charger/converter vs smart portable charger

[rastaman]

Ok guys here is the question....what are the disadvantages, if any, in using a  portable type 'smart charger'  as opposed to a permanently installed RV type charger/controller?

I currently have an older TC with the original charger/converter, which I am sure is probably not a 3 stage charger, and I am also rebuilding an even older TC that has no charger controller. Plus there are times that I would like to charge my batteries (using a generator) at an off grid location.

Not only are these portable 'Smart Chargers' the ones that offer 3 stage charging..  cheaper. than a permanent mount 'RV charger controller" but I would be able to use it between all three applications.  

I am only using  2  6 volt batteries . 

thanks

 

[SternWake]

An RV converter can both charge batteries, and power loads at the same time
A 'Smart' charger will likely get confused and shut itself off when it detects a load shutting off like a light or compressor fridge or unplugging the laptop.

Generally this will only occur at higher states of charge, this shut down, but I do not own each and every 'smart' charger out there.

For a pair of golf carts you want a 25 amp charging source minimum
If you are generator recharging, then getting the batteries to 85% as fast as possible should be the goal and a 60 amp charger can be employed to minimize generator run times.

That last 15% takes hours and hours before the battery closes in on 100% state of charge, and running the generator just for achieving 100% is wasteful.

Most Smart chargers top out at 25 amps.

I'd say buy a RV converter which can max out your generator.  One could cut a pair of jumper cables in half and use those as a portable battery charger.

Iota, Powermax and Progressive Dynamics make good converters.  I'd lkean toward PD for the ability to choose stages, holding 14.4 for 4 hours at the press of a button.

Don't believe the marketing claims from any of them.  No charger is an Ideal charging source for each and every battery.

One will frequently have to outsmart their smart charger, by removing surface charge and restarting charger to get the battery above 92%.

Several restarts could be required before specific gravity maxes out.

Do NOT believe the full charge indicator lamp.  It mocks any human who believes it.

 

[highdesertranger]

x2 on what Stern said. I have not seen a dedicated smart charger that handles loads well. maybe they are some but I haven't seen one. highdesertranger

 

[wayne49]

Sternwake,

1) What is a procedure used for "removing surface charge"?

2) Do you have a recommedation for a solar controller that has PD's "Charge Wizard" like capability?


3) I may not have understood the thread, I remember a post about using LED lighting controller for manual equalization. I have tried searching the forum to locate that thread, but have not been successful. Could you post the link to the item )or thread) again?

Thank you for your information sharing,
Wayne

 

[SternWake]

1.  Turn on relatively large loads until battery voltage drops below 12.7/8 and then restart the 'smart' charger.  If the charger instantly goes back to float voltage, do it again but draw it down to 12.6v and restart on the next lowest amperage setting, if it exists.  I used my headlamps and foglights for this(! 30 amps combined), but my system is wired so that I can use them off of either battery.  Another person needing to remove surface charge voltage might need to employ their inverter powering something in the 10 to 15 amp range.  Leave load on while restarting 'smart' charger, then turn off load.  One might have to disconnect 'smart' charger completely and hook it back to battery only once battery voltage has been reduced to below 12.7ish

2.  I am not upto date on all the latest solar controller offerings.  There was a recent thread on them, but a solar controller with adjustable absorption voltage setpoints should be mandatory if the person is trying for a good battery lifespan.

I use a Bluesky SB2512i with the IPN ProRemote, which is also a battery monitor, counting Amp hours in or out and other features as well.  Operating since 10/2007 continuously.

3.  The Adjustable voltage power supply can be used as a manual charger, and these can be had for quite cheap and goto voltages in the low to mid 15's,  BUT, these cheapest models can also smoke themselves when unleashed on a depleted battery.  They are rated for 350 watts, but will smoke and fire themselves outputting 500+ watts into a depleted battery when the voltage is cranked up high.

Also Know one needs to provide both the 120vAC cable, and the DC output cables to the battery.  Voltage adjustment requires a fine touch, with the unit not hooked to the battery( unloaded) and requires a jewelers screwdriver, and a voltmeter.

Please realize this cheapo power supply needs close monitoring.  It is not set it and forget it, unless one just sets it to a float voltage. But even float voltage on a super depleted battery can cause it to exceed 350 watts for a time. 
    If one wants to use it to bulk charge depleted batteries, the voltage must be dialed back to keep wattage output in the 350 or less range, and then increased as the battery fills to hold ~350 watts until absorption voltage is reached.  I had this product and anything over 36 amps would cause a buzzing, and the buzzing is a precursor to smoky stinky failure.

