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Gunny

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Today the Eagle flew over and dropped my retirement off so I bought 2 DURACELL BATTERIES FROM Batteries plus , 90 dollars each with an 18 dollar core charge she said she would waive. So the solar begins . 

With the help of Jim in Denver I should be making electricity soon.

Rob
 
Excellent solid foundation, great value purchase. Any indication that they are indeed East Penn / Deka?
 
I just bought it, now I need to read how to use it. Thanks Sternwake

rob
 
Gunny said:
I just bought it, now I need to read how to use it. Thanks Sternwake

rob

Wear eye protection.
Wear old clothes that you don't care if they get holes in.
Have a small container at hand to put the end of the hydrometer tip in.  It can dribble a little, and it is sulfuric acid.
Have a damp rag or paper towels handy.
Have baking soda available for spills, but make sure you NEVER get any in the battery!
Wear eye protection.

It takes a few tries to get the hang of it.

 -- Spiff
 
The Hydrometer and a supposedly failsafe watering device arrived yesterday as did the charger Sternwake recommended. I bought it from Stephen, one of our members, arrived in perfect shape. Thanks Stephen.

Now if I knew how to use all this stuff... Jimindenver will have to be a patient man.

Rob
 
Hey Gunnie, what charger make an model did you get?
I'm looking at several from those recommended here.

I would like to narrow it down...

Also, can you say why you choose the one you did?
 
Gunny said:

A couple points of clarification.

The product linked above is the PD9245, but it is the -14.8 model.

This means the absorption voltage, is 14.8 volts, instead of 14.4v as the models on Amazon will have.

As far as I know, Only 'bestconverter' sells this -14.8v model.

The higher absorption voltage models will charge the batteries faster, and if one is running the charger from a generator, will get the batteries to a higher state of charge in the time the generator is allowed to run.

Also Battery manufacturers like Trojan, recommend a 14.8v absorption voltage.

Does this mean that a 14.4v absorption voltage will kill the batteries prematurely?  No, it means they will charge slower, and IF one is not fully recharging fully after each and every discharge cycle, the batteries will sulfate a bit quicker at 14.4 than they would at 14.8v.

Partial state of charge cycling is hard on any battery, and the higher absorption voltage helps reduce the capacity loss from doing it.

Also as batteries age the higher voltage is better to overcome the increasing battery resistance to accept the charging current.

One othe point I must make I recommend this converter, not because I think it is an Awesome product that has no flaws, but because it is one of the best options available.

With the remote/wizard/pendant, one can push a button and force the charger back to seeking absorption voltage. This is important when the alternator or solar already has the depleted batteries above 12.8v.  Other charging sources might see this voltage, think the batteries are full, and then Aim for only 13.8v, or 13.2v.  If the batteries are depleted they can accept a lot of amperage when the charging source is seeking high voltage of 14.4+.  but when depleted and the charging source seeks only 13.6v, then ~1/3 the amps will flow, which of course greatly slows charging.

The PD allows the user to press a button and force the converter to seek 14.4 or 14.8 volts and it will hold it for 4 hours.

This feature is why I recommend the PD converters, as there is some level of user control. 

PD converters are said to not meet and hold their amperage ratings on generator power.

I had a PD9245(14.4v model)  in my possession for a while for a powerpack project for a friend.  Its Absorption voltage was actually 14.56v.  Its maximum amperage when first plugged in, with thick DC cabling to the battery was 47 amps, but this did then lower to about 41 amps.  It appears related to heating, and the current is rolled back to prevent excessive heating.  I did not experiment with adding more airflow/cooling to see if it would hold 45 amps the whole time upto 14.56v.

The loss of almost 5 amps of the 45 is hardly the best, but the fact it will seek and hold 14.4v for 4 hours is better than other converters( in my opinion) that have other charge profiles/algorithms. 

At the end of 4 hours, if one were to dip their hydrometer, and find it still well short of 1.275+ then one can simply press the button for another 4 hours at 14.4v.  If one hour later all the cells did indeed reach 1.275+, one could then and hold the button and then force the charger to hold only 13.6v, or press and hold for a bit longer and force it to hold only 13.2v.

One despicible thing about PD converters is their use of the term 'Equalization', and marketing is as a 4th stage of charging.  What they do, is after 16 or 18 hours, perhaps it is 21 when holding 13.2v, it will bump voltage back upto 14.4v for 15 minutes.  This causes gassing, it mixes up the electrolyte in the cells and prevents the acid from stratifying and the denser electtolyte from sinking to the bottom of the cells and eating the plates ata faster rate.  This is Destratification, Not Equalization.

