Battery Hell ! Could really use some advice ...

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Clan Graham

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I am lost. My bus came to me with the beginnings of a conversion already started. So I do not know if the battery setup I have now is original, or has been modified. Right now my full length school bus, with NA Cat-3208 has two dead 8D batteries. but here is my problem : I have NO clue if it actually needs two batteries for cranking purposes or not. Does anyone know this ?
So now, I have found the least expensive 8D batteries are going to cost me around $550 for a pair. This gets me approx 440 amp hours. For that same $550, I can also get four of these :

http://www.solar-electric.com/cr225am6vode.html?gclid=CNTC6Lz6hbsCFSEV7AodvmkArw

And this is going to give me 880 amp hours. This SEEMS to be a better option ... BUT, if anyone could steer me towards any less expensive options, I would really appreciate it !

Ideally, I would prefer to buy a single simple cranking battery for now, buy the golf cart batteries online, and then pick them up in Arizona when we go back to California. But once again, I have no clue if a simple single battery will properly crank the bus.

As I said, some advice would be most helpful ...
 
How are the two 8D batteries wired together? Is the positive on one hooked to the positive on the other, or does the positive on one go to the negative on the second battery?

If the first, the batteries are wired together in parallel and it's a 12 volt system.

If the second, the batteries are wired together in series and it's a 24 volt system.

The Cat 3208 is a huge, heavy diesel motor. I suspect that these two 8D batteries are not your house batteries, I think they are your starting battery

For your purposes, you should not be looking at how many amp-hours the batteries hold, you should be looking at how many Cold Cranking Amps they are capable of.

Even the small diesels used in pick-up trucks need two batteries to provide enough amps to crank them over. A huge diesel like this Cat will almost certainly need two batteries to start it.

Are there any labels on your current batteries as far as how many cranking amps they provide?

Sorry I'm not more help.

Regards
John
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
How are the two 8D batteries wired together? Is the positive on one hooked to the positive on the other, or does the positive on one go to the negative on the second battery?

If the first, the batteries are wired together in parallel and it's a 12 volt system.

If the second, the batteries are wired together in series and it's a 24 volt system.

The Cat 3208 is a huge, heavy diesel motor. I suspect that these two 8D batteries are not your house batteries, I think they are your starting battery

For your purposes, you should not be looking at how many amp-hours the batteries hold, you should be looking at how many Cold Cranking Amps they are capable of.

Even the small diesels used in pick-up trucks need two batteries to provide enough amps to crank them over. A huge diesel like this Cat will almost certainly need two batteries to start it.

Are there any labels on your current batteries as far as how many cranking amps they provide?

Sorry I'm not more help.

Regards
John

Hi John ... It is wired in parallel, for a 12 volt system. I have NO choice in this matter : My house batteries and cranking batteries will have to be one in the same. I can not afford two banks of batteries.

Here is the only specs I can find on the 6 volt batteries :

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/wind-sun/Crown-CR-220-specs.pdf

The two 8D batteries I currently have are the Interstate batteries. They are 1400 cca each.

I am clueless if four of the 6 volt batteries I linked above are capable of being starting batteries. I sure as hell hope so !
 
how do you know that you need new batteries, there could be something that is drawing juice and all they need is a charge. I would charge them up and if you want you can get them load tested at an auto electric shop or probably other mechanical shops as well. I am almost certain those are your cranking batteries,
 
flying kurbmaster2 said:
how do you know that you need new batteries, there could be something that is drawing juice and all they need is a charge. I would charge them up and if you want you can get them load tested at an auto electric shop or probably other mechanical shops as well. I am almost certain those are your cranking batteries,

Well I know for sure they are my cranking batteries, as they are the only batteries in the bus. I have to keep jumping the bus to start it, so I know they are dead. I do not have anything wired in the bus yet ... so it is unlikely their is a drain on them.
 
I looked at the pics you posted on your other thread. With the terminals in the condition I'm seeing there you might just need cleaning, a good charge, and maybe a couple cables.
I'd begin with cleaning, checking water (distilled), a good charge, and load test to see where you stand. Any good battery dealer will do the load test free and show you the result as he does it.
I've also seen them "rebuilt", but you never know how good that will work if the plates are too badly eaten.
 
