Beginner's Solar Installation Workshop

[tx2sturgis]

planning a wide, weather resistant wood frame cradling the length of the panels. rubber insulated mounting.

Ah hah said the blind man!

Yeah I envisioned adding a length of aluminum angle stock but that 'wood' work too!

 

[Sleep]

I have been dealing with a lot of uncared for batteries out here so please, please, please get some controllers that can be set up properly for absorb voltage and time allotted.

Jim, can you please elaborate on the section above? 

 

[John61CT]

In order for a bank to get to the 100% Full required for longevity, the owner needs to have a controller whose charge profile can be customized.

Absorb voltage needs to be held long enough for trailing amps to fall to (endAmps) of .005C, or half an amp per 100AH capacity.

If this doesn't happen most days automatically, you are murdering your bank.

Even the top brands usually have default settings that drop to Float way too early.

aka premature infloatulation

There are a few controllers that work off a shunt-based ammeter to measure actual endAmps at the bank; that is the ideal.

But 99% require you to trial and error with egg-timer settings until you see it working properly, as ling as your load consumption usage patterns are consistent.

 

[Van Lady]

In order for a bank to get to the 100% Full required for longevity, the owner needs to have a controller whose charge profile can be customized.

Absorb voltage needs to be held long enough for trailing amps to fall to (endAmps) of .005C, or half an amp per 100AH capacity.

If this doesn't happen most days automatically, you are murdering your bank.

Even the top brands usually have default settings that drop to Float way too early.

aka premature infloatulation

There are a few controllers that work off a shunt-based ammeter to measure actual endAmps at the bank; that is the ideal.

But 99% require you to trial and error with egg-timer settings until you see it working properly, as ling as your load consumption usage patterns are consistent.

I am willing to bet there is not one woman in 100 that understands your post. I sure don’t. It is a totally foreign language. I believe that is why Jim is running across so many neglected batteries. I do not want to neglect my batteries, but if my isolator does not charge them correctly while I am driving or my generator does not charge them correctly when I run it, what am I supposed to do?

 

[John61CT]

I am willing to bet there is not one woman in 100 that understands your post. I sure don’t. It is a totally foreign language. I believe that is why Jim is running across so many neglected batteries. I do not want to neglect my batteries, but if my isolator does not charge them correctly while I am driving or my generator does not charge them correctly when I run it, what am I supposed to do?

I hope you don't think your being a woman has anything to do with it, other than perhaps your self-confidence to figure this stuff out.

Yes 75% of learning any new topic area is learning the jargon, vocabulary specialized for that topic.

If you go through my post(s) and google phrases I'm sure you will quickly learn a lot.

If you get stuck on one part, feel free to post specific questions and many here including myself will be happy to help you learn.

On this particular issue, read your controller's user manual and google to make sure you understand, you'll see similar terms from here and pretty soon it starts to make sense.

Or of course you can ask someone to help you in person or even just do it for you, many here talk about doing just that, sometimes even for free.

 

[Van Lady]

I hope you don't think your being a woman has anything to do with it, other than perhaps your self-confidence to figure this stuff out.

Yes 75% of learning any new topic area is learning the jargon, vocabulary specialized for that topic.

If you go through my post(s) and google phrases I'm sure you will quickly learn a lot.

If you get stuck on one part, feel free to post specific questions and many here including myself will be happy to help you learn.

On this particular issue, read your controller's user manual and google to make sure you understand, you'll see similar terms from here and pretty soon it starts to make sense.

Or of course you can ask someone to help you in person or even just do it for you, many here talk about doing just that, sometimes even for free.

You are very kind (and smart).
It is just too much for this senior to do. When I was younger, I could have taken it on and succeeded at it. But the brain is tired now......Too old to learn a foreign language.
Maybe when I am at a gathering some time and my path crosses one of you knowledgeable people I can ask some questions.
I do believe that is what Jim is going through now. There are a lot of us senior women vanning these days. I hope you guys remember we (ladies in our 60’s) were not even allowed to take automobile shop or drafting, etc.. in school. We are the end of the generation of women who still had to wear dresses to school and take home economics!!!
Thanks for your contributions to the forum!

 

[John61CT]

OK, but I still believe if you just take it slow, it's well within your reach.

Maybe put up a note at the library or youth center, find a keen teenager to help teach you, maybe $10 an hour around here they would beat a path to your door protector in pocket and DMM in hand.

And you'd be helping them too in so many ways.

 

[jimindenver]

Jim, can you please elaborate on the section above? 

Anytime you allow someone or something to make decisions for you , you get what it decides not what is best for you. As John said you need a controller that can be set to do what you need it to do and I only know the $100 Eco-worthy 20 amp MPPT that can be custom set in seconds and the big Morningstar TriStar's that require a computer connection and program but what you can set is amazing. John is also right in that the automatic settings in most any controller sucks. It is so because how is the company to know just what batteries YOU  have. They set them up trying to hit a general target when there are different requirements of say different brands of AGM's. They would have to have a custom profile for every brand and type of battery doing firmware updates when new ones were added to the list. A custom profile that you set for your batteries will get you what you need.

We need an affordable controller that can be set and the price has to include the cost of adapters, dongles and what not. That way people really know what it cost.

 

[jimindenver]

It isn't just women that I have been helping out here. Many people think it is like their car that you just put the key in and turn it. They think that the kit or controller they bought will take care of everything without them needing to understand anything about it. The gear is failing them because they are led to believe it will by advertising or recommendations. Kits and some pro installations are done with the companies bottom line in mind not your best interest. Under wiring and cheap controllers are the hallmark of this and the people have no idea. All they know is that they have solar and it should all be okay.

