Are you a wolf or an ant

[iamk]

Bob asked this question on Memorial day 2020.

I don’t have a YouTube account to participate in Bob’s video comments, so I wonder what you think?

I had to do the things Bob admonished before van life in order to save for my current life on the road.

[video=youtube]

 

[user 423]

^
Limited data here.

Can you give a CliffsNotes version?

 

[desert_sailing]

In my very early years at Uni.. we had to write a compare contrast paper. I chose to compare and contrast wolves and coyotes.

While they seem very similar they are very different in many ways. The most pertinent to this particular question is that wolves are indeed pack animals. They are very "tribal" which is of course how some folks live in this lifestyle. I think however the majority of us are coyotes.

Coyotes typically run in a much smaller group..usually just the mate and the lil ones( only until they are old enuff to leave). They do occasionally socialize together while out and about but they don't live in any pack/tribe. They roam a very random area that meanders, unlike wolves that have fairly strict boundaries that they claim and defend.

Of course a wolf tends to be perceived as a much more noble critter than a coyote( I guess). But very few of us are wolves.

Wolves howl btw while coyotes yodel. So the next time you get moon fever.. let us hear your yodel echo across the countryside!

 

[user 423]

Yodely Coyote. Has a ring to it.

 

[user 423]

I had to do the things Bob admonished before van life in order to save for my current life on the road.

Without all the ants where would all the vans,auto parts,highways and bridges, cool camping gadgets, internet infrastructure, laptops, batteries,solar panels and all the other wonderful things that make this lifestyle possible come from?

Sitting back and enjoying the fruits of labor done by others is not the coolest thing...

 

[DannyB1954]

Up till recently the idea of live on public land was attractive. Because of the pandemic many are finding they are getting the bums rush to leave. A number of Youtube nomads are out now looking for land to buy. About the only places that will allow you to live in a RV on your own land are in pretty remote places.

There are advantages and disadvantages to everything. There are good and bad things about mobile life just as there are about buying a house, or renting. I lived a good portion of my life on a boat in the San Francisco area, and then in an RV for a while. Today I live in a sticks and bricks. From experience I can tell you that you can be happy or unhappy no matter what you live in. Going from one to another just changes the advantages and disadvantages.

There are advantages and disadvantages also to being a permanent worker or a migrant. I am retired now from being a permanent worker and have a very nice pension along with maximum Social Security , (Bob Wells also retired from a union grocery job and enjoys income from that along with Social Security and his youtube and forum accounts). He got pretty lucky I think being in the right place at the right time for Youtube and this forum with Amazon links, but most people following his advice will not have that and also will not have any other type of retirement income. Many people who were not permanent workers are having a tough time financially in their older age. They may not even have enough paid in contributions to even qualify for Social Security benefits.

The idea of being a free spirit not accountable to anyone else in society is a very risky position to take I think. I would encourage young people to get an education and learn an occupation which pays well serving others. Otherwise in your old age you will not have much of an option of your living conditions. You may be forced into a vehicle, or even a cardboard box. Nobody is going to sign over their pension check to you, even the ones who told you to be a free spirit.

 

[desert_sailing]

You may be forced into a vehicle.

I figured that  was what Bob focuses on. Offering tips to those of minimal means "Live their Best Life" Of course he does show some of the flash that is driving around but I think the purpose of CRVL is to show people they don't have to run the rat race to get a pension or spending their whole lives generating wealth for others.

The trend nowadays is a repudiation of the status quo. Fewer and fewer folks are thinking the 9-5 grind is worth it. The attainment of material things is looked down on by larger and larger swaths of people.. usually non boomers.  It is a new era, many folks can AND do work while mobile. I am one of them.

Folks still need an income of some sort.. whether it is working for someone else or themselves. I don't think many believe their pensions will be what was promised, if they are there at all. On any given day another company or govt entity is cutting pensions. Social Security??..LOL.. Folks are better off in saving as much as possible and reducing expenses.. you don't get there by paying a mortgage and associated sticks and bricks expenses.

