Boondockers United

[SoulRaven]

I belong to Escapees, and have for years. But I do understand what they have always represented and support their efforts for the community, and if that is where the RV parks and designer clothing was going....... Having been in the camping/RVing lifestyle for over 3 decades, I wasn't aware of any real problem with the community as a whole, but there are some individuals that present problems and ALWAYS will be present in any lifestyle.

I see the main problem with the discussion is being critical of those that would choose not to be a part of it, like it being an obligation of sorts, or questioning the purpose, since it still really is murky.

Also, knowing the financial circumstances of some or many here, acting like $20 isn't a big deal.............

Fine, the group has been established, and info is out there for those interested, not sure much else can be said, one is either interested or not at this point.

 

[waldenbound]

I just joined. I’m on board. I’m willing to give this organization a chance.

 

[Boondocker16]

Well said.  The "RV parks and designer clothing was going" is that many people, probably most people judge others by their looks and those can be deceiving. Rangers should never do that. I have met the most wonderful people you can ever imagine who mostly just hang out in the desert or the forest, living out of a car or a van or a bus or a trailer or whatever. They are just down to earth sorts who honor nature and being free. 

Nothing wrong with the community as a whole - we want to represent Boondockers whether they are full time, part time or do park time. It's more about uniting and giving us a collective whole so that when areas are being targeted for changes in the rules or regulations, we have a solid voice. I am more than willing to spearhead this - why? Because it is desperately needed. Change is in the air and we had better be in front of it. As I said in the video, this can NEVER be about ME - it has to be about "US", which means we need an active membership - those who are willing to talk to the Rangers, be proactive in helping us to do area cleanups and encourage mutual respect. Setting good examples is so very important, even if the only thing you do is to display the Arrived on/Departing sheet in your window - that is SOMETHING.

 

[Netter]

Hi,

I re- read the posts in the discussion on here and did not see anyone being critical of those who had doubts about joining, etc. 

This sounds like a good endeavor / cause, so I myself joined. If some don't want to, that is fine with me.

Count me in to spread goodwill, lead by example where cleanliness of "our land" and being respectful of other boondockers is concerned.

 

[SoulRaven]

I just gotta' ask, what "rules or regulations" are concerning to the group? Many of the changes are necessary, and some aren't changes but tightening/enforcing rules/regulations because of the types of people your group cleans up after. So far as towns/cities, would involvement in the homeless on the streets in RVs/vans/tents be a part of the advocacy? Not trying to be difficult, just trying to bring clarity to the actual "mission". I take becoming a "member" and representing any organization very seriously as do many others.

 

[SoulRaven]

RV Advocacy? As an Escapee member, got it covered: https://www.escapees.com/support/rv-advocacy Also, a bumper sticker announcing "boondocking" might not be advisable for those that stealth camp, anywhere you are parked, you might be suspected of planning to "boondock".

 

[Motrukdriver]

Trashy people are always gonna be trashy no matter how many bumper stickers we have on our vehicles. Yes, the majority of us already practice the if you haul it in you haul it out way of camping and keeping our campsites clean and I'll be the first one to call someone out for leaving trash. Organized cleanups are great and I'm all for that and will participate if I'm in an area where one is organized. On a personal level I'm one of the ones that will clean up the area around me that someone else trashed just because. I have a hard time joining an organization that asks for money to tell me to do the things I'm already doing without being asked to do it. Seen it before and it just becomes political and eventually someone's hand gets caught in the cookie jar or money gets spent on things like trash bags with the organization's name on it in hopes that others see it. I commend the folks trying to get this organized but other than bumper stickers that inform others that we clean up our campsites I can't see much else happening. On a broader note, I've been involved with different cleanups, spent lots of time picking up trash, hauling to dumps, etc.. One thing I have noticed is that about half the time the place that just got cleaned up will end up even more trashed just a few days later. The reason is simple, the people doing the dumping figure someone else is gonna clean it up so they have no dumpers remorse. You also have two different groups as well, campers that don't give a crap and never will and locals that don't want to pay the fee at the local dump all usually carried out in the still of night with no witnesses. Has anyone been to the area in Ehrenburg that got cleaned up yet? I'd be curious if it has been trashed again. This is just my two cents on the matter and I'm sure there are others with differing opinions. Not trying to start an arguement or anything and I truly hope this organization can get their mission accomplished.

