Best Refridgerator Solution?

[LeeRevell]

I'll only add that a 12 volt fridge can be a temporary lifesaver if the fridge in your S&B dies, or there's a weeklong power outage or something like that.

Regards
John

Yep, that's one of my thoughts too.  I have a 12volt 'cooler' that I decided to NOT use in the van, and will instead use the smaller compressor fridge I have coming.  It is small, but enough for the little bit of stuff I'd need to keep cool.
I do have a chest freezer here at the S&B, and having had to defrost it a couple times, I find it keeps the cold in very well for several days without power, and I do have a couple gensets to power it if needs be, if we have a serious long power outage.  We are still in Hurricane Season, and have been having many thunderstorms, resulting in short power outages. 
Need to get a couple Marine batteries, then I could use my two 145W panels to keep the little 12v fridge and cooler going in an emergency.  It would be a fair test of the solar/battery system before finally installing it on the big van.
One big use I plan for the little 12V fridge is for my periodic motorcycle event roadtrips.  It can ride just behind the console in the minivan or between the seats in the big van and carry drinks and sandwiches while driving.

 

[offroad]

Instructable about putting bigger wheels on a cooler. Read the comments section for doing a few alternatives. Found this very interesting for those taking the path to using a cooler.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Big-Wheel-Beach-Cooler/

 

[akrvbob]

if one uses their imagination you can find a multitude of uses for the melted ice water. From watering plants, filling a bird bath, washing dishes to putting out a camp fire. There's no reason that water needs to go to waste.

I've always treated water that came out of the cooler like it was toxic.

Near my winter camp in Ehrenberg AZ is a little store with water, trash and showers who caters to us, he even rents mail boxes and I get one every winter. He had bushes outside the store and they all died.

Right after he put up a sign that said "Do not dump cooler water on the plants, it kills them." He's convinced that people dumping their cooler water on them killed them.

I don't know if it did or not but I've always treated water that came out of the cooler like it was toxic. I only use it to rinse my pee-pots.
Bob

 

[Almost There]

Near my winter camp in Ehrenberg AZ is a little store with water, trash and showers who caters to us, he even rents mail boxes and I get one every winter. He had bushes outside the store and they all died.

Right after he put up a sign that said "Do not dump cooler water on the plants, it kills them." He's convinced that people dumping their cooler water on them killed them.

I don't know if it did or not but I've always treated water that came out of the cooler like it was toxic. I only use it to rinse my pee-pots.
Bob

They were probably desert style plants that prefer dry ground. They were likely killed not by toxic water but by the volume of water poured on them. If only every 5th customer poured a gallon of water on them the roots would drown.

Kinda like some people can kill house plants with too much kindness...

The cooler water isn't toxic. A lot of people buy the same ice in cube form for in their drinks. It does get a little yucky from sitting in the cooler that hasn't been cleaned well and from the outside of all the containers that are sitting in the water. I wouldn't drink it but using it for other things makes sense.

 

[ramblingvanman]

I treat cooler water the same as I would any gray or non-potable water and use it in much the same way.

 

[SternWake]

For only 2 to 3 months of use, I don;t know if I would go with a fridge either. I did the cooler and block ice thing for 6 years before getting solar and a 12v compressor fridge.

One need not buy a 300$ cooler. one can use a cheaper cooler and make an insulated box that it slides into.

Get some 2 inch foamboard insulation sheet at home depot, and some duct tape or similar and some bamboo skeweers to hold it together while you tape it.

You can fill the voids between cooler and foamboard with sawdust for even more insulation. I used to have a plastic box kept from floating with fasteners which would fit inside the cooler and keep the food dryer, but for the condensation, and another piece of foamboard that went over the rest of the cooler so that when the lid was opened, less of the cold air escaped.

The worst part about a cooler is having to empty it, clean it regularly, and the fact that the block ice itself takes up most of the room inside.

When I acquired an IR thermometer, I found that in many spots the food was not kept at safe temperatures unless in direct contact with the ice.

I'm spoiled with having a 12v fridge and more than enough solar for it. Always dry and always under 35F, for well under 18 amp hours a day in my case.

 

[highdesertranger]

the sickest I have ever been in my life was from drinking ice chest water. I know, I know, but I was young and dumb. the doc said the glue on the paper labels is no bueno. so I would do like Bob said treat it like it's toxic. highdesertranger

 

[LoupGarou]

Bob

I'd consider the melted ice water toxic if there had been items such as aluminum cans or bottles with detached labels swimming in it. As I posted, I contain my ice inside a bucket placed within the ice chest. Anything placed within the ice chest remains dry and chilled.

