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Goshawk said:
It's the calories too. I have lots of fruit and it still spikes the sugar.

Can someone explain the symptoms of pre diabetics ?  Hurt - bruised my thigh during a move and the bruise is still there after two weeks.

From the Mayo Clinic website:
Many people never get any symptoms. Others experience whole body symptoms like excessive hunger, thirst, urination,fatigue, weight gain etc.

I am not a doctor but can only compare your situation to mine. I am going to suggest that you consider seeing a doctor and getting a blood sugar test at their office. In your case, it is possible the sugar is of concern and the best way to really know for sure is through your health professional.

I had 4 of the 5 symptoms listed above and am really thankful that my doctor did the talking and I did the listening last April :)
 
HarmonicaBruce said:
I'm still off sugar, haven't noticed any weight loss yet, but its been 2 weeks with no sugar.
Stay off it if at all possible. But it really is in almost everything you see in a box in the market. The main thing I want to avoid is the high fructose corn syrup that is everywhere.

It's hard to do sometimes. Some people suffer real withdrawal symptoms. I have read that in some cases it is like getting off a drug addiction.

I'm not totally off it even now. For example, my cup of hot coffee has nondairy creamer and honey in it. I love the taste of honey and it is isn't the same as eating the refined sugar and has a different effect on the body.

And yes, at the buffets, I confess to still eating a couple of desserts sometimes.

But the Powerades and Coca Colas that I loved, the chocolate cherrys, the Honey Buns, pan dulces- stuff that I loved and ate to excess daily are part of my past and I really don't miss them.

Well, maybe a little.
 
HarmonicaBruce said:
I've stopped sugar as of yesterday.
It's been about 6 weeks now since I've stopped eating sugar.  I also quit all desserts, sodas, and I've switched to lite beer.  Also no pancake syrup (thus no pancakes), jelly, chocolate, or anything that would generally be stupid to eat.  I've lost about 5 pounds.  I'm pretty happy about it so far.  I've really made a very modest change and it's having positive effects.  

I figure I'll have to give up something.  If I keep getting fatter, I'll have to give up walking up stairs and riding a bike.  Or, I can give up jelly donuts.  It sucks not being able to eat cake, but to my way of thinking, it sucks more being fat.
 
Another month, and I'm down about 8 pounds altogether.  I eat all I want, just no sugar, deserts, soda and such.   I still have 30 or 40 pounds to go, but at this rate, I should get there in a year or two.
 
nice job bruce,keep it up,i lost about 35 in the last year doing the same and limiting bread,pretty much just sourdough now
 
Another month, and I'm down about 8 pounds altogether.  I eat all I want, just no sugar, deserts, soda and such.   I still have 30 or 40 pounds to go, but at this rate, I should get there in a year or two.
 
Glad to hear dropping the sugar helped. Another thing that would help is to ride an exercise bike where you swing your arms with the handlebars and pedal away with your legs. They are cheap on CL but don't really fit in a van ;-)

I bet if you added that riding to your routine 5 days a week and for 30 minutes at a time, you would drop even more pounds. And you could add a little bit of sugar back into your diet. And continue eating all you want until you feel full.

Just keep staying away from that high fructose sweetener as much as you can!

Folks, I realize that some will disagree with my advice given above so here is something you can look at, my journal over at a diet site which is chockfull of photos of huge meals I eat daily along with my weight, sometimes with pics of the scale at the daily morning weighin.

I can't figure out how to access this data from the opening screen for the site without joining, but here is my workaround to that. You will be able to view my complete daily journal there by going in this way.

Open up google search and in the search bar, just cut and paste the snippet below and press enter. Then just click on the first entry you see listed which is sonnymac-Member-Fatsecret, you will be sent to my public member details page, click on journal. Be prepared to get hungry once you see the pics of the meals that my girlfriend makes for me or the buffet pics from yesterday, including the desserts that I had. Yes, I have started adding sweets back and still kept my weight down. This am it was 171.6, yesterday 170.6, as long as it doesn't go over 175, I am not too concerned.

No obligation, you don't have to join or pay anything. Check it out.

