building a vented battery box

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LookinUp

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I am choosing to build a vented battery box for my 2 flooded batteries. If the box is vented to the outside of the van, do I need to build the box any larger than what I'd need to remove them at some point, ie to replace. In other words do I need air space figured into the measurements?
Thanks in advance,
Newbie van builder :)
 
You should allow 1/2 inch around and between the batteries. I have a 3" computer fan to move air through the box. I would build higher if you ever upgrade batteries.
 
Remember that you will need room to check the electrolyte and add water.  And, ideally, room to get a battery hydrometer in there regularly to check each cell.  A removable top is ideal for all these things.  If not that, you will either need enough room above them for the hydrometer or the batteries will need to be on some kind of slide so you can pull them out, which, given their weight, will be a non-trivial design problem.
 
If you put 10 Amps at 14 Volts into the battery that's 140 Watts. Some will go into chemical changes, some will be heat. Heat is bad for batteries.
 
Batteries need to be well anchored or all kinds of bad things could happen.
 
When I had the van it was always on my mind if in case of an accident, my "modular" living arrangement would meet me in the front seat, take care to anchor things, be safe. The truck not so much, being slammed with a bunch of Benchmark map books I can handle.
 
Was reading about how boxes that rely only on convection can still have dangerous hydrogen build up... the solution was dual tubes at the top...
 
wagoneer said:
. . . being slammed with a bunch of Benchmark map books I can handle.

A family friend was rear ended and is now on permanent disability.  Got hit in the head with a flying kleenex box.

 -- Spiff
 
Hadn't thought that far ahead... going to order some of those studs. What is the 16 and 18 numbers referring to? Also, what foam to use inside to shim batteries?
 
I know I'm gonna be odd man out;
But F*ck sake!!!!!
Does a *properly* charged and maintained flooded battery spew out 30-500 CFM of hydrogen? (Even a poorly one?)
Do you smoke? Got a lighter? Release just gas for 15 seconds. Now light the lighter. You just blew up the ENTIRE building!
Oh wait........ The *tight* ratio of fuel vs O2 didn't make the cut? Really? REALLY? Blaspheme! SCIENCE says you HAD to DIE! in a flaming ball of butane!

If you get in and out of the area twice day ZERO problem.

Your propane tanks (and even the vehicle's gas/fuel tank) is exponentially more a threat, and triple that up with the other idiots on the road.
 
The danger is the hydrogen gas in the cells. In the sealed tight battery box, maybe. I have 6 golf cart batteries that I charge with 40 amp marine charger as well as alternator. I have a box with the wires going through and a loose lid. I have a 3" computer fan from Radio shack that pulls air out from one end. Into the van. I do not smell anything at anytime. The inside the box is dry and clean. The batteries are also clean and dry.
 
Battery gases are extremely corrosive and moist. Keep that in mind as you chose materials to build your box.

Dave
 
ccbreder said:
The danger is the hydrogen gas in the cells. In the sealed tight battery box, maybe. I have 6 golf cart batteries that I charge with 40 amp marine charger as well as alternator. I have a box with the wires going through and a loose lid. I have a 3" computer fan from Radio shack that pulls air out from one end. Into the van. I do not smell anything at anytime. The inside the box is dry and clean. The batteries are also clean and dry.

And how much Hydrogen in the semi-sealed battery?  Water levels in a 6 cell battery would allow about golf ball sized amount for all 6 cells per 12v battery.  Very little 'head room' in those batteries for *that exact reason*  So now  the *excess* is dispersed into the atmosphere.  Albeit an engine compartment, a battery bank house or a cab.  Whats the saturation over x hours?  What is x hours?  A shift at work?  An errand at the store?  A typical 14:1 *with* ignition *at* that level is needed.  18:1 no go.  10:1 no go.  You are talking a *perfect* storm.  I'm WAY beyond fine with those numbers. Easier to hit the lottery.

yes! it IS a problem.  But no more then getting hit by an asteroid.
Show me a YouTube video of a car/van/RV exploding solely from a hydrogen gas battery leak!  Its would be 1/10 the videos of a martial arts guy defeating a street mugger (for real; CCTV capture)
 
NomadBob said:
And how much Hydrogen in the semi-sealed battery?  Water levels in a 6 cell battery would allow about golf ball sized amount for all 6 cells per 12v battery.  Very little 'head room' in those batteries for *that exact reason*  So now  the *excess* is dispersed into the atmosphere.  Albeit an engine compartment, a battery bank house or a cab.  Whats the saturation over x hours?  What is x hours? 


