battery rating (amp/hrs)

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

anm

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
423
Reaction score
0
Location
El Paso
I've been looking at solar panels, batteries, charge controllers, etc, etc, etc and all I've gotten is confused, so let's start simple.

Battery amp hours:
I've been looking at some small AGM batteries which have the following specs:
  1. 420 cca
  2. 10hr - 35(A)
I'm sure 420 is the cold cranking amps, and I think the 10hr - 35(A) means that at a constant 35 amp current draw the battery will last ~10 hours. Is that right?

Now I've seen solar panel kits that 'specify' a 100ah battery. Is that cca? I'm not sure I've seen any batteries with the cca that low. So assuming it's not the cca, then is it the other number(s). 35 amps for 10 hours is 350 ah, so would this battery be too large for the solar panel kit which specified at 100ah?

But I've also looked at Renogy's installation manual and they have nothing about sizing the battery to the solar panels, it's as though any battery and any panel is ok (though I'm sure there really is a limit).
 
The AGM you are looking at has 35 amp hours when measured at the 10 hour rate. Standard measurements are the 20 hour rate. 10 hour rates. 5 hour rates and even 2 hour rates all inflate the figure and make the battery appear to be higher capacity than its competitor. Marketing trickery. Lots of Wally world batteries are using 10 hour rates which make the capacity figures look better than they are. buyer beware.

Look for an AGM in the group 27 or group 31 size. These will have 90 to 115 amp hours capacity.

CCA ratings are not really so pertinent to deep cycle usage. Most deep cycle batteries will not even list a CCA figure as the batteries were not designed to start engines where high CCA numbers are wanted. But this is changing as so many consumers want to see that big number in front of the CCA, MCA or CA figures.

Most AGMs have naturally high CCA numbers due to low internal resistance.

If you are shopping for price alone on the AGM, you will be led down the path of an Asian AGM. These might already be capacity compromised as these batteries self discharge faster than higher quality AGMs that advertise pure lead plates and the last time they were fully charged was at time of manufacturer, in China, before being put on the slow boat.

I would not order batteries online, even with free shipping, as freshness is very important with batteries. you do not want one which has been sitting on a shelf in a warehouse waiting for somebody to click 'place order'

Find a battery distributor in your area that moves a lot of volume. Even these will push their oldest stock at you, but come in with a voltmeter and test each one in the line and take the one with the highest resting voltage, if possible.

Batteries Plus sells a Northstar AGM as a X2 power. I have a Northstar AGM. I find it to be very impressive in the voltages it holds when deep cycling, and how quickly it cranks my engine. Not a cheap AGM, but top quality is never cheap. I urge you to not shop by price unless you expect to be a complete battery abuser and consider the first battery to be disposable, and indeed many newbies to battery living are battery killers and a high quality high dollar battery is still damaged by chronic undercharging/over discharging.

But the less expensive Asian AGM's could be capacity compromised when delivered, so the money saved, is false. Take careful aim at foot, and shoot.
 
SternWake said:
...
Look for an AGM in the group 27 or group 31 size. These will have 90 to 115 amp hours capacity.
...
That is the amp hour figure that's got me confused, how does that battery compare to the battery with 420 cca, 10hr - 35(a)?

When you say 90-115 amp hours, is that the 50% level?

btw, my feet heal pretty quickly...
 
The amp hour figure is a measure of battery capacity. It is directly related to the size and weight of the lead acid battery.

CCA is a measure of how quickly the battery can release its stored energy, to provide current to a high amp load, like a car starter motor.

While battery capacity is directly correlated to battery size and weight, CCA numbers can vary widely among batteries of the same weight, depending on if they were designed with many thin porous lead plates for maximum surface area (starting batteries) or constructed with thicker denser plates designed for slower discharge cycles, and many more of them.

Many AGMs will have high CCA ratings due to less internal resistance and are better dual purpose batteries, than flooded batteries designed as dual purpose batteries, like Marine batteries which fall inbetween true deep cycle and starting. Marine batteries will put a deep cycle sticker on them, but a true deep cycle battery is constructed differently.

With most AGMs the difference between a starting battery version and the marine version is the addition of threaded studs in addition to automotive posts, and warranty, where as flooded batteries are internally different.

So there is no way to get 100 amp hours from a small battery. Ignore the CCA specs when looking for a battery which is to be cycled. The CCA figure is not important unless the battery is going to be used to start the engine.

Reserve minutes are another measure of capacity and this is kind of a confusing measure of capacity. The standard measure of capacity is the 20 hour rate, and I feel other rates like the 5 or 10 hour rate or reserve minutes are deliberately misleading when applied to a battery.