Here is the search term, just cut and paste this into google.

site:fatsecret.com sonnymac
 
morongobill said:
Just keep staying away from that high fructose sweetener as much as you can!
"as much as you can" of course is total, there is absolutely no reason anyone can't stop eating sugar.
I read your diet blog.  Another thing I'll start with immediately:  NO GOLDEN CORRAL.  I've been to a few buffets since I started my "diet", but I realize they are not a good thing.  They encourage and enable over-eating.  You've done great, starting at 233 down to 170.  I haven't been getting much exercise and I know it would help a lot.
 
It's been over 8 months now since I stopped eating sugar.  I started at 206.  This past month I've been cheating some, not much, and I've been going to the gym about once a week, I'm up to 35 sit-ups.  And I'm at 189.  Still a long way to go.
 
For all of you taking your health seriously I say bravo!  I also extend a word of caution regarding doctors and give you my dad's and my example as informational reasons ONLY why most doctors cannot be completely trusted.  This is to throw caution your way and in hopes you consider all avenues for OPTIMUM health, not just what your doctor says because the truth is they don't know everything, didn't go to college for everything and most of them have never gotten more than the one week of nutritional study in their 8+ years of med school.  This may seem like I'm smacking on doctors but I'm not.  I want to be very clear about their limitations and I am purposely steering clear except this brief blip regarding doctors involved in research of some kind who get a kick back of some kind or donation to their research when they prescribe certain pharmaceuticals.

I developed arthritis at 42, something completely unexpected for me as I was fairly active and considered "healthy".  I wasn't obese but was chunky however my weight didn't get in the way of my activities including riding horses and other physical pursuits.  I smoked and socially imbibed in alcohol.  It should have been a wake up call as a few years later I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic and appeared I was developing a pre-cancerous condition.  That my mom and grandma(her mom) had cancer I was very concerned.  So concerned I did nothing about it except most of what my doctor told me; take it easy on my joints to prolong the damage, ibuprofen for pain and swelling, elevate my legs and wait.  I stopped going to the bar on the weekends on my own and didn't drink at home anyway.  I didn't quit smoking nor lose weight and nothing else happened, everything remained the same because that's what the tests told me.  This should have been my first lesson that I was maintaining being ill while silently getting worse, not getting better.

Jump forward 5 years I've quit smoking by then and I'm back at the doctor with incredible pain in my knees, cortizone shots didn't do anything and he's now prescribed me a ghastly amount of prednisone.  My teeth began to rot very fast, I gained an enormous amount of weight, my hair was falling out and I was not getting any better!  My circulation got so bad that from halfway down my calves to my ankles was turning black to the point of being told I may have to get my legs amputated.  Coincidentally my 17 year old cat was sick too and clumps of his coat were coming off his sides and the vet couldn't figure out why.

I jumped online to research why my cat was so sick and found out how bad dry kibble was for animals especially cats.  I transitioned him to raw and he got better right away(within 2 weeks right away), so much better that he started acting like he did when he was 5.  The light bulb went on.  If I was feeding my cat more species appropriate food especially as an obligate carnivore, what is species appropriate for me?

I won't get into the details but it involved a very high amount of produce, no meat, no sugar, no white flour products and especially NO dairy, and I weaned off prednisone.  Within 2 weeks I had NO PAIN unless I got down directly on my knees and even though I had become morbidly obese I could walk again without pain or feeling like a cripple.  I went back to that same doctor who bitched at me for stopping the prednisone and wanted to schedule me for surgery so I did the only smart thing I could think of:

I fired him.

Yep, I told him he didn't know a damn thing except how to drive a prescription pad and I walked out.  Eventually I found a woman doctor that was completely open to treating me nutritionally first.  In an amazing moment of luck I found a doctor who had come from a small village in Ghana so she grew up in an area that didn't have a doctor or medical facility.  When sick they'd see what we would call an herbalist and/or nutritionist and only the sickest went into the "big city".  I spent the next few years studying nutrition online, from books, film, anything.  While doing so I was getting better.  Not super obvious better but I could feel it inside.  My blood sugar dropped to normal and no unusual cancer screens.  I still felt exhausted a lot but this doctor reminded me that my body had undergone a decade of being damaged and it was probably going to take just as long to repair it.  It was tired too!  The blackness in my legs started to go away and I was no longer under the threat of amputation!