 

[Boondocker16]

I appreciate what you are saying. Let's look at it like this: If you go to the store and buy a can of soda, do you chose a specific one? If so, why - because it has a label on it. We have bumper stickers and window notices. You haven't been in my shoes when I have walked into a Ranger station and explained who we are and what we do and to see the overwhelmingly positive reactions I get. They are SO HAPPY to know that when they see one of us, they can relax - One Ranger told me that he never knows what to expect when he approaches a rig or a tent and has to ticket them for overstaying or even talk to them. He has some harrowing tales of what he has seen and been around. They are very happy to know that there are those of us who readily go by THEIR RULES and Regulations (not mine). One Ranger told me he wished everyone would use one of our notices in their windows of when they arrived and when they are leaving. It's just one more thing that wears away the hours of their day - making sure everyone is minding the rules.

As I said, we are not enforcers. We are not working in tandem with the rangers - we are simply letting them know that we're the ones they WANT there. They have never seen that before - at least none of them I have seen. Sure, paying a $20 membership fee and sticking a bumper sticker on your vehicle and a notice in your window is not going to change who you are and make you some immaculate human being or anything, it is simply letting others know that you are one of those who CARE and you care enough to make a positive impression.

I am not a political person. Never have been, never want to be. I will not make any membership-wide decisions without input. I send out bulk emails called "Call to Action" if you are in the area and can do something, then do it. If not, then don't. I will have other email campaigns that will be something like "Call to Respond" where I am asking for your response to something. I don't want to do this alone, I CAN'T do this alone.

Just so you know - you can lose your membership in this organization if you do not follow area specific rules and regulations. As I will notify them or any problems we have with Rangers, I am quite sure they will notify me of any problems with one of our members. I am the head of the voice and I am willing to be that.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

Kathy,  Your opening sentence is what I call "strawmanning." (Taking the other parties stated position or concern and manipulating it or adding to it...in order to make it seem illogical, adversarial, offensive or antagonistic.) I seriously doubt there is a group of people active on these forums who wish to sabotage efforts to help our BLM lands...or our right to camp within them.
   
So the day after the video comes out, people said you put the cart before the horse. No one is saying your heart is not in the right place. I believe it is.

No one is attacking Kathy here.

    Unless things have changed, becoming a non profit is super super cheap. The theme of 'for profit' vs 'non profit' is already a recurring theme. If the success of BU is your goal, the wise thing to do is remove that stumbling block. Finding board members who will give good feedback and sincere efforts towards its success will certainly not be a problem. The rest of what you will need to do is all right here.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...e+a+501+non+profit+for+free&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Instead of seeing this as a problem, try to look at it as a positive. If you are going to be a good leader in this venture, you need to take suggestions (and even criticisms) in stride and roll with it.

    You are an intelligent accountant and business is business. Ask a person for money, no matter how much, and the gloves come off.
Proprietorships are for profitable businesses. (Not really sure why this venture would even require being registered as a sole proprietorship in the first place.) 
Non-profits are for what you have proposed.

"My intention has always been to make this into a non-profit..." is not what will solve this issue.

The sentence below is what will solve this issue.
"We are taking _____ and  _____ steps in becoming a '501,' our application for _____ was filed on _____ and we are waiting for this reply before we can take the next..." 

    Pontificating about the amount of dues requested being a lot or a little is not the issue. The outfit is either a way for Kathy to grab cash for herself or the outfit is truly to benefit all who use BLM land. Our land. I think you are working on setting up the latter. This is business though. That non-profit status needs to be in place with open books and an itemized plan of action.