The pursuit of money and things is not the priority of most people in this lifestyle.  Its called doing more with less.

I would encourage young people to get a TRADE and take it on the road. Traveling nurse would be a great gig also for this lifestyle.

I am a bit perplexed at why you are even posting here Danny.. I mean I understand its a free world so to speak. But if you aren't living vanlife  why would you then take the effort to come here and dissuade others from this lifestyle?

This forum site is about supporting and advocating the mobile lifestyle. Certainly there is a forum where you could post your 100 reasons of why vanlife is baaaaad.??

Coyotes and wolves frequent here.. not sheep.

 

[DannyB1954]

I am a bit perplexed at why you are even posting here Danny.. I mean I understand its a free world so to speak. But if you aren't living vanlife  why would you then take the effort to come here and dissuade others from this lifestyle?

This forum site is about supporting and advocating the mobile lifestyle. Certainly there is a forum where you could post your 100 reasons of why vanlife is baaaaad.??

Coyotes and wolves frequent here.. not sheep.

I lived the mobile life as I had explained. I still part time. If you do not wish my experience, than ignore it.

Bob's message is not for the young people to get an education. People are not in a rat race because they work for others. They are in the race because of the idea that things will bring happiness, (including the mobile life style). It is far cheaper for me to buy a house in the rural area where I live than it is for me to get in one of my RV's and travel.


There are at least two sides to every story. You only want to hear what the good about mobile living is and have others be quiet about the bad.  Mobile life can be good for some and terrible for others.  You only want people to hear the propaganda that you have fallen for. You are helping others into something that may not be right for them. Some may be far better off taking advantage of social assistance than shivering in a car. A friend of mine lives in a nice two bedroom apartment in Alameda Ca, (very nice town). his rent is $60 a month. I would be happy to live there but I do not qualify as my income is high.

It is not all roses and gravy on the road.

 

[1shemp]

It's true."Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose".Living a hand to mouth existence in a vehicle constantly searching for somewhere to park that the cops or property owners won't run you off has to be a very stressful way to exist.I love my traveling for several months each year but I usually stay in campgrounds on lakes or in the mountains.No way am I going to tolerate having to sneak around to live.Or live in a Walmart parking lot.I understand there are people who have to live this way because of poor life choices.I just don't understand the glamorizing of a desperate way to live.I understand Bob Wells pushing the lifestyle because that's the way he makes a living.As the saying goes"You pays yur money and you takes yur choice".

 

[kygreg]

I don't think Bob talks enough about what comes after boondocking. At some point, we won't physically be able to live this lifestyle anymore, what then? If you don't have a substantial asset, life is going to be very rough, at a time when you need it to be easy.

I always advocate the Mustachian FIRE lifestyle, work hare, spend less, save more so that you can reach FIRE as soon as possible. (Financially independent, retire early) This way at 50+/- years old and you love your job, then fine, nothing lost. But if you yearn for more out of life you can quit and try something different with little risk.

 

[maki2]

On general principle I don't like being preached at so I find something else to watch when people stand up on a soap box.

 

[user 423]

I am a bit perplexed at why you are posting here Danny..  But if you aren't living vanlife  why would you then take the effort to come here and dissuade others from this lifestyle?

If it was made a requirement that you actually be on the road to post on the forum, about 80% of the regular posters wouldn't qualify. DB is just pointing out that mobile life isn't the best option for some. Bob pushes it because it's his product.

 

[Qxxx]

If it was made a requirement that you actually be on the road to post on the forum, about 80% of the regular posters wouldn't qualify. DB is just pointing out that mobile life isn't the best option for some. Bob pushes it because it's his product.

+1. 

From several years of observation of posts to this forum, I'd say maybe only 5% or so are full-timers. Guys like DB1954 have lived several lifetimes, in and out of S&B, and are a fountain of knowledge. People like that can see things from both sides equally well, because they're actually "done" it.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Without all the ants where would all the vans,auto parts,highways and bridges, cool camping gadgets, internet infrastructure, laptops, batteries,solar panels and all the other wonderful things that make this lifestyle possible come from?