The other possibility is that there is nothing wrong with the batteries, the charging system has failed and is not charging them.

Do you have a digital voltmeter?

Once you jump start the bus, put the meter on the batteries and you should see a reading of 13 to 14 volts. If you're getting the same reading from the batteries with or without the engine running, then the charging system is definitely not charging.

Regards
John
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
The other possibility is that there is nothing wrong with the batteries, the charging system has failed and is not charging them.

Do you have a digital voltmeter?

Once you jump start the bus, put the meter on the batteries and you should see a reading of 13 to 14 volts. If you're getting the same reading from the batteries with or without the engine running, then the charging system is definitely not charging.

Regards
John

That was my other thought. Make sure batteries are topped off, and all connections are clean and in good shape first tho.
 
OK guys ... I will clean the posts, check the water level. But since the bus runs just fine, the alternator must be charging just fine.
 
Hi, It's a diesel, doesn't need electricity for a spark, probably run fine without a battery?
 
signman said:
Hi, It's a diesel, doesn't need electricity for a spark, probably run fine without a battery?

And my ignorance rears it's ugly head LOL. OK, will check it with a meter as well.
 
Not definitive by any means, but check out this thread on a boating forum. One claims that a single group 31 battery is enough as a starting battery for the TA version of that engine.

http://forums.boatingworld.com/newforum/messages.aspx?TopicID=8858

Now one thing to consider too is that not All 8d batteries are suitable for both starting AND deep cycling. If you wind up getting 2 8d starting batteries and cycle them, well you will not be happy with how long they last, and how quickly they need replacement. Then you would likely go through the effort you should go through now instead.

Get a Starting battery Sufficient for cranking that monster diesel,

And rewire your house loads to a separate deep cycle battery/battery bank, like a pair of golf cart batteries, or 4 of them, as these are the most tolerant of deep discharges as well as being the most capacity for the dollar available.

You seem to be flustered as the previous owner decided to just use all the batteries for both purposes and think you are stuck doing the same thing.

You are Not, and spending more now to have someone help you isolate the batteries, one for engine, one for house, and doing this properly will likely save you money in the long run, if being a little more expensive in the immediate failure.

This can be a prime example of where trying to save money costs more in the long run.

I applaud you for doing some research on this, but you are limiting your options by saying you cannot have two dedicated sets of batteries for separate purposes.

You can get 4 golf cart batteries for ~ 350$. you can get a 1000 CCA group 31 starting battery( not sure this is enough) for 120. Add another 100 Dollars for a battery switch and more cabling, and you will come out ahead in a year, and not have to worry about being able to start the engine as there will be a dedicated battery just for that.

Not worrying about being able to start the engine when needed is worth the extra expense of doing this right, the first time.
 
SternWake said:
Not definitive by any means, but check out this thread on a boating forum. One claims that a single group 31 battery is enough as a starting battery for the TA version of that engine.

http://forums.boatingworld.com/newforum/messages.aspx?TopicID=8858

Now one thing to consider too is that not All 8d batteries are suitable for both starting AND deep cycling. If you wind up getting 2 8d starting batteries and cycle them, well you will not be happy with how long they last, and how quickly they need replacement. Then you would likely go through the effort you should go through now instead.

Get a Starting battery Sufficient for cranking that monster diesel,

And rewire your house loads to a separate deep cycle battery/battery bank, like a pair of golf cart batteries, or 4 of them, as these are the most tolerant of deep discharges as well as being the most capacity for the dollar available.

You seem to be flustered as the previous owner decided to just use all the batteries for both purposes and think you are stuck doing the same thing.

You are Not, and spending more now to have someone help you isolate the batteries, one for engine, one for house, and doing this properly will likely save you money in the long run, if being a little more expensive in the immediate failure.

This can be a prime example of where trying to save money costs more in the long run.

I applaud you for doing some research on this, but you are limiting your options by saying you cannot have two dedicated sets of batteries for separate purposes.

