train, Cummins 4bt or different gearing in differential. Aero gains come into play at 50mph or more, I cruise at 50 and rarely go above. So my best gains come from keeping weight down. My entire build is 1x 3/4 framing including the bed, 3/16 panelling, the only 1/2 ply is one sheet for the top of the bed. I think a tail would be a great project and would make it look cool, ideally made out of Alluminium but could also be made like a boat out of ply and light weight ribbing. Good luck

 

[KarlH]

All aluminum body GM / Workhorse, 8.1L gasser, beefed up rear axle ideally 4500 style wide ratio for both low end torque and 50+ mph driving..

Reward offered if you put me on to the one I buy, lower miles more important than crazy cheap.

What counts as low miles in your book?

 

[KarlH]

I think insulating the floor is important not only for warmth but also for noise, that includes the floor in the cab area, I have insulation below the floor as well as above, my ceiling has the original insulation plus an extra inch, then tung and groove boards, the walls has between one and two inches of foam board depending on where. One of the issues with stepvans is the noise that can get tiresome to drive long distance with. So insulating the doors,firewall and the dog house along with some kind of sound deadener is worth the effort. My front floor is insulated and the dog house along with some spray foam on the firewall, and in the wheel wells.

Do you think that a lot of the noise in your Kurbmaster was coming from the engine?

One seller warned me that his 4BT is quite loud, so I did a little searching and came across this: https://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?17365-Vibration-and-Noise-of-4BT - It sounds like the problem is that it's a heavily-built I4 engine with no balance shaft. Lots of people recommending different mounts or heavier flywheels.

(There's a different van for sale that has a 4-speed GM manual transmission that might have a bigger flywheel.)

 

[7wanders]

Andi and Dorthy have done an amazing job on their step van to almost completely eliminate rattles, vibrations and road noise. Andi developed a tension roller that holds the door against one side so it doesn't rattle side to side in the slot and added extra gaskets around the door pockets. he has also done a lot of extra work around the cab area to reduce vibrations and engine noise. the ride is very much like a traditional vehicle and quieter than most big rig RVs. I'm hoping to do an update tour video on my YouTube channel to show he he tackled each issue

 

[John61CT]

What counts as low miles in your book?

well relative to price certainly

under 50k certainly under 120k, but lowa da betta

 

[KarlH]

What brand of heater did you use in the Kurbmaster?

[img=300x450]https://vanlivingforum.com/attachment.php?aid=7851[/img]

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Do you think that a lot of the noise in your Kurbmaster was coming from the engine?

One seller warned me that his 4BT is quite loud, so I did a little searching and came across this: https://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?17365-Vibration-and-Noise-of-4BT - It sounds like the problem is that it's a heavily-built I4 engine with no balance shaft. Lots of people recommending different mounts or heavier flywheels.

(There's a different van for sale that has a 4-speed GM manual transmission that might have a bigger flywheel.)

The deisel engines will be noisier, that is the trade off for fuel economy. a lot of noise comes from the dog house, some from the rear box, drive train, wheel wells, firewall, doors, large windshield, floor. The difference between a luxury car and a regular car is in part due to quality of soundproofing. In a stepvan you are sitting in an echoing tin can,  a few inches from the engine, a few inches from the front tires separated by a few mm of  very conductive alluminium. The same is true in a luxury car only they have expensive sound proofing stuff glued onto it, as well as pressed metal in order to reduce the vibration( noise) If you want to cut down on noise you have to spend some money, get creative or wear earplugs. I drove mine over a 1000 kms of gravel a few years back, that made it even noisier, as well as dusty. Loved every minute of it, almost. The heater is a Dickenson P1200, that is a very old picture the ceiling is  now has more insulation and tung and grove boards painted white and all that white plastic edging has been replaced by varnished wood mouldings it looks a bit more expensive.

 

[Headache]

That is a Dickinson Marine heater either propane or diesel. Completely guessing but from the looks of the fuel line it's diesel.

 

[wayne49]

Here's a 1998 Freightliner MT45 in North Hills, California. $10,995. 267,000 miles.
Has a Cummins 5.9L which had a good reputation on CRVL a while back when I was asking about diesels. Don't know about now, the crowd has changed. I noticed no one has recommended a Cummins to you.

This is also pre DEF and electronic gizmos, 1998 was the last year. If you search CRVL you might be able to find the thread with that conversation.

https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/1998-FREIGHTLINER-MT45-5005124623

 

[wayne49]

This is the search I used:

https://www.commercialtrucktrader.c...eyword=cummins&year=1989:1998&engineSize=5.9l

 

[KarlH]

That is a Dickinson Marine heater either propane or diesel.  Completely guessing but from the looks of the fuel line it's diesel.

Thanks That's exactly what it is, and they look pretty nice.

 

[KarlH]

This is the search I used:

https://www.commercialtrucktrader.c...eyword=cummins&year=1989:1998&engineSize=5.9l

There are several low-mile Cummins 5.9 CNG-powered step vans listed there for less than $5,000. Does anyone know what's wrong with them? I found this: http://www.cngchat.com/forum/forum/...tural-gas-vehicles/8335-gutless-cummins-5-9-l

 

[John61CT]

Fresno school district selling 80-90's Grummans cheap, check out eBay

 

[7wanders]

I have a diesel cummins 5.9 (6bt) and highly recommend the engine. it is rated for 500k to 1 million miles depending on hard or light use (FedEx style driving is high use whereas electrician driving would be light use). mine has zero digital components and very easy to work on. if you find the 6bt or 4bt with less than 200k miles on it, I'd still have a mechanic inspection but not be scared off by the miles

 

[ByeBye]

All aluminum body GM / Workhorse, 8.1L gasser, beefed up rear axle ideally 4500 style wide ratio for both low end torque and 50+ mph driving..