Equalization charging is a forced overcharge to as high as 16.2 volts, and cannot be accomplished at 14.4v

This bastardization of the term Equalization is contemptible in my opinion, and I would usually rage at any manufacturer so intentionally misleading or simply ignorant.  But until a better option is presented, I will keep to my opinion that the PD series of converters is one of the best options available for a person who is not always plugged into the grid, one who actually deeply cycles their batteries, and knows and desires to return them to a true full state of charge in minimal time, and wants the option of overriding "automatic' with  manual control.

The PD converters have a large finned heatsink on one side and a 80 or 92MM computer fan whose flow is divided, half to flow within the unit and half to flow across the external fins.  Users should make sure this fan flow is not restricted, or that the compartment in which the converter is installed, is not closed off, as cool electronics are happy electronics.

The fan speed is variable depending on the heat the converter is making, which is directly related to how much amperage it is producing to attain or maintain a voltage setpoint.  I found this fan on the unit I briefly had, would Whine annoyingly at lower speeds in a quiet environment, but my ears seem to pick up on these frequencies more than others, but the converter's location should be chosen with ventilation and this possibly annoying whining in mind.  but also the location should consider the distance to the batteries, so one does not have to use super thick heavy expensive cables to minimize voltage drop  to distant batteries.

Often rv manufacturers seemed to put the batteries and power distribution station very far apart from each other, then run undersized wiring to the batteries.  Avoid this or rectify this.  It might be OK when one is not deeply cycling their batteries, but when one does, this is a horrible recipe for premature battery destruction.
 
Looks good to me!

I'm guessing that the requirements of the battery's boost (either 14.7 or 13.6) will decide weather you need the 9200 or the 9200 - 14.8 series right?

I think I will get it from them and not Amazon, because of the 3 yr warranty and they include the wizard with it!

Thank you so much!
 
Dan'l,

We were typing at same time. post#10 on previous page has more info.

In almost all cases, with flooded batteries, i would recommend the 14.8v model instead of the 14.4v.

The exceptions would be those who do not deeply cycle their batteries often, or thoise who are always in very hot envirnoments and whose batteries are not well ventilated.

I would not use the -14.8v model on many AGM batteries, like Lifeline who want a 14.4v absorption voltage.

AGMs manufacturers have pretty wide Absorption voltage recommendations though, and the batteriesa are far more tolerant of higher than recommended voltages that internet wisdom often proclaims.

Absorption voltage recommendations always assume a battery temperature of 77F. Higher temps require lower voltages, lower temps require highervoltages, Ideally. As battery temperature is almost never precisely 77F, one can effectively do a shoulder shrug or ostrich head dip into the sand at slightly off absorption voltages.
Just keep in mind charging depleted batteries with high amperage at high ambient temperatures is where the possible danger lies.

Such a situation is again why I like the PD's manual voltage control. Very few RV comverters come with battery temperature sensors/ compensation. Most plug in chargers with this feature tend to be in the 500$+ range.

The truly automatic perfect battery charger for every battery at every battery temperature does not exist, and coming close requires $,$$$.$$ and the ability to set it up properly, and adjust it as the batteries age.

Everything is a compromise. I think the PD series of converters are one of the better compromises for those who deeply cycle batteries regularly and want to get their moneys worth from them.
 
AbuelaLoca said:
Congrats on taking the next step, Gunny!! I'm excited for you!!
I watch for your comments. You are always so positive and complimentary. I know the stars will line up and you will find your 'perfect' ride, whatever it may be.


Thanks, Rob
 
A word of caution:  when I set up my system with a 14.8V absorption (2 Energizer GC2) I had to replenish the water every week, to the tune of ~200 ml. per battery.  I am now down to 14.4V and top up about once a month with <100 ml.  Just a heads-up to watch your batteries closely for the first month or two until you get a feel for how they are responding.

 -- Spiff
 
Or find out what the exact min/max voltage recommendation actually is for your battery, from the manufacturer.

Or buy the battery matches your charger, or best of all get a charger you can adjust the setpoints.

For some more expensive batteries, just a fraction of a volt can make a big difference in longevity.
 
When the electrical system starts getting too complicated for my simple mind it gets a bit discouraging. I came into this game at a late date and while I am not ignorant of the need to check the water, etc. I am not at all familiar with the setpoints and all involved in running a system. I don't want to fry these things, I hope to get a couple of years use out of them, if I do I will have gotten my moneys worth.

I've gotten a lot of knowledge from Jimindenver, Sternwake and several others and I thank you for taking the time to help.

Rob
 
So, to sum up...
If I end up with gc2's I'll get the 14.8 version. ( Most likely the way that I will go!)
But, if my ship comes in and I end up with AGM's go with the 14.4 version.

Is that about right?

I will buy from the web link, and not a zon...

Thank you all for all of the information provided in this and other threads. 
My path is clear now!

Thank you, Thank you!!!
 
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