You can get 4 golf cart batteries for ~ 350$. you can get a 1000 CCA group 31 starting battery( not sure this is enough) for 120. Add another 100 Dollars for a battery switch and more cabling, and you will come out ahead in a year, and not have to worry about being able to start the engine as there will be a dedicated battery just for that.

Not worrying about being able to start the engine when needed is worth the extra expense of doing this right, the first time.



Hi Sternwake .... This is awesome information and advice ! I really appreciate it. I am going to do exactly as you say, with a couple of exceptions. I think I will go ahead and buy an 8D for starting purposes, as it is not very much more money and will get me 1400 CCA instead. I would love to know where I can get 4 golf cart batteries for just $350 though. The least I can find them is $119 a piece for batteries with 220 hours of reserve capacity at 20 amps. Oh yeah ... So if I isolate the two battery banks, then I assume I am not supposed to use the alternator at all to charge the house batteries ?
 
I thought Sam's club and Costco sold GC batteries in the ~85$ range. Not quite the same quality as trojan t 105s, but many on other RV based forums claim excellent cycle life from them.

I cannot fit the taller GC Batteries so never really researched their prices nor considered them for my personal usage.

The 8d for a starting battery can't hurt. If your engine has difficulty starting then It can help.

There are MANY ways to have isolated house batteries that are recharged by the alternator.

I use a manual switch. Battery 1 is the engine battery, battery 2 is the house bank, turn switch to Both to charge house bank. turn switch back to 1 to isolate the hose from the engine batteries. Hook all house loads to the house battery, or even the house battery stud on the battery switch itself as I do.

There are 3 studs on the back of the battery switch. One for the engine battery, one for the house, and one for the ignition circuit. All you need to do is get adequate cabling( Fatter and shorter is better). Hook the ignition stud to the (+) battery post clamp which you took off the engine battery and wrap it tight with electrical tape. All grounds are connected to the chassis and battery(-)s no isolation needed for grounds. One should never turn the switch to OFF with engine running. many/most battery switches have alternator field disconnect studs on the switch that disconnects the field wires when the switch is turned to off, to prevent an alternator load dump situation which can fru the alternator. Mine has this feature. i did not reroute the alternator field wires to run through the switch, I just make sure I do not switch it to off with the engine running. I do switch it from battery one to both with the engine running, or from both to 1 or 2, but never OFF.

http://www.wholesalemarine.com/perk...systems.html?gclid=CM2l8eHpjbsCFeN_QgodVnYAKw

It is pretty simple to do, once you have done it. I know it can be flustering considering it when having no experience doing it. I was there, and after having help i was like OH, I'm an idiot, that was so easy!

The thing is that while GC batteries are not designed for HIgh CCA ratings, 4 of them will likely have about 1500 CCA. Put the switch on both for engine starting, and even depleted GC batteries can provide a significant boost in overall CCA rating, and the engine battery need not be 1500 CCA on its own.

Also Some AGM batteries like the Odyssey group 31 has 1150 CCA. I have a New group 27 Northstar AGM with 930 CCA as my engine battery. I took it down to 30% the other day, and It had No issues cranking my engine.

Some AGM batteries like Northstar and Odyssey/Sears Diehard platinum are capable of deep cycling, AND, have tremendous CCA ratings. These batteries when cycled NEED high recharging rates though, and if not provided high Bulk recharging current and held at 14.7 for 4 hours, will not live upto their claimed cycle life of 400 cycles to 80% depth of discharge. If you cannot meet these recharge requirements and plan to cycle them deeply, do not consider these batteries. If not cycled below 95%, then they are excellent starting batteries that retain more of their CCA when cold.

Don't be afraid to get 6 GC batteries, and a smaller engine starting battery. The GC batteries will NOT be damaged by being asked to assist engine starting as many claim, they are just not designed nor optimised for this task. They are all about recovering their full capacity after deep discharges, time and again, as long as they are recharged promptly and fully. Still, they are the most tolerant of undercharging, and the best bang for the buck. Period. The drawbacks are if one 6v fails with a shorted cell, and you only have 2, well then you have no house battery. Many 12 volt battery promoters claim this as among the reasons to not go with 6 volts batteries. There are actually very few reports of GC batteries failing with a shorted cell requiring one to cancel their trip and go acquire a new pair.

