Built in propane furnace or electric space heaters.

[NickTheoBennett]

Greetings,<br /><br />My wife and I are transitioning from a POS 24' RV into a much nicer 30'ish TT.&nbsp; We are using two small electric ceramic space heaters(30 bucks from wal-mart type things) with an electric thermostat to control temperature to heat.&nbsp; We originally bought these because our RV is non-drivable and we were unable to use the propane.&nbsp; The TT we are moving into has a working propane furnace, and we were wondering which would likely be cheaper to use?&nbsp; Propane or electric?<br /><br />Propane certainly has an advantage in convenience, being built into the home rather than having space heaters with long extension cords in the way, but it won't be worth it if propane is significantly more expensive.&nbsp; If I recall correctly, propane is about 1.99/gal near me.<br /><br />If anyone is interested, this is the electric thermostat we bought.&nbsp; it is amazingly accurate and consistent, and is programmable to night/day/evening and weekdays and weekends.&nbsp; <br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E7NYY8/ref=oh_details_o04_s01_i00

 

[wandering mike]

Are you paying separately for the electric to drive the heaters? &nbsp;If so, propane is probably cheaper. &nbsp;But it is a wee bit more complex of an issue based on the rest of your use. &nbsp;Two heaters running off one extension cord also might be more than the cord or the circuit is designed for. &nbsp;I know I have tripped a 15 amp circuit breaker using two heating appliances on the same RV circuit. &nbsp;<br /><br />The propane furnace will suck up your electrical with the fan. &nbsp;But if you are plugged in rather than on batteries, it is probably not a big deal.<br /><br />If you are boondocking, you might consider a Mr. Heater Buddy or an Olympian Wave product without the fans to suck power. &nbsp;I use a Mr. Buddy with a bulk connection hose to my RV propane tank. &nbsp;I do have two electrical space heaters I can use if I am at an RV park with electricity included in the rate. &nbsp;They both have their own little thermostats built in that I rely on, but don't typically leave them on over night anyway.

 

[SirJoey]

<br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>Been wondering about this one myself. A few years ago, I was living in a 24' TT, same size as my current home, &amp; I was able to get through most of the winter on a single, 1500-watt electric heater. When the outside temp would drop to around 20 degrees, I'd have to kick in the propane furnace, but for the most part, that one little electric space heater could manage it.</strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>Unfortunately, I don't know the cost of the power I used, cuz I was plugged into my Dad's power, although I DID pay half of his power bill, which kept HIM happy!</strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>So far this year, I'm once again using a single little 1500-watt electric heater, so in a couple months I should have a pretty good idea of what it's gonna cost to run it.</strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>I know one thing, around here, propane &amp; electricity are BOTH sky-high, so there's no inexpensive solution, that's for sure.&nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/rolleyes.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" /><br /><br /></strong></span>

 

[Coffee Tim]

Hey SirJoey you got that sky high price right.&nbsp; I get #20 bottles filled for $15.00 each here in Arkansas; where are you at?&nbsp;

 

[SirJoey]

Hey SirJoey you got that sky high price right.&nbsp; I get #20 bottles filled for $15.00 each here in Arkansas; where are you at?&nbsp;

<br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>Well Tim, you're gettin' off cheaper than I am. Here in SC, the&nbsp;last time I had one of those small ones filled, it was about 18 bux!</strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>I think I'm gonna try heating exclusively (if possible) with the electric heater for the first&nbsp;couple months, get an idea of the cost, then try the same thing with the propane for comparison.&nbsp;</strong><span><strong>Prolly gonna be 6 of one or half a dozen of the other, though.&nbsp;Fossil fuel suppliers know they've got ya, no matter wot U do.&nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/rolleyes.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" /><br /><br /></strong></span><strong>If by some chance propane ends up being cheaper, I may look into having one of those huge tanks&nbsp;delivered, like U sometimes see outside people's homes. Prolly costs hundreds to get one filled, &amp; no doubt there's gonna be a contract to sign, but there's a convenience factor to consider, especially when a trip to town is a 50-mile-round-trip! Plus, it would last all winter. Anybody else doing it this way? And is it any cheaper buying it in bulk, as compared to these small bottles?</strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong><br /></strong></span>

 

[vagari]

