Canadian Winters

[Guest]

It may only be the beginning of spring, but I am curious, and it's never too soon to think about it. Does anyone who lives in their van, do so over the winter, who is not a snowbird? I am pretty much stuck here in Calgary because I have a FT job that pays well, and the winters can be long and cold.&nbsp;Average temp is prolly around -20C, with some days dipping to -40C.&nbsp;I had to move into a stick built over the winter, and I am stuck in it for the foreseeable future, but I want to get the van ready for the coming winter. <br><br>My van, if you have seen my thread is not a conversion like many of you have. It was built to be a campervan so I have limited room on the walls already. I'll be putting in some insulation behind the walls soon to help, but I am curious about how others in cold climates adapt. I believe the propane tank is only a 20lb tank, but I'm not 100% sure, I'll have to look again.<br><br>Most the blogs and forums that I have seen that reference winter vandwelling either point to moving to the south, or it being a van they converted. Usually a large box truck which has the room to add thicker insulation. I may have only an inch or two behind the walls.<br>

 

[Wild_E]

Hi there,<div>have lived in a vehicle before in winter in Canada. Used a propane heater, with a 20gal tank it worked out good, had two or three of them actually. Also you can use a Kerosene heater, that works good as well.</div><div>In my Alaska Camper, the heater was so hot we had to keep the door open or the bottom windows to allow the heat to escape.&nbsp;</div><div>Also had a camper with birds in it for 3yrs,, DO NOT ASK,, ex wife thingy...</div><div><br></div><div>so, the camper was heated entirely with a single burner propane connected to a 20 gal tank, then we used a 100 pounder and connected the heater to a stand. There were budgies and Cocatiles, who like the temp in the Mid 80;s</div><div>It can be done, easily enough.</div>

 

[Butternut]

hmmm... I knew a guy that lived full time in Maine, that's kind of the same temp sometimes. He used a lot of insulation and a solar heater of some kind. With my luck I would suffocate myself trying to set up a propane tank like WildernessReturn has. Good luck and be safe!<br><br>-The Tuckerbag<br><br>

 

[Guest]

<P>(Hmmm, I posted the other day. Looks like it didn't make it)</P><P>@WildernessReturn: Was that in Ontario? I checked out your blog, you're in Ontario. I know the winters there can be awful at -20C with that humidity. In Calgary, where it's normal to have -40 for a week or so before a Chinook rolls in, might still work. <BR>&nbsp;<BR>The heater certainly might be useful. I have a built in furnace with I believe a 20lb tank under the van but that runs the fridge as well. Having the backup would be good. I'll have to test it out this winter. My son is moving back with me, so I'm pretty much out on the getting back in my van for now. <BR></P>

 

[Wild_E]

Hey,<div>I have lived in Tents (Canvas is best and then Nylon is ok), Dug outs, lean too's ground sheet covered bivi bags, debris shelter, Wigwam, Trenches and vehicles in;</div><div>Ontario south-north, Manitoba, Alberta, Sask, BC, Germany, and Cyprus.</div><div>Yes, ex-military.</div><div>Partly it is the equipment, the person and mostly the outlook and&nbsp;temperament&nbsp;of the people involved. &nbsp;You can survive almost anything, you can&nbsp;excel&nbsp;in almost anything if you apply your heart/soul and head to it. Seriously, if you tell yourself it is too cold to be happy it will be! I have seen people suddenly realize they are having fun, and all of a sudden the winning stops, and&nbsp;voilà, they are not cold anymore! Attitude wins.</div><div><br></div><div>Also good equipment, go to Army Surplus and get the CDN issue, sleeping bag set, including the hood, good to -55f, now update it with an updated new tech inner of&nbsp;polypropylene&nbsp;or capirlerin/capileren ? sp, add an additional -10 to that, now put that ontop of a green army foam and a green army Thermarest and you will be cozy with just a ground sheet over you. Adding the bivi bag over the sleeping bag and covering with a ground sheet is the best way to go as snow melts into the bivi bag and water beeds off.</div><div><br></div><div>With the newer Catalytic Propane Heaters, it is more cost efficient and warmer too boot. Due to space considerations, I will be adding in a Propane system heater, if I was to be static I would build a Rocket Thermal Mass heater.</div>