Then my dad called to tell me he had cancer again(#5!).  I moved across the country to take care of him.  While doing so I saw he was on a long list of prescriptions.  I asked him if he would consider another way.  These were most of his medical issues:

Prostrate cancer
Atrial fibrillation
Leaking heart valve
Stage 4 kidney disease
Deep vein thrombosis
High blood pressure
Anemia
Pre-diabetic
Acid reflux/Barrett's esophagus
Breathing issues/short of breath
Constant constipation
Diverticulitis
Sleep apnea/sleeping issues/restless legs
Leg swelling

He'd also had surgery for blood clots in his legs.  It was so bad they had to remove other veins to repair the damage to the arteries in his legs.  The scars went from his groin to his ankles.

I forgot to mention he was 80.  Most people sign off on our older people including doctors and this is absolutely the wrong thing to do!  I HAD to prove to my dad that even at 80 years old he could get better just as fast as I could.  This would be a hard sell considering he'd been under some of his doctors care(like his cardiologist) for at least a decade and here I come with no college education to speak of and tell him his doctors are WRONG!

It took some convincing but he finally agreed to be my guinea pig and I put him on a similar diet as I had been on with one exception: the prescription coumadin(warfarin).

This is one of the most evil drugs I have ever encountered.  Doctors prescribe it like candy and almost always for atrial fibrillation or "A-fib" to prevent clotting and strokes.  With my dad's history of blood clots, the a-fib and his leaky heart valve he was terrified(based on his doctors[yes plural] information) to get off of it.  What my dad was never told was that his skin would become so thin from long term use that it would peel up with the bandages he was taking off and that he was more susceptible to hemorrhaging for something as simple as knocking his arm into a wall, and both of those did happen.  They just told him about easier bruising and that the risks of not taking it were worse than if he didn't.  Essentially they scared him into taking it and he did for 17 years.

Anyway, I found the most practical and common sense advice out there.  Since A-fib is a stand alone issue and no one knows it's causes I ignored it as far as trying to come up with something to deal with it and instead attacked the coumadin in the best way I knew how; I fed my dad salads.  They say don't do that because of the issues with vitamin K but in my opinion if my dad was going in to the clinic weekly for blood draws so they could adjust it then they could adjust it for his salad eating too.  A month later he's in the emergency room for non-stop nose bleeding.  Ironically they claimed his blood was TOO THIN, cut his coumadin in half and told him to eat MORE salad!  I happily obliged.

About this time the light switched on for my dad as well.  He was breathing better and felt more energetic.  There were also some surprising and annoying "side effects" of his healing as well.  His almost lifelong battle with constipation was now entirely the opposite and not always at the most convenient of times so we cut his laxative usage in half.  After decades of stress and abuse his intestines and colon were starting to work again without the "help" of medications.  He wasn't too sure he was happy about this one until he was constipated again.

Now, please don't even assume for a second this was some kind of "miracle" cure or quackery.  It's neither.  I simply prepared the most nutritionally dense meals possible which provided the most helpful nutrients possible for my dad's body to use for healing and repair.  That's it.  It's not miracle science or anything of the kind.  It's just super smart nutrition.  Also during this, my dad was on Taxotere which is IV chemo.  While the rest of my dad's body was getting better his hair still fell out and while the cancer wasn't going away, the rate at which the cells were doubling had slowed down.  We also noticed something else; the indicators for kidney disease were changing and going down.

After 4 months of the diet and 3 months of chemo he got a kidney screening and his kidneys were working better!  She reduced him to stage 2 and he was removed from the dialysis "watch list" they had.  His regular doctor pulled him off all nutritional supplements, the blood pressure meds and and cut some others in half.  Again, ironically I was feeding him a vegan diet and he was no longer anemic so no more iron pills.