I live full time in a 22ft travel trailer. Mine is very well insulated and a true four season trailer. I have a DeLonghi oil filler radiator heater. It has 3 settings - low, medium and high. It uses 400, 800 or 1200 watts. Its very safe. It also has a timer. I use it as much as possible instead of propane. Mainly do to hassle of getting propane tanks refilled (disconnect, get filled, reconnect). I have two 30# tanks and they don't last long.<br /><br />When it gets really cold I do fire up the propane furnace a little to make sure the pipes in my enclosed underbelly don't freeze. This year I am experimenting with some high speed computer fans to blow heated air from electric radiator into floor registers. I want to see if that works so I don't have to run propane as much.<br /><br />If electric is included with your rent then you really want electric heat.<br /><br />

 

[wandering mike]

I went through the analysis a few years ago of which is cheaper, propane or electric. &nbsp;Obviously if where you are has electric included in the rate, use that.<br /><br />Propane has about 91,500 Btu's per gallon. &nbsp;That is the equivalent of about 26.85 Kilowatts of electricity. &nbsp;Divide the price of a gallon of propane by 26.85 and adjust that for the efficiency of your propane appliance and you have the cost of propane in kilowatts to compare with the cost you pay per kilowatt of electricity. &nbsp;It is generally assumed that electric appliances are pretty much 100% efficient as nothing is lost "up the&nbsp;chimney" and you are exactly measuring consumption at the meter. &nbsp;This isn't truly the case if you are using electric for something like cooking and thereby "wasting" some heat.<br /><br />So, if propane is $3.00 per gallon, that translates to 11.2 cents per kilowatt. (3/26.85=11.2) &nbsp;If you assume 85% efficiency for a Mr. Heater Buddy, you would use an additional 15% more propane, so that would adjust to 12.9 cents per kilowatt. (11.2*1.15=12.88) &nbsp;If you are using an old RV furnace that pushes a lot of the heat from the propane to the outside and estimate a 65% efficiency, the cost of propane goes up by 35 percent to 15.1 cents per kilowatt. &nbsp;<br /><br />Just compare that with your electric rate.

 

[SirJoey]

<br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>Hey Mike, I occasionally hear people referring to these propane tanks in "gallons",&nbsp;</strong></span><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>which I don't exactly understand. I've always heard them referred to as 20 lb, 30 lb, etc.&nbsp;</strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>So how many "gallons", for example, is a little 20 lb tank, like they use on barbecue grills?<br /><br /></strong></span>

 

[blars]

Propane is just over 4 pounds per gallon.&nbsp; (4.15 iirc)&nbsp; Bulk propane is usually sold by the gallon, small containers are rated in pounds.&nbsp; You can only fill a container 80% full just to make things more confusing.

 

[wandering mike]

I have used 4.25 lbs per gallon for my calculations, but it all can vary a little based on the actual composition of the gas. &nbsp;I have a 30 lb tank in my class C and I think one time the guy filling it got 7 gallons in. &nbsp;Usually it is about 6 gallons. &nbsp;He probably overfilled it or his&nbsp;gauge&nbsp;was wrong. &nbsp;If you take your tank to have it filled, usually they will have a little dial kind of meter to measure the gallons. &nbsp;<br /><br />I try not to go to places that charge for each filling as though the tank was completely empty and using a balance scale. &nbsp;I also avoid going to an "exchange the tank" type place. &nbsp;The exchanges especially now have "weasel words" about being 15 lbs or something. Who knows how much you are really getting and how much was really left in your tank. &nbsp;Sort of like the new "lb" of coffee is really 12 ounces or something. &nbsp;If you go to a place with a meter, you can then measure your use somewhat like MPG on the second fillup.

 

[wandering mike]

Joey, I guess on rereading your post, I didn't answer the question. &nbsp;If you take a 20 lb tank to 80% of capacity that is 16 lbs of propane if "full" and about 3.75 gallons. &nbsp;If you buy it at an exchange place, who knows how much is in it, but it won't be more than that. &nbsp;<br /><br />A 1 lb green "bottle" of propane like you buy in a camping store or walmart really does contain a net 1 lb of propane and that is a bit under a quarter of a gallon. &nbsp;(and they do look like they are about a quart or 32 ounces, don't they?) But those end up being about $10/gallon if you can get them 2 for $5. &nbsp;That is compared to about $3 or so a gallon with a bulk tank. &nbsp;