 

[Guest]

Great advice thanks. Would you recommend the foam over my bed? I'm not sure if you've seen what I have, but here's a linky to my van thread <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br><br><A href="https://vanlivingforum.com/post?id=5220310" target=_blank>https://vanlivingforum.com/post?id=5220310</A><br><br>I have all the amenities, I still need to add reflectix insulation in, and figure out how to insulate the floor without loosing head room. (Foam under the van?)<br>

 

[Wild_E]

<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">

Would you recommend the foam over my bed? I'm not sure if you've seen what I have, but here's a linky to my van thread <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"></span></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br> </span><span class="apple-style-span"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt; color:red">What do you mean Foam over your bed??</span></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br> <span class="apple-style-span"><a href="https://vanlivingforum.com/post?id=5220310" target="_blank">https://vanlivingforum.com/post?id=5220310</a></span><br> </span><span class="apple-style-span"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt; color:red">yes, saw the link before</span></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br> <span class="apple-style-span">I have all the amenities, I still need to add reflectix insulation in, and figure out how to insulate the floor without loosing head room. (Foam under the van?)</span><br> <span class="apple-style-span">

</span></span><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black;mso-ansi-language: EN-US"></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">There are places that can insulate under the van, it is costly, I would go to a carpet store look for&nbsp;remnants&nbsp;from them for basement&nbsp;under-padding, the best stuff they have. Moisture and cold proofed. Then add a dense layer of carpeting, find the thickest weave that they have, use a throw rug, as they are denser than most carpets. Not all carpets are made equal. If you look for old slightly banged up wool throw rugs, everyone is getting rid of those, they are what you need.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">If you mean do I think you should replace your foam mattress then the answer is no. In the winter, you can insulate the bed, lay ontop of a Therma Rest self inflating pad, also add a layer or two of the blue/green dense foam mats for camping under your sleeping foam, then the Therma Rest ontop of the Foam Mattess. Do not put the&nbsp;aluminium or rescue/survival blankets under or over the bedding as you will sweat and then - YOU will Freeze!&nbsp;</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">In the winter when it is really cold, you could heat up some water, put it in a rubber snuggly, the type our mothers put with us when we were sick, sorry just can not think of what it is called .. duh.. &nbsp;Edit - Hot Water Bottle LOL... put that in there about 20 min before you go to bed, keep using the same water, your feet will be toasty when you get into bed. You could also sleep with the oversized work socks. The poly blends or wool work the best, keep your feet warm and do not cut off circulation like the normal white/black socks everyone wears.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">I have used a catalytic heater with a propane tank in the winter and had to leave the door open on my Alaska Camper, it was just too hot, even the dogs thought it was hot and you know dogs, they love the heat.&nbsp;</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-->&nbsp;</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">If we can find the Olympian Catalytic Heaters in Canada, that is the heater to go for. I will be checking out some RV dealers in the area, to see what they have.</span><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4">&nbsp;</font></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#ff0000">Just a note</font> to some new peeps to camping and such; going to bed with too many or bulky cloths is self defeating. A thin set of flannel or nothing will actually be better to sleep in than&nbsp;donning&nbsp;sweaters and fleeces etc. inside the sleeping bag. You may need to keep them on, until the bag warms up, hence use a hot stone, heating pad, or Hot Water Bottle to pre-warm the bag. If you keep them on, you sweat, sweat is a killer, it sucks the heat out of you.&nbsp;</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"></p>

 

[Guest]

Sorry, foam rather than the bed that's already there.<br><br>Great advice, thanks <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br>

 

[Buster]