Also 12 volt batteries can retain higher voltages during high inverter loads like running a microwave, compared to their 6v GC counterparts. but for cycle life and bang for the buck, you cannot beat flooded Golf cart 6 volt batteries.

It is Flooded starting batteries which are never intended for cyclic applications and will be damaged by doing so.
 
Wow .... I think I will need to re-read this in the morning LOL. But I can tell you this much ... I WILL be buying 4 GC batteries at first, then add two more when I can. As far as the charger, I plan on using the Iota 45 or Iota 90 amp that YOU recommended a few months back. :D

I love the idea of the switch that allows me to use both battery banks at once. This seems like a perfect solution. As far as the Odyssey battery, they are considerably more expensive than a single 8D, so I am not sure if that is a good idea for me.

As far as an AGM battery ... Do i really need one of those as a starting battery, instead of say this non AGM battery : http://www.interstatebatteries.com/...Battery+replacement++for+various+8DMHD+models

Beacuse the Odyssey batteries are $300 for a 900 CCA !
 
No, you certainly don't need to have an AGM starting battery. I was merely relating that some AGM batteries are highly capable of very large CCA numbers, but also resilient when deeply cycled, and "properly" recharged. these AGMs are more efficient in that they need about 105% of the energy returned into them to reach full charge where the best flooded batteries fall into the 115% and above range to reach full charge.

Deciding whether this AGM is worthwhile is a personal decision, and should only be attempted if the cycler can meet the minimum charging current recommendations in a cyclic application, which in the case of an Odyssey, is rather extreme especially compared to a similar footprint flooded battery.

Many out there want the "best" and buy the most expensive product available, yet expect price and quality to make up for improper treatment.


So the 8d you linked to claims 1400 CCA for 132 LBS. A bunch of HD claims and "commercial" marketing but no mention of handling deep cycle applications. No reserve capacity rating, no amp hour rating.

The Sears Diehard Platinum is no different than a Odyssey, except for case color. I had an extensive conversation with an Odyssey technician about 10 days ago and he related this this, as I suspected otherwise due to slight differences in weight and CCA claims on different sites.

A group 31 Sears Die hard platinum has 1150 CCA, 100 A/H and cost ~268$ frequently they have specials knocking down the price somewhat.

Did you notice how that Interstate makes no mention of capacity? Neither reserve capacity or Amp hours?

That pretty much places it firmly in the starting battery category. Also, while Interstate is a well known battery brand, they actually manufacture no battery. They are a battery marketer and choose many different manufacturers to throw their label on and mark up the price. Stickers in the battery world are worth 100x their weight in gold, to those crusty greedy guys at top that want to buy their trophy mistress another diamond which she feels entitled to.

So with the 8d compared to the Odyssey, you get 250 more CCA and you have a 280$$ 132 LB starting battery which can be cycled down to 20% state of charge, and successfully recharged, perhaps a dozen times before it starts noticeably losing ability to crank that big diesel, and once you notice it, the end is not far off.

Or you can spend 268$ on a 1150 CCA AGM which claims 100 amp hours, and 400 cycles to 20% state of charge, WHEN PROPERLY RECHARGED at those high currents I mentioned above.

Sure 1150 is not 1400.

But one battery can be cycled successfully and weighs 50 less Lbs than the other for more or less the same price, and get this part, never needs maintenance. No terminal corrosion, no needing to check water levels or carry around distilled water to do so. And if accidentally drained, can be restored to full capacity if recharged properly, the other, loses a portion of capacity forever and a portion of its lifespan.

The key is the ability to properly recharge. Can the alternator meet it? can your other charging sources Meet it? How difficult is it going to be to move the charging sources from house battery to Engine battery as it is better if they are not charged together, and also better if they are Not discharged in parallel.

There is no right answer here, Information is key, and making decisions on having the correct info is paramount.