 

[eapvan]

Have any of you tried putting a temp. controller on a small chest freezer? From what I've read, the KWh usage becomes almost negligible. Here's a link I've saved so that I can try it as soon as I find a good used freezer for cheap:

http://www.aselfsufficientlife.com/...on-the-most-energy-efficient-fridge-ever.html

 

[LeeRevell]

At my prior S&B home (a rental) I used a timer to control my fridge - had it only kick in and run an hour on then four hours off.  Never had food spoilage troubles, and saved power.   I'd do it again if I used a full size fridge.

 

[offroad]

Have any of you tried putting a temp. controller on a small chest freezer? From what I've read, the KWh usage becomes almost negligible. Here's a link I've saved so that I can try it as soon as I find a good used freezer for cheap:

http://www.aselfsufficientlife.com/...on-the-most-energy-efficient-fridge-ever.html

Have seen this mentioned a few times. Put a timer on that freezer. Change the temperature sensor to just above freezing. Get a cheap food storage unit.

 

[eapvan]

I was thinking more of keeping the temp at around 32-38 degrees so I could use it as a refrigerator. Igloo makes a freezer that's 22.25 x 22.25 x 32.5, so I'm hoping I can find an old one about the same size.

 

[Bdog1]

Why is this more efficient? (Seen them recommended on solar home sites also.) Is it just the top door feature? Is the compressor more effective?

 

[akrvbob]

The question of whether the ice water in your cooler is safe hinges on how much you use it. I used my last one for 6 years straight 100% of the time. If something spilled or it started to smell, I'd clean it with bleach, but that wasn't very often. So I think you would agree it was not healthy water.

However, if you use it a few times a year and and cleaned it with bleach after each use, it might be okay.

I still wouldn't do it, but at least you can make the argument it was okay. My guess is that the plastic in them is not food-safe, so why add an extra load of unhealthy chemicals if you can easily avoid it?
Bob

 

[SternWake]

There is nothing magical about a residential chest freezer, in its ability to cool.  It is all about the extra insulation, and the fact that there is no door seal at the bottom to let the heat enter the box which the cooling unit must then remove.

The 'cold air spilling out' on a front loading fridge is given more weight by many than it actually deserves.  When the Lid is opened on a chest style fridge, the very act of opening the lid is going  to exchange a significant portion of the air within the box.  Is it more efficient than a front loader, of course, but some would have you believe it instills magical properties.  It is my opinion that the chest style is more efficient simply because there is no thin door seal at the very bottom like on a front loader, that the act of opening the door/lid will exchange a significant portion of the air inside either way.

Now if one were to leave the fridge open like many stick and brickers do when getting food, then the difference in efficiency in design would be more significant.  But for a battery powered dweller, leaving the door open is unwise, and the actual difference in battery power consumed would be minimal and difficult to measure, all other factors being equal.



When powering a 120Vac refer, the inverter choice makes a huge difference.  It must be big enough to handle the  start up surge and it must be kept on 24/7 to provide power anytime the fridge decides to kick on.

My Wagan 400 watt PSW inverter could not handle the start up surge, and if it could, it draws 0.24amps turned on, powering nothing
My coleman 800 watt MSW inverter might handle the start up surge, but it consumes 0.62 amps turned on powering nothing.

My 12vDC Vitrifrigoc51is  rarely ever consumes more than 0.8 amps per hour.  It barely uses any more electricity than my MSW inverter would, turned on, powering nothing.

My front loading fridge has 3/4" foil faced  foam board insulation added to it, and  resides within an insulated cabinet designed to promote airflow over and through the cooling unit.  I recently had a friend's ARB 50 quart chest style fridge, and it had the extra insulative cover as well.  My front loading Vitrifrigo averaged about 15 to 20% less energy consumption than that ARB fridge in the 3 weeks I had it in my possession.  Why, because of more insulation and better heat removal from condenser.  It should be noted my VF fridge was opened more often than the ARB too.

If you seek the least battery power consumed on any compressor fridge, it is best achieved by extra insulation, and making sure the condenser is not recycling air it itself has already heated.  Get a chest style compressor fridge and make a foil faced foamboard box for it making sure not to obstruct the vents for the cooling unit.  If the compressor is a Danfoss BD35f, this compressor controller can handle powering 0.5 amps of computer fan.  The fan which comes on most condensers consumes only 0.12 amps or so.  One can hook another fan to the compressor controller and exchange the air around the unit better and increase efficiency.  It is very easy to hook up another fan to the Danfoss compressor controller, and it will make up for its own energy consumption easily, and promote the lifespan of the compressor too.