Reward offered if you put me on to the one I buy, lower miles more important than crazy cheap.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/d/step-van-gas-and-diesel-step-vans-for/6769542196.html

 

[KarlH]

The deisel engines will be noisier, that is the trade off for fuel economy. a lot of noise comes from the dog house, some from the rear box, drive train, wheel wells, firewall, doors, large windshield, floor. The difference between a luxury car and a regular car is in part due to quality of soundproofing. In a stepvan you are sitting in an echoing tin can,  a few inches from the engine, a few inches from the front tires separated by a few mm of  very conductive alluminium. The same is true in a luxury car only they have expensive sound proofing stuff glued onto it, as well as pressed metal in order to reduce the vibration( noise) If you want to cut down on noise you have to spend some money, get creative or wear earplugs. I drove mine over a 1000 kms of gravel a few years back, that made it even noisier, as well as dusty. Loved every minute of it, almost. The heater is a Dickenson P1200, that is a very old picture the ceiling is  now has more insulation and tung and grove boards painted white and all that white plastic edging has been replaced by varnished wood mouldings it looks a bit more expensive.

(I got mixed up and forgot that your Kurbmaster is a gasser :blush: )

There are a few vans with 4BTs for sale, most with aluminum bodies. One of them has a 13x7' bay with double walls and ceiling that have insulation in between, but it has 270,000 miles and a rebuild tag on the engine with few specifics. It's cheap, though, and it supposedly only weighs 4,400 pounds.

There is another with 16x8' bay, a GM manual transmission and only 110,000 miles, but it's a lot farther away in an area where underbody rust is a major problem.

And then there are the vans with 5.9L Cummins compressed-natural-gas engines, including this one: https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/1998-FREIGHTLINER-MT45-114927500

I'm not sure why an MT45 with less than 23,000 miles would be selling for that price.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

(I got mixed up and forgot that your Kurbmaster is a gasser :blush: )

There are a few vans with 4BTs for sale, most with aluminum bodies. One of them has a 13x7' bay with double walls and ceiling that have insulation in between, but it has 270,000 miles and a rebuild tag on the engine with few specifics. It's cheap, though, and it supposedly only weighs 4,400 pounds.

There is another with 16x8' bay, a GM manual transmission and only 110,000 miles, but it's a lot farther away in an area where underbody rust is a major problem.

And then there are the vans with 5.9L Cummins compressed-natural-gas engines, including this one: https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/1998-FREIGHTLINER-MT45-114927500

I'm not sure why an MT45 with less than 23,000 miles would be selling for that price.

I don’t know either nor do I know much about cng or propane but heard that they prolong the life of the engine and are cheap to run and good for the environment, I would be happy to try one out. I guess it all depends what you are intending to do with it. If you are planning on doing a ton of miles every month then fuel economy is important if you are planning on sitting for long periods of time and moving when you have to then maybe not so much. I like the size of mine and would not particularly trade off more space for the larger ones. Mine is a 10 foot by 78 inch by 6 feet high behind the driver, which works fine for my needs but may be too small for some people. It is not any longer then a pickup and fits easily in parking spots. I am not sure I would worry too much about mileage if it was in a fleet usually it is in their interest to keep them well maintained, I read somewhere the idea behind these vehicles was for long life span (20\30years)so heeps of miles would be what one would expect on most of the older ones. I didn’t pay a lot of money for mine, it had been sitting for several years unused., but I had to do quite a bit of work to it. New rad, hoses,brakes, lines and all, new exhaust system and probably other stuff that I can’ t remember and being a 1986 I will no doubt continue to maintain it. I bought this one because it came to me, if I were looking I think I would have preferred a 4bt but they are hard to find in the size I have, heck they are hard to find period. At the end of the day it will boil down to what is available at your budget at the time. If you pay a few thousand more then somebody else you won’t think about that in a years time and maybe the repairs will even it out.

 

[KarlH]

Andi and Dorthy have done an amazing job on their step van to almost completely eliminate rattles, vibrations and road noise. Andi developed a tension roller that holds the door against one side so it doesn't rattle side to side in the slot and added extra gaskets around the door pockets. he has also done a lot of extra work around the cab area to reduce vibrations and engine noise. the ride is very much like a traditional vehicle and quieter than most big rig RVs. I'm hoping to do an update tour video on my YouTube channel to show he he tackled each issue

I was just watching some of your videos. Very cool

Some of the flat body panels could be converted into foam sandwich to stiffen them, but that's not easy to modify later. On the plus side it wouldn't add much weight.

 

[KarlH]

On the plus side it wouldn't add much weight.

(I meant relative to insulation and wall paneling.)

 

[John61CT]

I'm not sure why an MT45 with less than 23,000 miles would be selling for that price.

Heck of a deal!

Because "runs" now is no guarantee for later, and only a diesel mechanic is going to figure out how to convert back to normal fuel.

Can you imagine trying to get CNG problems fixed out in the middle of nowhere?

If truly dual fuel, then OK, you can just use diesel to get back to civilization but. . .