 Lets get the brochures into the hands of a few power brokers.  Let's get some gear for cleanups donated by a hardware store outfit. Lets raffle off a few donated camping goodies to fund printing/booth/advertising costs.
Printing outfits can donate tracts explaining the impact changes on BLM lands.
How about getting some of the talent on Youtube to do a few 90 second spots on some focused issues? 30 second blurbs with photos showing the issues BU is working on...Every podcast on the RV subject should be resonating with BU fanfare...once the non-profit status is solid.

A non profit can hit up radio companies for solar powered GMRS repeater systems for use by campers. Just one radio on the rangers desk is light years better than a cell phone in an emergency.
(I sure would like to see this happen.)

I have more ideas than my arthritic fingers can type out right now.


So Kathy...What can I do to help you get that magic non-profit status so this can thrive?  

 

[SoulRaven]

This has me totally baffled. Would the Rangers be "policing" the members and reporting it to the organization? I just don't really see that. I think something is "off" in the wording of the 2nd sentence, last paragraph I think, is it addressing problems that people have with Rangers? Will the Rangers be turned in if one perceives a "problem" with one? I see more harm than good here, more regulation than not in the end.

I don't believe that a ranger has ever been intimidated by me, my family or pets or ever will be.

 

[Technomad]

I’ve seen this story before, it always ends the same way.

I’ll join egalitarian and service oriented clubs like good Sam and Escapees, but not wannabe policemen. (And before anyone protests, there are a lot of red flags in the info we already have— by definition these people want to make others act according to their “rules” and they want to get “law enforcement” involved.)

Hard NOPE.


PS- if they wish to prove me wrong, they can do so with their actions. I’ll keep an open mind, but like I said, too many red flags.

 

[DesertRose]

I don't see anything about this that is any different than any other organization. If you don't follow rules/guidelines/laws/requirements (whatever) you aren't a part of it anymore. I can understand people taking issue with this, for what I'm sure they feel are good reasons and past experiences, but really I'm not anxious to see 25 more posts on here about how this is a bad idea that probably won't work out. And calling it a scam is just downright offensive in my opinion.

Please try not to thwart something that has been clearly stated will become a 501(c)(3) with accountability and transparency.

No one is going to police you or report you or get in your face if you don't have a "Boondockers United" sticker on your vehicle. They'll just take care of things quietly and nicely.

But you know what, rules are everywhere in life. People still have to follow the BLM, State Land Trust, Public Lands, and any other governmental rules. Frankly if I saw someone heinously breaking those laws or pushing the envelope, especially if they're being an a-hole about it, I wouldn't hesitate to call. I think that is only fair. But I'm not gonna get in someone's face about it.

This is not directed at only Technomad, but everyone who has taken issue with this startup org.

 

[Technomad]

If you don't follow rules/guidelines/laws/requirements (whatever) you aren't a part of it anymore.

And calling it a scam is just downright offensive in my opinion.

Whoa, I never called it a scam and that implication isn’t right or fair.

One of the things that turns me off about this organization is that they seem to want to enforce their “rules” on people who are not participating or even members.

One of the stated goals is to “educate” people about these “rules”. It sure seems like these rules aren’t laws, but rules the organization is coming up with to present a better image of boondockers, or whatever.

That smells like busybodies to me, and busy bodies are always looking for something to get busy about.

Further “close relations with law enforcement” sure sounds like a threat— to get these rules backed up by people with guns.

You can protest that there are rules everywhere and imply people who are wary are some kind of anarchists— and hey, you are right, I’m totally an anarchist— but that’s not the point. That implication seems to be saying “if you don’t want to follow our rules that you never obligated yourself to by joining our organization, there’s something wrong with you”.

That’s the implication.

Take this as constructive feedback. Maybe it’s unintentional and you all just haven’t gotten your message down yet— I can sympathize. It can be tough to figure out an identity for a new organization, let alone figure out how to communicate it.

But I’m just giving you feedback on why I’m not joining and will give the organization a wide berth until they prove their intentions are good with their actions. Cause their words make me wary (and your response seems to confirm it.)


Hopefully you can take this in the constructive way it is intended.