Decreasing the heat of the interior of the vehicle also makes a huge difference in the fridges duty cycle and battery consumption.  Keep the sun out with reflective window shades on the sunny sides, and have a means of exchanging inside air for outside air.

Computer fans do better at pushing air through a restriction rather than pulling it through a restriction and are quieter too.  I removed the noisy 0.12amp 120MM fan (72 CFM) provided with my Vitrifrigo, that was mounted to pull air through the condenser, and replaced it with a Noctua NF-F12 fan which moves ~53CFM and consumes only 0.05amps.  This fan is now mounted to push air through the condenser and across compressor and controller.  It pulls cool filtered air from the floor below the fridge,  and it forces it out of the fridge compartment with no chance to be recycled.  The amount of time the fridge compressor cycled on for, instantly dropped with this simple modification, and I find it a bit perplexing why they would not employ this  fan orientation from the factory.

An inverter turned on and powering nothing can consume nearly as much as a dc compressor fridge would consume  in the same time frame.

Some inverters promote very low parasitic  currents or advertise a standby feature, but they all seem to be high dollar units.

There is no free ride with  refrigeration via battery power, no magical solution which saves money.  Anything requiring an inverter is going to require more battery capacity, and more recharging ability, and that cost must be factored in, along with shorter overall battery life as they will simply be used up faster even if the charging sources are increased and they do get fully charged daily.

If one is full time van dwelling, and living primarily off of battery power, then the best option, least expensive in the long run, is a 12v compressor fridge.  Add some insulation and make sure the cooling unit can breathe easily, and one can do no better at this point in time.

If one already has a huge battery bank and plenty of Solar, then that person can get away with powering an 120Vac residential fridge, and this solution also makes sense for those who drive from rv park to rv park and get to plug in to the grid on arrival.  Many with larger RV's whose finicky absorption/propane/3way fridges fail prematurely or cool inadequately go the residential fridge route and are happy as they do not or rarely boondock, and likely have generator backup anyway.

The person setting up a new system for boondocking, and decides to save 350$ buying a residential fridge instead of a 12vDC fridge, will spend more than 350$ on the larger inverter, the extra battery capacity, and the extra charging capability required to run it with ease.  The battery lifespan will also be shortened, even if they are recharged properly.  And the likelihood that they are charged properly diminishes with a higher load cycling on and off, and the inverter itself chewing up 0.5 amps an hour just waiting for the fridge compressor to cycle back on.

Even if one already has a dorm fridge, and an inverter big enough to handle it, one needs to have enough battery capacity and recharging ability to power the energy hogs.

  Is it workable? Certainly, is it economical in the long run, likely not.

If one needs to have refrigeration, bite the bullet and purchase a 12v compressor fridge.  It will save you money in the long run.

 

[highdesertranger]

very good summary Stern. highdesertranger

 

[eapvan]

You've given me a lot to think about Stern. Thank you.

 

[Reducto]

If you're using a lot of ice, invest in a few giant ziplock bags. Empty the ice into the bags before placing them in the cooler. No more nasty cooler water, no more food items or cardboard packaging getting ruined by sitting in water.

A 12v compressor fridge is ideal for long term use, but for occasional/seasonal use those igloo 5 day coolers are great.

 

[offroad]

New igloo cooler bought at TARGET on sale. Perfect. Half price of everywhere else. Must be the sale season for gear.

 

[jimindenver]

I have been reading through the thread because during a recent trip we were short on fridge space, over loaded the propane fridge and ended up tossing some food. We had a cooler but ice was a 24 mile round trip and the last four miles took up to 30 minutes in just a truck. ( really slow going with the trailer)

Now if I had known we were going to need it, I would have left the cooler at home and brought the old Ice box. The difference is the ice box stands and the ice stays in a holder in the top while the food stays dry. We do have a 12v absorption dorm sized fridge but it is tiny for the constant 8 amps it pulls. (great beer and pop fridge)

I can't afford a 12v fridge for as little as we use it but a high efficiency mini fridge can be found on CL for well under $100. We run the Tripp-lite inverter all of the time and between the solar and batteries, we can afford the power. So I will be looking for the most efficient mini and will add insulation to it. The Danby designer has a good sized freezer, that's a plus since the RV fridge has a tiny one.