If the engine battery is to ever be cycled, intentionally or not, I recommend a battery which can handle being cycled. If you are not sure ALL house loads are wired ONLY to the house battery bank, well you either make sure they are, or you get a battery which is not going to lose 10% of its lifespan and capacity every time it is slowly drawn down to 50%, or less, and left there for a few days.

Note 2 group 24 marine Flooded batteries in parallel will also approach 1400 CCA, and be significantly more tolerant of deeper cycles than a pure starting battery for well under 280$$

I participated in the Iota Discussion a few months back. I am still researching converters myself. trying to meet some middle ground to best meet the manufacturer recommended recharging profile of both battery types.

Try finding out the recommended recharging profile of batteries Interstate sells. Your enquiry will have you passed around to everybody until they find the best most convincing BS artist to deal with you.

I'm leaning toward a 30 to 40 amp version of the Iota, or Powermax at this point, subject to change before I click "place order" on any item

I recently had to replace all my batteries. I actually lowered my house bank battery capacity not because it was cheaper, but to better be able to meet the minimum bulk current manufacturer recommendations via my main recharging source, which is 198 watts of solar.

I was originally shopping for AGM, because I have been guilty of not adding water in time to the Flooded batteries. After My talk with the Odyssey tech, I realized it was foolish of me to to buy their batteries for recharging mainly by Solar.

But by this time I was so into the Idea of a bragging rights AGM, I had to get one.

Now I have a 280$ AGM battery in my engine compartment which I have high confidence in. I Should have gotten the Sears DHP/Odyssey group 31 for the same coin and another 180 CCA and 10 A/h, but oh Well. Find foot aim shoot.

I know I can cycle it without fear, I know I can meet its minimum charging requirements, and I expect to get good service from it for many years. But if I had three of them, no way. It would truly be a waste of money as I could never feed them with 120 amps until they reached 14.7, then hold 14.7 for 4 hours.

Honestly A good quality flooded marine battery could do the same thing with a few less CCA for half the price or less, and unless I cycled it, would have been the better choice.

For my house 'Bank' I have a single group 31 US battery, a standard Flooded Deep Cycle battery rated at 130 amp hours and I think about 600 CCA

My previous house bank was 2 group 27's for a total of 230 Amp hours. I found I never drained them more than 75 Amp hours from full, unless I was deliberately trying to do so.

So basically I was carrying around a 62 LB paperweight. With these two batteries and their 12 to 18% (of 20 hr A/h capacity) recommended recharging rate, my solar proved woefully inadequate, and my cycle life was not even half of what I expected to achieve.

My New '31 wants a 10% capacity recharge rate. My 200 watts of solar can technically meet this, in summertime when my fridge compressor is not running and my fans are off

Only Time will tell, but if I get more than 14 months out of this battery, well then I am ahead on return on investment compared to the previous 2 sets of group '27's.

If you are getting a new house bank of 4+ GC's to put in series/parallel, it is much wiser to get them all at the same time. Basically adding new batteries to older batteries quickly brings the new batteries down to the capacity of the older ones.

I mentioned I have an AGM and a flooded battery. I can discharge these in parallel, but know I should not. I can charge them in parallel, but they have significantly different charging requirements, not so much in charging voltages, but in initial current. The AGM having much less resistance will have a tendency to reedily suck up most of the current I would attempt to feed both batteries. Thankfully the voltages my vehicles regulator allows are within the parameters of both batteries, for the most part.

I just have to make sure to use the manual switch to keep them separate, and I might be adding another switch to easily switch house loads from one battery to the other, while I charge the other battery.

Too freaking complicated really.

My AGM has a fully charged resting voltage or 13, and much lower resistance. The Flooded battery has a fully charged resting voltage of ~ 12.75v. If I kept them in parallel, the agm would feed current to the flooded until it was discharged to 12.75v or so.


If you need 690 A/h of GC batteries, buy them all at once same brand, make,manufactirer and try to make sure they are all from the same batch with the same date code. Use thick interconnecting cables to wire them in series/parallel.
I do not believe you need 1400 CCA for a starting battery.