Hi Arathi,<br>I have read some of your blog, checked out the pictures of your van (I like it) and the price was right too. I have spent a few winters in a small cabin with decent insulation and a very very small wood stove. Wildernessreturn has some very good points to take into consideration. First off, you need a very good sleeping bag like he said. Do not sweat, that is the KEY, even throughout the day. Try very hard not to sweat! Overdressing or over bundleing yourself for bed is bad, you will sweat. Jogging pants and a long sleeve shirt at the most. The furnace in your van is very inefficient and uses quite alot of propane in the winter months. You defineatly need to see if your van has any insulation behind the walls at all. It should have either spray foam or fiberglass insulation from the factory(Canadian Model?). See if you can remove a few panels easily without damaging to check. If you do have insulation, I suggest you use some canned spray foam in key areas that appear to be light on insulation, replace the panels and forget going through the hassle of adding more or replacing what's there(expensive). It's just not worth the hassle. Also I see your floor and carpeting are thin. Like wilderness said you want a thick underlayment for basements and to save money I suggest asking the carpet store for SHAG carpet, the thicker the better. It has excellent insulating qualities and can be had for cheap because it's outta style. Just lay the underlay and carpet over the existing like a throw rug. That way you can remove it easily to clean or do work.You could also use the shag carpet (OR) foam insulation or reflectix&nbsp;on your closet and cabinet walls adjacent to the exterior, under sink,bed, above cabinets ect;. Those areas will have the greatest heat loss. Adding reflectix to all the windows and the back doors especially, is also a great idea. Fill the back and side doors with any insulation(not drivers or passenger doors).You need to go through the van and use your better judgment to see where the van will lose heat, and be innovative or copy what others do to keep heat loss at a minimum. Foam weather stripping can be used on the back outer edges of all the cabinet doors to keep alot of the heat from going in there. It is available for very cheap and differnt thicknesses. You'll need the thin stuff, so the cabinet doors will still close properly. I notice your raised roof already has a type of shag carpet from the factory, this should be fine.<br>"DO NOT USE A KEROSENE HEATER" "YOU "WILL" DIE OF ASPHYXIATION" they are designed for out door use "ONLY" and as a result are completely useless and defeat their purpose(heat the outside?). Not to mention they smell and are very dirty and turn everything black and smelly of kerosene. They are very flammable as well. I am speaking from experience.&nbsp;"STAY AWAY". do not even accept one for free... I do recommend the catalytic style heaters like the Olympia ones, with a low oxygen shut off. This can be&nbsp;plumbed in easily to your existing propane system and be run at the same time as your furnace. The second heater helps suppliment your furnace, and keeps&nbsp;furnace from working so hard&nbsp;and very possibly burning it out. The second heater is very efficient and you'll notice a significant drop in propane consumption(even with both heaters going). I would also buy a small coleman personal catalytic heater that uses the disposable propane tanks(another back up). If it tips over or gets low on oxygen, it shuts off. I also recommend you get&nbsp;TWO battery operated smoke/carbon monixde detectors and change the batteries regularly. A low oxygen detector is also a great investment.<br>Finally, I noticed your curtains for the side entry and in front of the cab. I recommend getting some heavy blankets that hang all the way to the floor, do the back doors as well.<br>I also forgot to mention, (for your further safety) to leave one or more windows cracked to allow fresh air flow, because the furnace and heaters suck out the air very quickly and "YOU WILL DIE". I have known a few PPL over the years who have died from asphyxiation, from living in trucks vans and cars. It is VERY serious. Once these precautions and modifications are made you'll be able to sleep (efficiently)warm and cosy, like a baby. <br>I'm sorry about the long post, but you seemed to REALLY want to know about the Canadian Winter Vandwelling Situation.<br>I hope this will help you keep warm safe and efficient.<br><br>

 

[blacksmith]

I do not know your particular situation, but in the oil patch, trailers are surrounded by square hay bails about two bails high.<BR><BR>Those who do sleep in their trucks, use heavy duty sleeping bags and run the truck occasionally.<BR>

 

[coal]

Another option is a diesel fired heater, search espar diesel heater.&nbsp; they run off 12 volts and draw very little power and consume around .1 of a litre of diesel fuel.&nbsp; they are a vented&nbsp; unit and produce excellant heat, used mainly in highway trucks in the sleeper bunk.&nbsp; most come with a thermstat too.&nbsp; A setup will cost you 1000 to 1500 but if your talking Canadian winters, well worth the investment.&nbsp; <br>

 

[4x4tour]

I have this for pre-warming my bed:<br><br>http://cozywinters.com/shop/12v-heated-blanket.html<br><br>The timer goes off without draining your battery.&nbsp; And, if you get chilly in the middle of the night, click it on again. <br><br>

 

[VanFan]

Have you had a chance to actually use this yet?&nbsp; This might be very nice to have!<br>Vickie<br><br>