Then came the cardiologist, someone he had been seeing for 10 years but this time my dad had a new confidence when he went in.  After the exam I was called in because my dad wanted me to hear him tell the doctor that after the tests came back he expected to be seeing a reduction in medications.  He briefly described the diet I had him on which got the stink eye from the doctor.  Two weeks later I showed the doctor the books I had been using.  This was after he told my dad there were NO SIGNS of a leaky heart valve anymore and it was working at a proper pressure.  The cardiologist said, "Oh yeah, I've heard of them."  I just looked at him in shock and my dad said "Heard of them?  Why aren't you telling your patients about them?"  My dad no longer had to take statins and other heart medications and the doctor notated on his exit documentation "Congrats on the diet".  I kept that one.  We were going to frame it.

So, after 5 months of optimum nutritional intake and with the exceptions of the cancer and a-fib, and what was left of the kidney disease, everything else was either gone or was so trivial it wasn't considered an issue anymore.  All because of a plant based diet.  No pills, no medications, no medical procedures.  Just the right kind of nutritional intake so my dad's body could repair itself and function properly.

Everyone's body has different nutritional needs to function well.  Yeah, I've heard it all the time and said it myself, "But I feel FINE!".  Most people do until they get sick and you aren't any different.  I've learned the hard way that PREVENTION does a hell of a lot more good than going to a doctor.

Who knows your body better, you who's lived with it all your life or someone you see occasionally?  Unless you are next door neighbors that doctor has the unfortunate task of deciding what's wrong with you based on what YOU tell them or not and his limited information regarding your diet and his lack of nutritional education.

Optimal nutrition will ALWAYS be your first line of defense.  Almost every disease and illness we get is food borne in nature because we eat to satisfy urges and addictions(flavors and chemicals like sugar), not to supply our bodies with the nutrients they need for repair and to thrive.

Anyone going to be around me this winter will see me struggling with sugar addiction and I have a lot of weight to lose so I'll be walking with my dog a lot.  I'm kind of a loner but I don't turn down company.

You are your own best friend and worst enemy when it comes to food intake.  There is not one prescription out there that cures your illnesses.  They maintain them so they don't get worse and maybe alleviate some of the symptoms.  Who wants that?  I want to get better!

So what can you do to improve your lot with your doctor?  Get busy with learning about nutrition and defend yourself!  Most often they don't have a clue how badly poor nutrition affects us and almost everything you get sick from could have been prevented!

Gramma always told me you are what you eat.  Yes she really did.  Too bad I had to wait until I was threatened with getting appendages cut off and watching myself die a long, lonely miserable death before I believed her.

Sorry for the novel but this is something I'm incredibly passionate and now knowledgeable about.  It's also why I need a fridge and freezer.  I'm leaving behind life in a stick house so I can afford to take care of my "house".  Without it nothing else matters!
 
Congratulations Headache and I commend you for your perseverance!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
A-Fib...I've had it for years, I do the coumadin regimen and keep my INR between the.2 and .3 limits. The cardiologists pretty much left me alone, I was passing my physicals and working. I developed a small hernia in my navel. I was scheduled for day surgery to repair it and place a screen to reinforce it. With the VA you must pass inspection of sorts, each member of the operating team must approve you. The anesthesiologist who's accent was so bad someone who spoke his native language was brought in to tell me he would not operate with my heart out of rhythm. So I, in my ignorance, go to cardiology and chat with someone in cardio-version who had high expectations they could "shock" my heart back into rhythm....and it begins. 

First shock treatment I went back into normal rhythm and was given some meds to maintain it until my heart was "back in shape". It lasted a week. Back to afib. two more shocks with little success, they did reduce it to atrial flutter but that too only lasted 4 days. I finally saw the doctor in charge of cardio version, he was actually a 'loaner' from UT Southwestern Med School (where, as a proud Dad I must brag a bit) my youngest is enrolled. He had a plan of action; shock me, cauterize from the inside and outside of my heart and beat that mean ol' AFib. 

There is too much to this story waste everyones time, I will shorten it as best I can. They tried 7 (seven) times to shock me back into rhythm and it didn't work. Heavy 2nd or light 3rd degree burns from where the sticky paddle things were applied. This was done with a group of 'fellows' leading the way. They were told to shock me a max of three times. 

Not long after that fiasco I started to lose stamina, quickly. Heart Failure.

I went from a relatively healthy man to where I couldn't walk from my bedroom to the kitchen without stopping. I went to a private Cardiologist who bluntly told me they killed my heart with all those shocks at one time. 