Pick a strategy for the starting battery. If a pure starting battery, then plan on never discharging it except when actually cranking the starter.

If a marine battery, then it will be slightly more tolerant of discharging, but it will also have a slightly lower CCA rating than a pure starting battery

2 GC in series batteries likely have no less than 900 CCA and are very tolerant of deeper discharges. No they are not designed as a starting battery, but guess what? together they weigh the same an 8d.

If all the batteries are the same type, make model age manufacturer, then there is no worries if they are left to charge or discharge in parallel, and as long as one does not drain them all completely dead, a larger bank of deep cycles will still likely have more then enough CCA to crank up a Big diesel motor

. I no longer have that luxury and have to pay more attention to the position my battery switch than before.

Many choices you have. I do not think the 1400 CCA 8d battery is the best choice. It was a compromise by the previous owner of your bus which you do not need to continue. It was the hope that huge capacity was always gonna be a successful strategy in being able to restart the engine.

A dedicated starting battery and a dedicated house battery is more complicated, but increases the chances of engine starting many many fold.

A dedicated bank allows you to concentrate the batteries design for the task they are being asked to do. A big enough starting battery to always crank the engine, and a big enough house bank to provide excellent deep cycle service life in such an application.

Everything is a compromise. It is all about where to place the line for your needs.

Knowing your needs beforehand helps greatly. Most Newbies to living on Battery power alone significantly overestimate how much capacity they have, how much their recharging sources return, and underestimate how much they are drawing from the battery, and wind up freaking out when their batteries
" no longer hold a charge"

The enlightening accurate tools which enlighten one in these matters are too expensive for most to bother with, just know a simple voltmeter is not that tool. Not for a battery which has been charged or discharged within the last 8 hours. But after monitoring the battery for a year while you discharge it time and again and knowing you are at least getting very close to a full recharge in between recharges, then that same voltmeter becomes much more valid.
 
Aww hell SternWake .... You are WAY, WAY, WAY deep for my limited knowledge.

And I am starting to worry now LOL. There are SO many people, with SO many different opinions. And I just do not have enough knowledge to know who is right, and who is wrong. Or which option is the better way. So I am about to do something somewhat spooky, but I feel comfortable making this choice ... I am going to simply make a choice of whom to trust and take advice from ... and not because I feel you know the most, or are the ultimate authority, but because you care enough to take LOTS of time to type so much valuable and helpful information, I am choosing you SternWake, on the electrical advice.

Sooo ... I will extend my budget slightly, and go ahead and buy the Sears battery you speak of, and the GC batteries.

But hey ... I may as well break my silence here, and just admit it : I DO NOT know anything about charging, maintaining, checking, cycling, etc, etc, etc .... And I am just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO very lost reading most of what you are sharing with me. So I guess I will proceed this way : I will post a list of everything I am planning to do in our bus electrically, and pray for your kind advice, and simply buy what you suggest, and set it up the way you suggest. I understand I will have to learn everything for my own knowledge. But until I do, I simply must simplify things as much as possible, and this is the only way I think I can do things at this time.
 
A lot of us have muddled thru the battery issue, You have to figure out your needs and balance that with budget. Then, its all about living within your means and making improvements accordingly.
Begin with a basic system, learn and build from there.

Everyone makes mistakes, but from them we learn.
 
I'm honored and flattered, but, That is throwing a lot of responsibility on me. I was hoping to present you with the info to make the best decisions for yourself. I have a tendency to make things more complicated than they need be when attempting to explain things. Do not forget this.

While I think the Sears DHP group 31/Odyssey is one of the best batteries available, I can't say for sure it is the right battery for your engine, and what your vehicle's charging system can put out. If you draw this battery down deeply, it needs to be recharged at a high rate. If your charging system cannot meet this high rate, then the battery will not perform as it would otherwise, and a lesser, less expensive battery would be a better choice. How can we know whether your Vehicle meets this high rate? We can't as you do not have the tools to measure it, or the knowledge to use them if you did, among some other factors.