Again know this following product used as a battery charger can be dangerous.

http://www.amazon.com/eTopxizu-Regulated-Switching-Supply-Silver/dp/B007KG0ZYI

One can use this product on the DC output to see measure and count current:

http://www.amazon.com/Andoer-Hight-...UDLuAKL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_

The NExt step up is the Megawatt.  The product linked above is a cheapened clone of this following product:

http://www.amazon.com/MegaWatt-TM-S...d=1444582141&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=megawatt

http://www.12voltpowersupplies.us/

JiminDenver had one of these but it failed.  I think the fan failed and it overheated, but am not sure.  One can easily upgrade the 60mm fan to a dual ball bearing model.

I utilize a MeanWell RSP-500-15  power supply.  I've added a 10 turn potentiometer to easily change voltages, the Wattmeter on the output, and I have increased the ventilation and heat sinking as I use mine as a 40 amp bulk charger, a top charger, and equalizer, and a converter, powering all my loads and holding the battery at 13.6v overnight.

I've never added the spring wound timer I originally intended, which would add some safety to the unit.

I've also upgraded the wires on the wattmeter to 8awg as the 12 awg aluminum wires get too hot passing 40 amps continuously.

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-My-newest-electrical-toy

Again, know that these adjustable voltage power supplies are NOT automatic.  They require an observant human to be there to reduce voltage or turn them off at the proper time.  They can overcharge the battery, and the 23$ version can catch fire if its voltage is turned high and it is unleashed on a depleted battery, but thay can actually do what no other charger can do.  Hold absorption voltage long enough to actually complete the task of fully charging a battery.  Smart chargers and their green lights are liars.  Lawyerly safe and ineffective at maximizing battery life.

Powermax Converters, make an Adjustable voltage model which is also Manual, not automatic.  These are a bit beefier and can go upto 120 Amps but the minimum amperage is 45.  Call Errin at Powermax converters directly for this, do not go through Randy at Bestconverter.com, and expect to pay the 200$ range for this type of Manual converter/powersupply.  Stress that you want an adjustable voltage model, if you talk/email with him

http://www.powermaxconverters.com/contact.html

I have not personally done this, but one can use a DC voltage booster on the output of a charging source to equalize a flooded battery at 16V.  I do not know how a smart charger will react with such a device attached to it.
I do not own this product, I merely bring it up for those who own the Cheapowatt, or the Megawatt, and need voltages higher than 15.3 of the cheapowatt or the ~15.5 of the Megawatt.

http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Converte...4096&sr=1-1&keywords=600+watt+voltage+booster

I was reluctant to allow 16v on my former flooded battery, but 16V did what 15.5v simply could not, and I got 500 Deep cycles from the group31 flooded battery, which is all that can really be expected of such a battery, as it is not a true deep cycle battery, like a golf cart battery is.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

An RV converter can both charge batteries, and power loads at the same time
A 'Smart' charger will likely get confused and shut itself off when it detects a load shutting off like a light or compressor fridge or unplugging the laptop.

I wonder if the same is true about the smart marine chargers?  After all, they are often left on while the boat is tied to the dock, on shore power, and 12 volt loads are still functioning.

Anyone know?

Regards
John

 

[SternWake]

I do not know. My uncles boat had some single stage charger on a bank of 16 T-105's. They were all dry. I used something like 8 gallons of distilled water to refill them, but it was way too late.

What i do know is one pays a serious premium for a marine charger. like 600$ for 25 amps.

Mainesails writeup:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/installing_a_marine_battery_charger&page=1

 

[accrete]

YMMV.
This post relates to my solution to maintaining Optima AGM batteries in a TT.

I installed a Optima 1200 Digital Charger in our Parkliner TT.
The PL came with a PD4500 charger/converter.
It also came with a pair of Optima blue top greys (Starting + Deep Cycle).

After substantial research and discussions with both Optima tech and Progressive Dynamic tech it was determined that the installed PD4500 was not the ideal solution for maintaining the installed Optima batteries.
I installed the charger on a completely separate circuit than the PD. The Optima charger gets shore power from a 15amp supply line, and is then connected via a dual 60amp fused circuit to the two Optimas. When I get home from an adventure I will hook up the Optima charger and let it get the optima bank up to health and maintain it until we head out again.
We ONLY use the PD4500 if we are plugged into 30 amp shore power at state park or similar...which is like... once a year?? And would never plug the PD4500 in if the bank was anything near ~12.5 volts or below, and would not leave it plugged in for any extended period of time to the PD4500.

This is my take after my due diligence, and what I chose to do after counsel with the related techs. I'm not a pro builder so don't take my word for any of this being the right thing to do!

: ) Thom

 

[akrvbob]

The Blue Sky 3000i will allow you to set absorption voltage up to 15 volt and then allows you to set how long it holds it.

A friend just killed his Lifelines and bought a new UsBattery 8d AGM and didn't want to do it again! You can make all the settings right from the front cover and so far he has 100 times better performance out of it than out of his old Morningstar PWM which gave him zero control.
Bob