Sitting back and enjoying the fruits of labor done by others is not the coolest thing...

Contrary to popular belief, it does not take a government to build a road.  I live on a road my father built with an axe and a shovel in 1954.  Now a bunch of ants enjoy the fruits of HIS labor.

 

[DannyB1954]

Thanks to all that showed support for my position. I think it may make it clearer to say it is not my job to promote anything. I see my goal as informing people who are interested in the ups and downs of it. There are many other options in between paying $2,500 a month in rent and living in a car.

Many older people are financially forced into creative housing. I think Bob serves them well, and I have no problem with his capitol ism. I figure he pulls in 6 to 10 grand a month or more between videos, Amazon links, product endorsements, and charity management. My problem with his message has more to do with young people. His screw the system, be free, only do the things you want to do is not going to bode well for them in the long run. Being a migrant farm worker or Amazon packager, or camp host does not have a great future. By the time their body ages and tells them they can't go on, it is a bit late to get an education and a good job. The education could very well be a trade, (it was for me). Being menial labor will get you a menial future.

 

[Qxxx]

 (Financially independent, retire early) 

I hadn't even realized it, but I'm one of those FIRE Men. Retired back at age 45, with modest savings, plus a modest retirement income that started at 64. And somehow managed to survive for several decades without any other job at all. When you do have an income for all those years early in life, it pays to be frugal, then as well as after retirement. 

Now I live in a very modest S&B, and travel 4 months out of the year. Plus I can look at the local mountains every day, and plan my next trip. I retired to the "high desert", so I'm the real HDQ.

 

[crofter]

Personally I don't seem to fit any of these molds. I was a FIRE but then the gobmt stepped in and confiscated a pile of money. So not really a FIRE anymore. Not a wolf definitely, do not support the pecking order that a wolf pack demands. Maybe a few coyote traits, but I always work and save for my needs, so not really a predator on any system provided by ants. A true predator would eat the ants. I do benefit from ant efforts like co-ops, organized camps, the occasional food bank, paved highways and bridges, manufactured products, occasional electrical grid, cellular grid, manufactured food (especially pizza, doritos, tater tots, and chicken) I make none of these from scratch and enjoy them all.

Thinking of ants, did you know that ants enslave aphids and milk them for food? I observed this in practice on my cactus plant. No idea how they avoided the cactus spines. 
-crofter

 

[crofter]

.... Mobile life is not for everyone. Not everyone will be a Youtube star. Not everyone will have people come to their aid when they have a breakdown. Not everyone will have people help them. Many people are one breakdown away from being homeless because they put all their money into this new dream and when it brakes they lack the resources to get it repaired.....

Thanks for your wisdom, Danny.

I will have to say that my first year dwelling included building resilience that I did not have when I started. I had a rig with abour 200k miles and in need of  a good mechanic. All I ran into were the rip off mechanics during that time, so part of my journey included taking over all the mechanical jobs on the rig and being able to do them in remote areas. As much as mechanical repairs are discussed on here, I did not prepare enough for mechanical repairs before hitting the road.

During the first year dwelling I helped and encouraged someone with mechanical skills. Later that person helped me do some wilderness body work on the old rig that was essential. So I did run into a helpful fellow dweller.

Then after grubbing for more funds in the anthill during the off season, I upgraded to something newer. It is an awesome van, but guess what, is broke down right now, and I will be the one working on it. I did not like the mechanical failures on my early path as a dweller, but I learned some skills there.

What the video in question talks about is developing traits you need as a dweller, and asks the community what those traits would be. One of them is flexibility, which I am calling resilience, being an overcomer.
-crofter

 

[Qxxx]

.. grubbing for more funds in the anthill

Good one, crofter, .

 

[rvwandering]

I don't have the time right now to moderate this thread so I'm closing it. I will open it back up after I get a chance to read the posts more thoroughly.