Also the manual switch for battery isolation is not idiot proof. If one forgets to turn the switch after shutting down the engine, then one can draw down the engine battery. If one turns the switch to off instead of Both with the engine running, one can fry their alternator. There are other methods to isolate engine batteries from house loads that are automatic, and Idiot proof such as a Blue seas ACR.
http://www.bluesea.com/resources/1366.

One can also use a simple continuous duty solenoid triggered by another circuit that is live only with the engine running. It connects the batteries with the engine running, separates them when off.

There are other methods and products to accomplish essentially the same thing, all with benefits and detractions. I use a manual switch. It does not mean it is the best way, just that it works for me and I am careful with the responsibility.

What is most important is to develop the basic understanding so you can accomplish installing these things yourself. Solenoids fail. Would you know how to use a digital multimeter to diagnose? or just throw your hands up in the air, declare yourself worthless in such matters and hire someone to figure out what is not right somewhere. Hard to learn by words on a computer screen too. Hands on is the better way. Getting a 3$ centech digital mulitmeter and placing the probes all over the battery terminals and other wires measuring voltage can give you a better understanding of your system than anything I can guess at or try to relate to you from here.

Living from battery power can be a bit complicated, and beginners usually destroy batteries by over discharging and insufficient recharging, and even me, as long as I have been living on 12 volts, make mistakes more than I care to admit, and I am still learning. I brought up the sears DHP group 31 more as a contrast to the 8d battery you were shopping for. I think you could go get two group 24 marine batteries from wal mart and place them in parallel in one of your current battery trays for half the coin and most likely still have more than enough CCA to start that cat diesel. These won't be as difficult to replace when you almost inevitably kill them by running them too low and not recharging them properly

A couple things to take away from this, is that golf cart batteries are the best bang for the buck for house electrical duties. The most resilient to overdischarge, but not immune to it. The most tolerant of improper recharge, but not immune to it.

The engine starting battery needs to meet some CCA number which it seems there is no definitive answer to online, that we have been able to find anyway. I am guessing that 1150 CCA is more than enough, as 1150 CCA is a LOT. I think a definitive recommendation by somebody with experience with your specific engine is the best course of action. Just because you have 2 8d's which appear to both be starting batteries does not mean the engine requires 2 of them for that task. You do not even know if both are indeed in parallel or if one is for the house and one for the engine. A simple check with a voltmeter on both battery terminals, engine running would determine so.

if you can successfully remove all House loads, but the engine starter from the engine battery, then you can just get a Starting battery, which are generally much cheaper than marine batteries or true deep cycle batteries.

I am assuming the previous owner or your vehicle just decided to stuff as much battery as possible into the engine compartment and not worry about battery isolation. perhaps the previous owner just had some halfwit Bubba tell him this was the best way, and here look I just happen to have these 8d batteries sitting in the corner unused and barely ever used I'll give you a special deal on them.

Please don't just ask me to tell you how to spend your money. If I were there to inspect the system in person I'd present you with many different options, on what we can reuse, and possibly retask and what simple needs to be redone completely to best achieve your goals. I can't really do that over a computer screen, and you don't have the tools or knowledge to present me with what I need to present you with your best options.

Also do not rely on just my word. For example i do not currently have a Converter such as an Iota. Would you take my recommendation that they are a good charger/comverter/DC power source compared to the person who has been using one for years and has less than a stellar experience with one?


All I can do from here is list pitfalls to try and avoid, and the biggest one is finding some quasi Guru on the internet to tell you how to spend your money. Especially when one of the products is an expensive female dog if mistreated, like the Sears DHP battery.

I've had a lot of work recently and the only reason I've been this wordy on this thread/topic is because of the holidays and I decided I needed some time away from my powertools and petulant kids screaming at their mother in the background. I have so much work that I will not be able to devote as much time to further responses nor be necessarily be able to respond in a timely manner.

Things you should research to help yourself is how to solder wires, how to crimp wires, or find somebody who can do both whom you can develop a relationship with.

Copper and Lead are expensive, and you are getting ready to expend large amounts of money to acquire both.

If you are not going to be putting batteries into use immediately, then don't buy them just to have them, wait until you are ready to put them into use, as they have shelf lives.
 

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