I have a pacemaker now and feel okay but while they were putting the pacemaker in I went into respiratory arrest. I woke up (yay) with a tube stuck down my throat then another tube put in to my stomach administer the pills. 21 days in CICU. I left AMA on my birthday. And I filed a lawsuit. Yes you can indeed sue a government agency, just a few more papers to mess with. And I sued Southwestern Med Center and the Dr. by name.

All settled with a non disclosure clause with the exception of the Dr.. He and his insurance waited until the second day of testimony to offer a settlement. With him accepting no blame. I refused. I wanted him to admit on the stand he fucked up and I used those words in court while the panel was out. The following day he took the stand and admitted he did not monitor his "Fellows" and he was negligent. 

I am told I may not be able to withstand a change of pacemakers when the batteries in this one gets low. Last check this thing had 2 and a half years left. 

I have lost 20 pounds but I still eat sugar, still take coumadin daily but i try and live life to the fullest.  I hope no one thinks I am having a pity party here, I am not. Been close to croaking more than once and while I am in no hurry to die, I am not afraid. Kids are taken care of and life is good.

To all, Travel Safe.. Rob
 
Original poster here. I really am enjoying the thinking outside the box displayed here.
 
Read a book a few months ago that resonated with me, Mind Over Medicine by Lissa Rankin MD.  She talks about how the medical establishment is not in the business of healing us, but trying to fix a symptom.  Very good read, and the accompanying plan is something I'm ready to start working.
 
The medical and pharmaceutical industries (and never doubt they are for-profit industries) have no desire to cure illness. Ongoing TREATMENT is where the money is. Always look for the bottom line.
Been through the medical industry wringer for myself, and my Father and Mother. They are gone. Basically, they killed Mom. I am done with them. I will live and die on my own terms from now on.
 
Gunny said:
I have lost 20 pounds but I still eat sugar, still take coumadin daily but i try and live life to the fullest.  I hope no one thinks I am having a pity party here, I am not. Been close to croaking more than once and while I am in no hurry to die, I am not afraid. Kids are taken care of and life is good.

Gunny you have my deepest sympathy for how your body was destroyed by medical BS and my deepest respect because I'm assuming the "Gunny" means you were a Gunnery Sergeant.  I was unable to complete basic at P.I. due to medical issues.  It is my only personal regret.

Unfortunately the V.A. has been a difficult entity to deal with.  My dad couldn't take it anymore and I'm glad because you guys are getting subpar care.  Luckily once I took over my dad's care he didn't have to go there anymore.  It has become a horribly undignified institution for our veterans.  I'll have to break off with this now because it's one of the few issues I become vehemently steamed about.

If I may make a suggestion there is a book I recommend you read and as I mentioned above I'm not touting any miracle cures, magic pills nor medical quackery, just plain common sense.  In fact, I do believe that when you've read some of how simple and "common" it should be(but isn't) you may be stupefied.  I was so it's just a guess.  The book is called, "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease" by Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr.  You can probably find it at your local library.

That book is one of a few I used to create the diet I had my dad on.  I'm only recommending you read the first half I believe as the 2nd half is dietary and recipes but feel free to engage in those if you wish.  Why do I recommend this book after the damage to you has already been done?  Well for one doing some of it "may" prolong your life and what's left of your heart.  The other is I'm assuming you have family and maybe kids and grand kids.  When my dad realized how selfish he had been by eating so poorly and reducing the life he had left with us it was a really cruel blow to him.  Yes, he knew he would die someday but by shortening what was left of his life by eating that ham and drinking that milk, AND how miserable he felt because of the medical issues piling up, he realized he was cheating the rest of the family of our time with him.  It was the 1st time I saw him cry.

Anyway, also by reading it you could help your family head off issues that will develop by continued poor eating.

Corpsman up!  Damn goats...
 
Queen said:
Read a book a few months ago that resonated with me, Mind Over Medicine by Lissa Rankin MD.  She talks about how the medical establishment is not in the business of healing us, but trying to fix a symptom.  Very good read, and the accompanying plan is something I'm ready to start working.

I haven't read that book but anything that calls out the medical and pharma industries for putting profits over people is GOLD in my book!
 

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