If your solar controller says to get a hundred amp hour battery, then a group 27/ 29 or 31 battery is what you need to look for, and anything else, any other size battery is not going to fall in this hundred amp hour range. There is no way to stuff more capacity into a lead acid battery. It is directly related to size and weight. 100 amp hours capacity is going to be right around 60 LBs. There is no way around this with a lead acid battery. Beware of the marketing departments. They are clueless about their product, except on how to maximize sales, and this is basically trickery with the OK given by what the lawyers find to be acceptable risk.

And yes a 100 amp hour battery only had 50 amp hours available to use, but no need to try and outguess the intent of the recommendation.


OOne more point I should clarify is that AGM batteries weigh more than flooded batteries of the same rated capacity.

I have a group 27 Northstar AGm rated at 91 amp hours which weighs 74 Lbs,
and a group 31 flooded battery rated at 130 amp hours, which weighs 67 Lbs

So compare AGM to AGm and flooded to flooded.

BTW my AGM blows away the Flooded battery in terms of voltage held under load, and CCA. The fully charged AGM can start my engine so quickly it is scary, where as the fully charged flooded 31 is a wimp in comparison.
 
The battery you are looking at is junk, don't even consider it. Much too small for solar use.

Assuming you are on a budget and just want a cheap battery about the right size, go to Walmart and buy a Marine group 29 battery.

If you want a better AGM battery, go to Batteries plus and get the one Sternwake recommended.

Disregard CCA they don't apply to solar installs.
Bob
 
SW Did a great job of answering everything, good luck with your project!
 
@Sternwake: Thanks for all the good info, I looked at the Northstar AGMs and they're out of my price range, so it looks like Wally World is going to be my battery source.
@akrvbob: You always cut through to the chase, a Marine group 29 it will be.
Thanks to both of you for your knowledge and insight...
 
One of the main reasons I recommend the WalMart marine is their good warranty. Keep your receipts and chances are good you can get a full replacement if it fails too soon.

Bob
 
I think Wally world invented the group 29 size, as dimensionally it is the same as a group 31 and I've found no other manufacturer producing a group 29. Not sure of the motivation for that. The group 29 of years ago was actually a USbattery group 31 with a wally world sticker on it. I believe johson controls ios now making the group 31 with a group 29 sticker on it currently, but I would not put money on that.

The battery I am using now for daily cycling is a group 31 USbattery, and it requires 14.9v for 2 hours and then 15.3v for the rest of the day, and after 2 weeks of cycles I need to give it at least 30 minutes of 16V to max out the SG and reset performance. These voltage setpoints and durations were found by using a Hydrometer. US battery now recommends 14.7 ABSV and 15.3v only as a monthly equalization, but I found these setpoints caused the battery to fall flat on its face ofter 2 weeks. I nearly recycled it/ returned it in the first month.

A good hydrometer will allow you to not have to bother using the warranty. New flooded batteries should be fully charged and have specific gravity readings taken to measure the baseline numbers. The you can see of the charging sources you use are getting it back up to maximum baseline. The closer you can get the battery to max SG, the better it will perform and for longer.

Trusting any charger to actually fully charge any specific battery, is a bit fool hearty. Most plug in automatic chargers will stop in the 92 to 95% range.

And as much as I use the terms 'manufacture recommended voltage setpoints" I found they are not always ideal, or even adequate, but are a good starting point. The hydrometer is the truth syrum tool. A glass turkey baster style with a thermometer for temperature compensation is the best flooded battery tool available. Voltage as an indicator of state of charge is kind of like throwing an object at a rubber band and seeing how far the band flexes. Voltage is only accurate on a rested battery, one which has not seen charging or discharging currents for many hours.

but watching a voltmeter often during discharges and knowing you are starting from a fully charged battery can give a good idea with enough practice. the hard part is starting from zero, when most charging sources will not actually do it. A battery fresh off an equalization charge holds significantly higher voltages the next discharge cycle than it does than after a normal "full" charge.
 
akrvbob said:
One of the main reasons I recommend the WalMart marine is their good warranty. Keep your receipts and chances are good you can get a full replacement if it fails too soon.

Bob
I always hang on to receipts for that sort of stuff. I have had them give me a new battery when there was nothing wrong with the old one, nothing that charging wouldn't have fixed anyway...


SternWake said:
...
And as much as I use the terms 'manufacture recommended voltage setpoints" I found they are not always ideal, or even adequate, but are a good starting point. The hydrometer is the truth syrum tool. A glass turkey baster style with a thermometer for temperature compensation is the best flooded battery tool available.
...
I remember those, is that kind of hydrometer still available?
 
Top