 

[SirJoey]

<br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>Thanx, Mike! That helps a lot!&nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" /></strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>Based on your calculations, even though my power rate is nearly 14 cents per kwh, it looks like the electric heater is gonna be cheaper to run, for me anyway. Even at this scandalous rate, I could run the heater 24/7 for about $150 a month.</strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>I haven't had one filled yet this year, but last year it cost me nearly 18 bux to fill one of those small, 20# propane tanks, so I think the only time I'll be running the propane furnace is when it gets cold enough for freezing pipes to become a possibility.&nbsp;<br /><br /></strong></span>

 

[wandering mike]

Yep, it looks like the Flying J prices for Propane in SC are $2.99 a gallon. &nbsp;With a 65% efficiency factor for an RV furnace, you are looking at about 15 cents per Kw. &nbsp;If you were using a Mr. Heater Buddy though, you might get it down to 12 cents assuming a 90% efficiency. &nbsp;But based on that, I think I would use electric too for the&nbsp;convenience. &nbsp;Don't know where you are in SC, but sounds like you should make it through the winter.<br /><br />

 

[SirJoey]

<br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>Unfortunately, the nearest Flying J is AT LEAST a 100-mile-round-trip from where I live!&nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" /></strong></span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><strong>For me, the cheapest place to get 'em refilled is Ace hardware, which is still a 50-mile-round-trip. Figuring those small tanks really only hold about 4 gallons, if the price is the same as last year, then the price is somewhere around a whopping $4.50 per gallon here!<br /><br />Even though I don't have to make a special trip to town for refills cuz I have several tanks, &amp; I typically fill them when I have to go to town anyway, still, there's also the hassle factor.<br /><br />Seems to me one of those radiator-type, oil-filled electrics would be well suited to my needs, but even a comparatively cheap one is still $40 at Wally's, &amp; I can't even spare THAT right now.&nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/frown.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" /><br /><br /></strong></span>

 

[elaineremains]

i'm in canada, british columbia, so it's mostly rain all winter, but still cold, it's like seattle i guess..<br><br>i have one of the big propane tanks, it costs me $175 per year to rent the tank, and usually my propane bill is about $220 a month, which is killing me<br><br>last month i switched to two small electric heaters, but the RV park switched to 'smart meters' and my electricity bill for the two months was over three hundred dollars... where as before it was less than one hundred for two months<br><br>if you have the same 'smart meter' problem, then propane is cheaper, but for me propane is super expensive<br><br>i'm about to start another thread on how to live cheaper in my RV

 

[Willy]

I also live in B.C., in a 9 1/2' slide-in camper, and my winter heating (includes cooking) bill comes to around $60 a month(at the worst). The thing to do is insulate insulate insulate! I've got translucent Coroplast on the windows and have installed a Reflectix/Coroplast sub-ceiling. Since it's so damp here, I've got one roof vent permanently 'open' (no vent cover since it's under a solar panel and has 'furnace filter' material covering the top). It's toasty warm inside and, to be honest, sometimes TOO warm. ..Willy.

 

[elaineremains]

oh thanks willy! i will look into coroplast... but my RV is 40 feet long... i do have a polar package, but i guess it's not enuff? the windows especially feel drafty, even tho they are thermal double paned....<br><br>thanks so much... elaine

 

[Willy]

WOW!! That's a HUGE RV. Ever think of something smaller? It generally makes life on the road MUCH easier (and cheaper) if you have a smaller rig. Something between 20'-30' works well and opens up more possibilities when it comes to places to stay, with shorter being generally better. Coroplast on the windows, during the winter, will cut down on heat loss in a big way. It's like that plastic shrink wrap people apply to windows, but MUCH better for R-value. You also must remember, if they're metal, to insulate the window FRAMES. They're generally a direct conduit of heat from the inside to the outside, as seen by the condensation oft to be found on them. ..Willy.

 

[RV-Kitty]

Is it possible to close off part of the 5th wheel and not heat the entire thing? Close off the bedroom and sleep in the living room?

In another recent post you said you bought your own land and are paying $2000 a year in taxes.

Are you in a RV park or on your own land?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "smart meter?"

There's a limit to how cheap anyone can live anywhere. If you're in an RV park, what is your rent?