PS- yes I’m really an anarchist, no that doesn’t mean I’m violent, quite the opposite— I oppose the violence inherent in rule by force. Not to start a political discussion but to explain why the whole assumption of not questioning “rules” and “laws” doesn’t hold away with me. Not any attempt to shame me for it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SoulRaven]

Taken issue? You mean asked about the intentions and how things were going to work? It is fine that this has been introduced here, I guess, although I didn't know that businesses could do that here, so was somewhat surprised by that. I'm probably thinking of another forum with that.

What does "take care of things quietly and nicely" mean? You won't find me with a sticker or having anything for anyone to take care of. Geesh!

When one opens themselves or their business up in social media across the web, one invites the world into their private little corner. That is life. Think of it as a "rule" from here on out.

No one has issues with enforcement of the rules/regulations or someone else tattling on them if they break them. Much of one's interaction with a ranger or other enforcement personnel has to do with the attitude displayed, not a bumper sticker.

This will be my last comment: There is an attitude that if one cares about the future of boondocking, one would cough up the $20, and that isn't so, and it has been an underlying theme here.

For those that are becoming members, "good for you", but you are making a choice, and so are those that aren't going to become members for whatever reason. Who to heck wouldn't ask a lot of questions about an organization that they were joining?

Done!

 

[Boondocker16]

So Kathy...What can I do to help you get that magic non-profit status so this can thrive?  

Hi JD! Let's take this to email instead of a public forum. I am all for all help we can generate for this cause. Please email me: 

[email protected]

 

[Minivanmotoman]

FWIW, couple ideas for BU.

1. Better name/logo denoting nature, appreciation and support as keywords to brainstorm a better name. What can we come up with? Nature Stewardship? Or??

2. Fund raising through promotional items while/and building awareness with products/logo sold at typical locations. Ideally make it self sustaining instead of membership fee and it's limitations.
 A. Trash bags with the logo on it. Get Glad to cosponsor. Decomposing bags. Bags manufactured at discount and sold at all campgrounds, popular parks, FS and BLM location. Use as fundraising and excuse to promote pick in pack out with all users encountered. We could all run around with Jehovah Witness zeal selling them! Yay, oh what fun! ?
 B. Souvenir, key chain,  promotional items, t shirts, etc.. Generate funds and promote awareness with a strong, attractive name and logo.

3. Manned Volunteer kiosks/ posters at camp hosts, entrance, etc... Need manpower and promotion which will make up or even replace funds or membership fees. It's about awareness, exposure and participation bottom line. And since we are already running around many of these areas, just need organization and good, clear, strong goals and commitment. 

4. Strong social media campaign and commitment.


 Other ideas???

The potential is as great as habitat for humanity, WWF, Greenpeace, etc...

We can build it up here or tear it down with petty criticism and divisiveness. Think this forum is a great place to start. If everyone would pitch in...

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

I like seeing somebody thinking up tangible improvements, especially #2 in your list. Wouldn't it be great to see people wrestling with 'action items', one after another!  Most improvements require seed money from somewhere, of course.

 

[John61CT]

>> there will be those who do not want us to unite and they will say and do anything they can to be sure that we do not have a voice.

That bit sounds to me a bit like "you're either with us or against us".

I am supportive of the idea but not enough to send in money just yet.

> My intention has always been to make this into a Non Profit 501c(3) organization. In order to do that, it needs members and money in the bank.

Maybe once that stage has been reached and bylaws published that show the board, budget and leadership are in fact controlled by the members.

But I'd be happy to be welcomed as an "ally in spirit" in the meantime.

 

[RVTravel]

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-p...tion-requirements-section-501c3-organizations
"To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct."

 

[JD GUMBEE]

When a person is responsible for every single thing going on in a new, uncharted situation like this, it is very easy to have things turn into a piranha fest on a forum like this.

There are no blueprints for what is being done here.

If we let Kathy get through the audit she is right in the middle of...and everyone respects the need for a little time here...I am confident that when she releases the public info packet/mission statement and goals sheets (currently being revised) the concerns brought forward in this thread will not only be addressed, but some people will be pleasantly surprised.