 

[Burbanlife]

It isn't just women that I have been helping out here. Many people think it is like their car that you just put the key in and turn it. They think that the kit or controller they bought will take care of everything without them needing to understand anything about it. The gear is failing them because they are led to believe it will by advertising or recommendations. Kits and some pro installations are done with the companies bottom line in mind not your best interest. Under wiring and cheap controllers are the hallmark of this and the people have no idea. All they know is that they have solar and it should all be okay.

Jimindenver, would this controller the EPEVER 20A MPPT be a good unit that can adjust voltages to the AGM UB121000 batteries? I have 2 of those and just installed a Isolator.  I have the Renogy wanderer controiller and Two 100 watt panels, but after reading this I am looking into this controller. Thanks  here is the controller : https://www.amazon.com/EPEVER-Contr...words=epever+20a+mppt+solar+charge+controller

 

[John61CT]

As you know I like to put one $100 controller per (properly matched) panel.
I prefer the dongle be separate so you don't have to pay for it more than once, if you're only using it at setup time, or maybe once a month.

One dongle can service dozens of controllers.

But now I see it only adds 20%, so, fine.

The dongle is still useful for the BMV.

And prices will drop further.

The really useful feature is a shunt ammeter right at the battery so the SC is accurately based on acceptance endAmps no matter how much variability you might have with your loads from day to day.

 

[jimindenver]

Jimindenver, would this controller the EPEVER 20A MPPT be a good unit that can adjust voltages to the AGM UB121000 batteries? I have 2 of those and just installed a Isolator.  I have the Renogy wanderer controiller and Two 100 watt panels, but after reading this I am looking into this controller. Thanks  here is the controller : https://www.amazon.com/EPEVER-Contr...words=epever+20a+mppt+solar+charge+controller

Doing a bit of research it is confusing. In one answer it is said to get user defined settings you need a different controller but in others it talks about using the remote panel for setting it up and the ability to get the proper cord to connect a PC and get programing for logging and parameter settings. What those settings are I have not determined.

In any event I do know this is a older model now often seen rebranded. The newer 2215BN can be had for a bit more but you have to buy the MT50 separately. Around the $150 range but it does have user defined settings in the description.

 

[Burbanlife]

Doing a bit of research it is confusing. In one answer it is said to get user defined settings you need a different controller but in others it talks about using the remote panel for setting it up and the ability to get the proper cord to connect a PC and get programing for logging and parameter settings. What those settings are I have not determined.

In any event I do know this is a older model now often seen rebranded. The newer 2215BN can be had for a bit more but you have to buy the MT50 separately. Around the $150 range but it does have user defined settings in the description.

Thanks, I found this on Amazon, which I guess is the new version you were speaking of. https://www.amazon.com/EPsolar-2215...ie=UTF8&qid=1512915221&sr=8-1&keywords=2215BN

It comes with the MT50 , so I think I will order this and then able to set some battery parameters.  If you think this is a good buy please let me know. Again thanks

 

[highdesertranger]

sorry if this has been asked before. what the hell is a dongle? highdesertranger

 

[jimindenver]

A dongle is a device that makes other devices able to connect via bluetooth. Being out here and finding out you need something like a dongle, remote pabel or computer cable is like opening your Christmas gift and finding out it needs batteries. That is why the extra gear to make it useful should be included in the recommendation. The Dongle is half again as much money as the cheap Victrons and results in sticker shock. The Morningstar remote displays are even more and you still need a computer and cords to see and do the most. So it is a disservice to not include that info when comparing one $100 controller with another that does not need a display or dongle to see and change settings.

 

[John61CT]

In general, any little accessory gizmo that plugs into a port on the main unit for its own specific purpose, as opposed to a cable connecting to something bigger.

In the old days CAD software would only run on the computer with the licensing control dongle present, how the company prevented piracy.

 

[akrvbob]

That’s why I’m a big fan of the Blue Skies 3000i. Compleatly user setable right on the face—nothing else to buy.

 

[John61CT]

the Blue Sky 3000i

I'm a little puzzled by the different capacity per PV cell count. But setting that aside, yes very configurable and value priced if you match the panels to get 30A.

The 20A load LVD is higher than most, and with the BM accessory looks like it might do "excess load shedding"?

But the **really excellent** and (so far to me ) unique feature is the ability to turn Float off completely.

Combined with a really short Absorb hold time, this controller may well be the most suitable for a LFP bank that I've found so far.

 

[peteyzenn]

you can consider solar panels as a battery. sure it's good to match all the battery and in line, but if you are using it in parallel, in small quantity, small gains you get from all the mppt and amperate balancing won't make much difference, not to pay out in the long end. unless you got some impressive amount of wattage to deal with, if you are doing a van roof setup, i would just go with a simple pwm rather than mppt.

if you intend to go with more than 1000w max, then by all means go to mppt.

 

[peteyzenn]

you can consider solar panels as a battery. sure it's good to match all the battery and in line, but if you are using it in parallel, in small quantity, small gains you get from all the mppt and amperate balancing won't make much difference, not to pay out in the long end. unless you got some impressive amount of wattage to deal with, if you are doing a van roof setup, i would just go with a simple pwm rather than mppt.

if you intend to go with more than 1000w max, then by all means go to mppt.

like, instead of getting a mppt, for 20% gain under ideal condition for extra $100, just add another 300w panel on top. that would shield your roof from the sun's rays.