Seems silly to even guess at something that is so easy to follow manufacturers' recommendations and provide ventilation for a battery box. Copy/Paste:

 Explosion risk

Hydrogen has no colour or smell. Without instrumentation, a human cannot detect it. Unsealed batteries smell whilst charging, but that odour is not hydrogen.
Excess charging voltage causes the electrolyte to ‘boil’. A charge rate of 20 amps at 15 volts produces about a litre of hydrogen per minute. In a typical battery enclosure with about 10 litres of free air space, a 10% (explosive) concentration builds up within 60 seconds. When mixed with air, ignited hydrogen starts to fizzle at a concentration of about 4%  It can explode when concentration exceeds 10%. 

Sealed batteries cope with low levels of overcharge, but to prevent a bomb-like explosion these vents open when pressures reach dangerous levels. As long as the batteries are ventilated (and there is no nearby source of ignition) this gas is likely to dissipate harmlessly to atmosphere.

 Lead acid battery explosion is rare but can blow an RV apart. One well known fifth wheel manufacturer, that had not provided adequate ventilation, blew the bottom out of one of his products through just that.

As assuring basic ventilation is so easy it seems ridiculous not to provide it – let alone (as do some) argue against doing so.  
 
battery-exploded-510x336.jpg

[img=346x0]http://caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/battery-exploded-1024x674.jpg[/img]
An exploded battery is not a pretty site. 


Hydrogen only explodes when ignited but an almost invisible tiny spark can do that. Common sources include insecure terminal clamps and cables, and battery connectors that work-harden and crack. Sparks can also be caused by any electrical or moving device, e.g. from worn bearings. Battery chargers, isolating relays etc, should never be installed in battery enclosures. Such battery ventilation is vital.

Battery ventilation is vital – venting details

The battery enclosure must enable fresh air to enter at its base. The lighter hydrogen must be able to escape to atmosphere via unrestricted outlets at the enclosure’s very top. The RV industry has no standards regarding this but general practice is to provide a few 25 or so mm holes at the top and also close to the bottom of the enclosure.
In 2003, the (then) Sustainable Energy Industry Association suggested the following minimum. The size given is for each vent (top and bottom).
Area in sq cm = 0.006 X ‘n’ X I.
Where ‘n’ – the total number of cells in the battery/s (for this purpose each cell is nominally 2.0 volts)
‘I’ = maximum charging rate in amps.

For example a caravan with two 12 volt batteries (each of 6 cells) and maximum charging rate from the alternator and solar input combined might be 50 amps. Then A = 0.006 x 12 x 50 = 3.6 sq cm. As the above is a minimum requirement such ventilation could thus be one or slots top and bottom – each 5.0 cm long by 1.0 one centimetre deep.

Whilst naturally vented enclosures have been criticised, decades of experience indicate they are adequate for caravans and motor homes. Wind however can generate areas of high pressure around the exit vents and prevent the gas escaping. This is less of an issue if adequate lower vents are provided but many an enclosure is vented only at the top. If yours is like that, cut a few holes at the very bottom.
 
When electricity pass through water, water breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen. These gasses are in the correct % to ignite. I have seen many batteries that exploded while charging. It only takes one very small spark in the right place. The individual cell makes the perfect confinement for the gas to explode. To suggest otherwise is wrong.
 
BradKW said:
Hadn't thought that far ahead... going to order some of those studs. What is the 16 and 18 numbers referring to? Also, what foam to use inside to shim batteries?

5/16-18 is a bolt with 5/16 inch diameter and 18 threads per inch

There are a lot of these pass through studs which might be a better design for the application:

http://crimpsupply.com/battery-terminals-copper-lugs?cat=223

Not really sure what type of rubber would be best to use underneath or between batteries.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rubber-sheets/=14v7n68


I am rather surprised at my ability to smell a battery that has achieved gassing voltages.  My old flooded group31 battery is on the floor of a dilapidated shed I use as a workshop, that has excellent ventilation as a requirement.  When I flip on the power the schumacher charger will start automatically after a few minutes and it likes to go to 16+ volts on the regular setting.

It is the smell that usually reminds me to switch the charger to the AGM setting to prevent the 14.8+ volts from occurring.  When i flip on the power there is also a 20 inch box fan with a shroud exhausting the air, yet I can still smell the battery once the schumacher decides to punish the already full battery with 15+ volts.

And I've never needed a seat belt either.  Perhaps I should stop wearing it since there is obviously no danger. 

http://www.ranknfile-ue.org/h&s1298.html
 
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